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Thoughts on Geneforge 4


Death Knight
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While its been a decent while since i tried g4, i gave it a shot with some seriousness and i cannot seem to play it. While it had some nice new features, what came down on it was the fact that you cannot play as a shaper. I feel that while the mimic classes are meh, i cannot bring myself to playing a non-shaper in any geneforge games.

 

I think that it will make sense that if jeff ever does remake it, to allow you play as a shaper. Greta is a shaper and she is an ally, so you should be able to as well.

 

Until then, i will move onto G5.

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You can't play as a Shaper because of the plot. Greta was trained by the Shapers. You're one of the first generation trained by the rebels, who of course reject the terminology of their enemies a bit.

 

If you persevere, you can always work with the Shapers. But no, you can't change the purely cosmetic, never-referenced name of your class.

 

—Alorael, who supposes you could modify the graphics to make the classes suit your tastes. He's just not really sure why you object so strongly to a difference that appears only in the character creation part of the game.

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The only real reason that i object is that while there is only a small difference, i play these games to play as shapers. Now, unless jeff decides to throw in there, (in the future), more classes for the shaper side, i will not and cannot play as a rebel. It just doesnt make sense, cosmetic or not.

 

Even moreso, look at the classes that are different from the shapers. Servile, is just a infiltrator with more health and slight gimped magic, (no difference), shocktrooper, is a guardian that can shape a bit more (no difference really), and the sorceress is a shaper that focuses a bit more on magic and less on shaping ( no difference).

 

If jeff really wanted to make something unique, he could let you play as a regular human that is not created by shapers (trajkov), not being a rebel and instead a human that gets the chance to learn the ways of the shapers. That would be cool. But i doubt jeff will do it, so no worries.

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Originally Posted By: Death Knight
The only real reason that i object is that while there is only a small difference, i play these games to play as shapers. Now, unless jeff decides to throw in there, (in the future), more classes for the shaper side, i will not and cannot play as a rebel. It just doesnt make sense, cosmetic or not.

Even moreso, look at the classes that are different from the shapers. Servile, is just a infiltrator with more health and slight gimped magic, (no difference), shocktrooper, is a guardian that can shape a bit more (no difference really), and the sorceress is a shaper that focuses a bit more on magic and less on shaping ( no difference).

I disagree. I have played with guardians, lifecrafters,sorceress's,infiltrators and a shocktrooper, and I find that my play style is forced to alter with the different classes that you claim match. For instance, when playing as a guardian, I tended towards drayks and alphas that were "bumped up", because I couldn't spare the skill points on shaping. Whearas with my shock trooper, I spent the game using charged creations and a regen aura to back up my lower strength and endurance. I found playing a sorceress was intolerable, because their increased magic did not make up for the loss of shaping that they lost compared to the shaper/lifecrafter.
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Now I'm more confused. G4 requires you, by plot, to be a rebel, albeit briefly. That can't be avoided without completely overhauling the beginning of the game. What you really want is a game that isn't G4, and that just won't happen.

 

I also disagree about the classes. Lifecrafters are shapers, warriors are guardians, and infiltrators are agents, completely. The others are distinctly different, though. Serviles are the reverse of agents, and should rely on weapons primarily and magic secondarily, so they're much better at wading into combat and less reliant on tossing spells and running. Shocktroopers aren't guardians and shouldn't play like them: they're shapers who exchange magic for weapons. I don't like them much, as combat and shaping have less synergy and you benefit more from magic buffs than from another combatant.

 

Sorceresses don't appear in G4, but in G5 it's most helpful to think of them by analogy to agents or guardians. As non-agents, they rely on shaping instead of combat, which means they're likely to have smaller essence reserves but more firepower backing them up. As guardians, they swapped combat for magic. I'm not a sorceress (sorcerous?) expert, but I can see benefits and downsides to them, and playing them like a shaper is bound to be disappointing because that's not what they're good at.

 

—Alorael, who can't see Jeff throwing in Shaper classes because the game runs for a long time on your being a rebel courted by the Shapers. Your choice to defect or not is a big one, and while it could be played in reverse, that would make it a repeat of the previous three games and an unnecessary duplication. Call your lifecrafter a shaper when you go over to the Shapers, but you have to start as a lifecrafter.

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The only thing about it is just me. I played the first 3 games as shapers and although you have to play a rebel, i thought you could pass for a shaper as greta was an agent.

 

Aside from that, if jeff ever did do something new for it, i think it would be cool if you could play as an outsider that becomes a shaper. That would be cool as you would be essentially going like trajkov. It would be much more interesting imo than the rebels. Im not really sure how they would go class wise, i would think jeff could just make them average at everything with 1 class, and let you specialize through going through the game.

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My problem with G4 is that your forced down a linear path even more so than G3. Its always pick Rebel or Shaper and advance to the next area. But what makes it more annoying is that you cant completely dedicate yourself to one side like in G3 you could do nothing but help the shapers destroy the first secret rebel camp entirely and other rebels still trust you. Another annoyance is that you cant even kill Alwan or Greta. G4 lacks the choice that made G1 and G2 so good.

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Originally Posted By: The Draco
But what makes it more annoying is that you cant completely dedicate yourself to one side like in G3 you could do nothing but help the shapers destroy the first secret rebel camp entirely and other rebels still trust you.

You can definitely dedicate yourself to one side or the other without any double-dealing. You'll miss out on some zones and experience that way, but it's fairly easy to do. (And G3 eventually required you to pick one a side as well.)

Quote:
Another annoyance is that you cant even kill Alwan or Greta.

You are forced to kill one or the other in the endgame. Neither death is canonical in G5, but only because Alwan got really, really lucky.

Dikiyoba.
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Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba
Originally Posted By: The Draco
But what makes it more annoying is that you cant completely dedicate yourself to one side like in G3 you could do nothing but help the shapers destroy the first secret rebel camp entirely and other rebels still trust you.

You can definitely dedicate yourself to one side or the other without any double-dealing. You'll miss out on some zones and experience that way, but it's fairly easy to do. (And G3 eventually required you to pick one a side as well.)

Quote:
Another annoyance is that you cant even kill Alwan or Greta.

You are forced to kill one or the other in the endgame. Neither death is canonical in G5, but only because Alwan got really, really lucky.

Dikiyoba.


Even if you dont double deal the end quests for zones are essentially the same. kill/escort caravan, kill/save moseh, kill the monarch, Talk to the drakons at Quessa-Uss which I just finished. None of the main quests seem exclusive to which side you pick. Are there exclusive zones, quests and endings in the final area?
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