Want an honest opinion

[Mr. Blonde]

I just back into the rpg market after some time and want to try a good "old school" rpg that i can enjoy and not rip my hair out in the process ):

 

I tried both avernum 1 and 2 years ago and couldnt even enjoy anything. It was absurdly hard and I couldnt even hit anything, nor survive. Before completely labeling this series as trash, I never actually played avernum3. Is avernum 3 any different than the other 2, because I dont want to condemn the entire series because of the unplayability of the previous.

 

If its not worth it, I might just move on to the 2nd trilogy. Like i said, im not asking for everything, i just want an old school game that i can enjoy. And playing on normal with 3 archers shooting 5 missing arrows at the same target, is far from normal.

[Trenton.]

You can hit in Avernum 3 pretty well at like, level 3 and above. It might be difficult to hit monsters before that because most are above you. The hit chance for Bows and Crossbows are improved as well I believe. I think that Avernum 3 Is a game worth playing. (don't quote me on this >.>)

[Callie]

Melee has a better damage output than archery, so you might want to look into that. What skills are you spending your skill points on?

[Randomizer]

Melee and archery start off slow in being able to hit. Magic works better, but later in the game you run into monsters that are immune or take very little damage from magic.

 

The game works best with a mix of character types, although you can get by without magic except for items.

 

Welcome to Spiderweb Software. Please leave your sanity at the door. It helps when you are looking for arrows for all those archers.

[Micawber]

Archery is fairly useless in Avernum 1-3, and you'd do well to take a cue from the default party which has a mixture of character types. Especially if you don't have a priest to heal yourself, you will die quickly. Each individual character should specialise in 1-2 skills but make sure the party covers everything. Expert players do play with a single character or just one character type for a challenge, but it's not advised until you're already familiar with the game.

 

If you found the first trilogy hard, then you won't find the second trilogy any easier.

[Ishad Nha]

None of the games are that hard per se. However you will need to have a good party line-up and use clever tactics.

I recommend the obvious party of two fighters, one Priest and one Mage.

[Lilith]

Another thing to keep in mind is that all the Avernum games are balanced around the assumption that you'll be using buffs in combat. War Blessing is a powerful spell, and if you have trouble hitting things you should use it.

[Earth]

also haste is your friend.

 

good party is 2 fighters div. touched and elite warrior (maybe with enough priest spells to be able to heal and cure themselves) and 2 spellcasters priest (div. touched and pure spirit) who has access to mage spells too (1-3 levels at start) and mage (dt and natural mage) with access to priest spells (1-3 levels at start) and mage gets tool use too.

[Alorael at Large]

No, that's a second trilogy build. For the first trilogy your traits aren't as overwhelmingly important. Divinely Touched is probably too expensive. Natural Mage is necessary, but I don't think Pure Spirit even appeared until A3 or BoA, and it's not worth having, really.

 

—Alorael, who otherwise agrees. Avernum is when combining mage and priest spells was great. You'd get more energy for your investment and you could sling spells all day.

[Randomizer]

The first trilogy is better with a trait like fast on feet to give a chance for extra actions with fighters.

[Mr. Blonde]

Guys, im doing well with my 3 archers. I currently have one handling traps with fast on feet, one with first aid with EWarrior, and one with potion making that occasionally goes in melee/assassin. Im thinking that i will eventually have them all specialized a bit into first aid to help not having a cleric. Avernum 3 is a load of fun and i cant even believe its related to the first 2 games. Last time i played avernum 1 and 2, my chance to hit first goblins was 45-55% with a 60-75% chance for them to hit me. I could barely hit a thing with melee and ranged. With this game its almost reversed. Im actually hitting them and they have a slightly less chance to hit me. Avernum 3 rocks!

[Alorael at Large]

Glad you're enjoying it!

 

I have a few words of caution, though. Firstly, playing without magic is going to make the game very, very hard. You can add priest spells only, but even that makes the game harder than having mages too. Secondly, First Aid is a terrible skill and you don't want it. Even a minimal investment in priest spells is far better.

 

—Alorael, who still awaits with interest the exploits of your archers' band.

[Thoukydides]

I would just give them Priest spells, even though First Aid was improved between A2 and A3, you can only use it once per day and it although can heal quite a few hit points spells are generally much better.

 

Also were you playing on Easy? On my A1 character with no skills trained, goblins have a pretty low chance to hit. Higher difficulty levels give monsters more hp, damage, hit chance, and possibly dodging. So if you have too much trouble, changing difficulty might help.

 

Like you I much preferred A3's mechanics over the previous games. In A3 the damage formulas are much nicer for the player, so that's one reason why you are finding it easier.

 

What is your fourth character, a melee warrior, or mage? Like Alorael said, if you are playing without Priest spells, that's another reason you were having trouble, a no-priest party is more like a challenge game. Sadly the game sort of punishes you for playing without priests, potions and First Aid just can't compete with healing spells (or bless, or damage spells).

 

Death Knight is right about First Aid being able to heal a lot. So if you really don't want to use spells, you still have a semi-viable healing skill. However, you can cast Healing and Mass Healing as many times as you want as long as you have mana.

[Death Knight]

Not that you should go by this, but ive heard from some people that you can heal 150-200 points of damage in one shot from a major first aid healer. Even a master priest with maxed priest spells cant heal that much on a single character. I would recommend going with multiple characters on first aid skill, that way you can circumvent the wait time.

[Alorael at Large]

When you need to heal a ton of damage at once is combat, and you can't use first aid in combat. You can end it to use first aid, but that uses far more than one action.

 

The other major problem is that First Aid doesn't really do anything but first aid. Priests, on the other hand, give you many useful spells. They can heal. They can cure. They can buff, and you really want their buffs. They can damage nicely, summon, and are one of your more effective tools against the undead and, eventually, demons. First Aid doesn't give you all that.

 

—Alorael, who can also see why the beginning would be hard without casters. You're quite dependent on bolts of fire, ice lances if you have them, and even smite for the first couple of levels. And yes, that means backing out of dungeons to recuperate is helpful.

[Death Knight]

That is true. Ive found that in the beginning, magic is king. Later on however, melee and ranged shine. Ive always had a tough and almost brutal start with both melee and ranged in avernum 1 and 2. Magic always hits, beginning or end. Problem is magic, besides buffing, doesnt do as much damage as melee and ranged down near the end.

[Alorael at Large]

It isn't as flashy, although Arcane Bolt can do a ton of damage when you can cast it. But you still need magic at the end. You need your blessing and haste (oh do you need haste!), and shield doesn't hurt. You need to be able to cure mental effects, poison, and acid. You need a ton of healing. And, sometimes, you need to hit many enemies at once. That's what magic does best.

 

—Alorael, who has never gotten far, even at the end, with a party of fighters not backed up by spells. You can only get so far by buffing with potions before you run out.

[Mr. Blonde]

Ok, Im now level 8 and am really searching for a challenge (:. With my army of 3 archers, i mow down almost anyone that gets in the way with tactics. Ive found that since i have 3 archers all shooting, i can confuse the enemy by splitting into 3 groups. 1 archer goes left, the other right, the last center. That separates the enemy both melee and ranged and i pick them off much easier. Can anyone recommend a challenging area with enemies that dont die in 1 to 2 shots? Im trying to reach 12 before i start doing quests.

[Alorael at Large]

You're supposed to be doing quests from the beginning. A lot of the quests in Upper Avernum are going to be trivially easy for you with a level eight party. But wandering monsters aren't generally the biggest threats. If you want to see how you fare against mid-game enemies, travel to Sharimik and find some troglodytes to pick fights with and see how that goes. Or, closer to home, try buying a boat from New Cotra, sailing all the way north, and heading west through the swamp. That's also a tough early-game fight, and one that gives a reward that's not helpful if you don't use spears.

 

—Alorael, who can keep naming more challenging areas. You should encounter them just fine on your own by playing. Continuing to slaughter the puny is fine if you enjoy it, but you can get to more challenging fights faster by moving through the plot.

[Trenton.]

I don't really think you can reach the slith's spear with the boat. Didn't you have to use the orb of thralni to fly across the water?

[Earth]

mages get (somewhat) good area spell quickly while priests need to wait quite a while.

 

you get more exp on quests than killing low l.evel monsters and also more money prolly too.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Trenton the dragon lord

I don't really think you can reach the slith's spear with the boat. Didn't you have to use the orb of thralni to fly across the water?

You can get there by walking through all those poisoning swamp areas.

[Trenton.]

Wait, which one are we talking about. The one with the sign that says "Warning: swamp" or the one at the very top of upper avernum to the west of the waterfalls?

[Randomizer]

The second one above the waterfall.

 

The first one just has hydras.

[Trenton.]

In exile that swamp you had to use orb of thralni to get to. It's different in avernum?

[Alorael at Large]

Apparently. I have no idea what's there in Exile, but in Avernum you can get the Radiant Slith Spear, which is a fantastic weapon to pick up so early in the game.

 

—Alorael, who supposes flight is also early enough in A3. But no, you can boat there.

[Slarzahl]

I thought you could get there with the boat + hidden passages in Exile. Maybe I'm misremembering, though.

[Ishad Nha]

In A3 you have to have the Orb of Thralni or buy the boat in New Cotra to get the Radiant Slith Spear. It is the weapon found in the NW part of Upper Avernum. At the start of the game it is easier to buy the boat of course.

The Slith and Ogre battles occurring in the NE part, near Erika's Tower, eventually yield a Serendipity Knife.

[Txgangsta]

Mr. Blonde, listen to the avatar with a gun. You were complaining about the game being too hard, and if you go with three archers (who is your 4th guy?) then you're going to lose. I don't even go with 1 primary archer (my priest and mage generally get a few points later in the game). Archers do very little damage later in the game. You need a completely new build or lower the difficulty if you want to win.