Avernum: Plot Problem

[AethirWeb]

So the newest addition to the Avernum games is a rewrite of the first ever Avernum and the ultimate (In my opinion) rewrite of Exile. I played Avernum and Avernum 2, but because of the bad UI and outdated game system and since i started Avernum in the second trilogy i could never understand the story.

 

Could someone tell me the whole main plot of all three games? Like not just simply, "You get casted into avadon, and you find this wizard, and you kill the emperour" just explain some of the steps of what to do. Thanks.

[Alorael at Large]

Why? It's more fun to play the first game without the spoilers. If you still want them, they can be provided, but given how much of the first game is exploration and determining what you need to do to advance your main goals, I'd recommend at least trying it that way.

 

—Alorael, who thinks the same is true for the next two games. You get the gist of the plot from dialogue in A4-6. The specifics are more fun to play through yourself.

[AethirWeb]

Well i played the first, second and a little of the third before. I just couldn't understand the story cause the systems of the game got me confused. I couldn't understand how the story progresses. And the fact Avernum was pretty much give me no clue of where to go at all, i was pretty lost until i got to level twenty and went back to fort Avernum and then was the time i figured it out.

[Harehunter]

I experienced a bit of plot confusion the first play through myself. While the non-linearity of the game allows you to go wherever you want, it does allow you to bypass sections that form the continuity of the story. You have to really pay attention to the dialog to catch the hints of where the next best place to go to.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Not trying to sound superior or anything, but when I first played the original Exiles, I never had to much trouble with understanding the storylines. For months I had just the demos of E1 and E2. Then around late July '98 I was finally able to buy those games. Within a month I had E1 beat and E2 within another.

 

I'm not an expert when it comes to this stuff but I know a little. Maybe you're rushing through trying to get stuff done and loosing track of what people are saying. Slow down, take a breath, and read the dialogue. Things will work out.

 

Post # 591

[Slawbug]

You were also probably used to finding your own way around games, doing some exploring, learning stuff from different people and putting the pieces together yourself. Not that it was brain surgery, but you expected to have to take responsibility for your understanding of the game. That isn't the norm anymore. People expect to be constantly prompted on exactly what they should be doing. It's disquieting.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

I wasn't used to finding my way around games on the scale that Exile involved. I had only played a few Nintendo NES games (mainly the three Mario games). Exile 2: Crystal Souls was the first big computer game I ever played.

 

Post #593

[Harehunter]

The openness of Exile 1,2 allows you to go off exploring areas for which you may not yet be prepared. The east side of the Eastern Gallery is newbie land, but wander too far west and you will encounter the much tougher sliths. Head north to Formello to get your pass to enter The Castle, and there is yet another area to get side-tracked into.

 

Following the leads you get from the dialog, you know to avoid the area west of there until you've made the long trek to the Great Cave and learned some of the core plot points. And don't get distracted by the Mertis Spiral, or the Honeycomb. Not that hard to do, just don't be tempted to explore too far afield.

 

I know this is on the Avernum thread, but what I've said applies to both Avernum 1-3 as well as Exile 1-3.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

That isn't the norm anymore. People expect to be constantly prompted on exactly what they should be doing. It's disquieting.

Kids these days should GTFO your lawn Exile remakes then, Slarty?

[Slawbug]

I still don't understand what's so horrible about wandering somewhere with monsters that are too strong for you right now. It just means you turn around and go someplace else. What's the big deal?

[Randomizer]

I keep telling Jeff that death makes it real easy to balance the game; You die, you went into an area you shouldn't. Hardcore min/max players can keep exploring.

[Tyranicus]

I absolutely agree. The openness of the Avernum trilogy is part of what I love about it so much.

[Trenton.]

Openness? Are you sure about Avernum two? I think the barriers change that a tad bit.

[Randomizer]

After you return from the Vahanatai Lands the game is relatively open. Except for a few stray Empire check points but they go away with passes or killing them.

 

Exile 2 allowed you to farm check points for loot and experience, but Avernum took away that option.

[Trenton.]

And then theres the barriers in footracer province in avernum 3 seperating you from the alien beasts, so the games are open fully at the begin except for those exceptions, and those open after a bit of playing.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

I still don't understand what's so horrible about wandering somewhere with monsters that are too strong for you right now. It just means you turn around and go someplace else. What's the big deal?

when one can reach an area but cannot make progress in it due to difficulty, one cannot help but feel as if something of a bait-and-switch has been pulled upon one. one has got one's hopes up to explore a new location and finds it to be impossible. it's frustrating

[Slawbug]

Huh. I've never thought of it that way.

 

That's interesting. I guess, I see how it could feel that way to somebody. But it seems to me that this is again a function of what you're used to. If you're used to being led by the nose to the appropriately difficult area, then I guess this would seem that way. For me, having grown up on games that involved more freedom of exploration, I don't expect that.

 

EDIT: On second thought, how is this any different from when you find a secret door, get your hopes up to explore it, only to discover a lock/trap/magic barrier that you aren't yet able to pass? It's the same deal, you have to come back later. Is that different?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

That's interesting. I guess, I see how it could feel that way to somebody. But it seems to me that this is again a function of what you're used to. If you're used to being led by the nose to the appropriately difficult area, then I guess this would seem that way. For me, having grown up on games that involved more freedom of exploration, I don't expect that.

EDIT: On second thought, how is this any different from when you find a secret door, get your hopes up to explore it, only to discover a lock/trap/magic barrier that you aren't yet able to pass? It's the same deal, you have to come back later. Is that different?

to be honest i personally don't like it when that sort of thing happens either. stuff like the rune doors in avadon really got my goat because i don't like having to keep notes on what to go back to so that i can see the stuff i missed the first time around. it just feels like padding to make the game waste my time running back and forth from place to place

if part of the appeal of a game is that it's based around free exploration, then it shouldn't include lots of unexpected barriers to that exploration. if you must block the player's way to an area for whatever reason, at least put the locked door right at the entrance to the area so that it doesn't get sprung on them out of nowhere, and so that once they find the key they're rewarded with a significant opportunity for exploration instead of a little room that's annoying when you can't get into it but unsatisfying when you can

corollary: exploration-based games should probably be designed to be fairly easy. one of the reasons i like the might and magic series is that while you can get killed out of nowhere, it's actually not very difficult to find temporary stat-boosting fountains and items that will allow you to take on all but the absolute toughest of areas. for example, it's quite feasible to finish might and magic 2 with a party at level 20, even though the maximum level is 255. so there's rarely a point at which you have to spend half the game levelling up just so you can explore the cool new area you just discovered

see also the ultima series, whose better instalments have very easy combat for the most part

[Harehunter]

Quote:

I still don't understand what's so horrible about wandering somewhere with monsters that are too strong for you right now. It just means you turn around and go someplace else. What's the big deal?

Actually, Slarty, I agree with you 100%. It was a bit disconcerting at first, but like you say, just restore a bit, and don't go there. It just was a new experience for me in rpg, but once known, it was easy to go back and follow the advice of the npc's that you had talked to.

And then there's our good friend Nicoduas in Avernum 4. Getting to him is not too hard if you have mostly completed the Eastern Gallery, but killing him at this time is out of the question. However, you can still gain emerald armor from him early if just run past him and keep running! So what you have here is one of those "don't go there now" moments combined with "well I'm here now, let's do it now" opportunities.

[Skwish-E]

My guys used to use the imagined spell "reverse time" just as they died. Here's how it works: You save the game before going into a potentially dangerous area, then if you die, reverse time to before you entered (reload), then use different tactics, or don't go there yet. When I started playing my first SW game (Avernum 4 on Normal), if took me a death or two to figure this out, then I managed to bumble through, learning as I went.

[Harehunter]

The trick of course is to not overwrite your last saved game where you were safe!

[Trenton.]

Yes, If charging all in with tons of blesses and swinging swords while spinning in circles dont work, then try lobbing a few powerful multi target spell for numbers, and power spell for the big boys.

[Micawber]

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.

Yes, If charging all in with tons of blesses and swinging swords in circles in spinning dont work,

 

It always works (in the first trilogy).

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

And then there's our good friend Nicoduas in Avernum 4. Getting to him is not too hard if you have mostly completed the Eastern Gallery, but killing him at this time is out of the question.

anything's possible if you're stubborn enough

[Randomizer]

I found having lots of instant undead friends helps.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

And then there's our good friend Nicoduas in Avernum 4. Getting to him is not too hard if you have mostly completed the Eastern Gallery, but killing him at this time is out of the question.

I Killed him, it took seventeen reloads though, The trick is to limit the amount of damage you do before the turn in which he drinks healing elixir comes, If you haven't done enough damage by then, then he won't drink the elixir at all.After that it's just hack and slash.

[Harehunter]

Interesting trick. Do you remember the average level of your party at that time?

 

I had just waited until I had completed a few more quests, leveled up a bit more, and then came back and deal with him later. I noted on my walkthrough for A4 that I needed to get to level 30 to do the job.

[Slawbug]

He can definitely be dealt with way earlier than level 30, even on Torment. Also, I think it's Nociduas, not Nicoduas.

[Harehunter]

Quote:

Also, I think it's Nociduas, not Nicoduas.

Quite right; thanks for pointing that out. My walkthrough notes had him spelled both ways, but it is corrected now.

As for the level 30 business, I think that was probably because I had gone aquesting longer than necessary. It just happened that that was the level I was when I finally got around to him again. Also, I didn't know the little trick about his healing potion turn. I just tried to take him out hard and fast so that he was dead before that time. Brute force and ignorance does not replace finesse. What would you say is a more realistic level? About 20?

[Slawbug]

If you look in the A4-6 forum, the old threads on him may still be around. I remember him as being the single most discussed battle of A4.

[Randomizer]

You can deal with him at the end of the Eastern Gallery as the last combat before going on to Mertis. It isn't easy so most players come back later.

[Harehunter]

Thanks for the tip. I did a bit of searching and found that the most common level for this task was about 30 or more. I did not find any reference to a level below that, but there were other references to getting the emerald armor without having to kill him.

[Slawbug]

Thuryl beat him at level 17 on Torment here:

http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=142356#Post142356

 

A user from Brazil beat him at level 14-17 on Tricky, albeit with 3 invulnerability potions used, here:

http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=140736#Post140736

 

I did it at an unspecified level (maybe around 28-32 based on the Almaria reference?), but importantly, that was with a singleton and on Torment -- here:

http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75097#Post75097

 

In contrast, I could only find one thread that ever listed levels above 30.

http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=192550

[Randomizer]

My singleton games were levels 23 to 25 on torment. I don't remember what it was for a party of 4 but it would have been much lower.

[Harehunter]

Thanks guys, I'll make the note change on my walkthrough.