Help on fighting mages in A5

[Death Knight]

Im having a lot of trouble just fighting the regular mages in avernum 5 near hrickis layer. The apprentices are even beating me using cheap tactics, slowing my character when he has haste. My archer/priest character should be killing these weaklings in almost no shots. Why do mages of all people, have such obscene life? It makes no sense.

[Randomizer]

Try spray acid and daze so they don't get to do much but suck up damage.

 

Also don't forget battle discipline to weaken the apprentice resistance to damage.

[Death Knight]

I cant cast acid spray and daze, im a priest. I dont have any wizard spells. I do have haste potions but he slows me down and gets to attack me twice with firebolts, summoning monsters to swarm me. This is even harder than geneforge 1, which is hard to imagine almost.

 

Edit-I use battle discipline but i dont do enough damage. I have 10 bow skill, 5 sharpshooter skill, bless, protection and haste and still so hard. The difficulty change didnt make a difference either. Normal is the same as easy it seems.

[Death Knight]

Im sorry if i wasnt clear before. I want to solo this game or a avernum game, even if its on easy. Ive always wanted to do it. The only ones i could possibly want to do it for would be 4, 5 or 6 as the older ones are a little too retro. I beat avernum 4, but still really wanted to solo one of these games. Would 4 be any more "forgiving" than 5?

[Randomizer]

Oh for that type of solo the best thing you can do if you have summon shade is get 2 friends, then buff the group, and go after the apprentice. It is a hard fight and I can't remember what I did there. I might have used terror wands.

 

Avernum 4 is forgiving until you reach Nociduas at the end of the Eastern Gallery. That fight always got to me when I got locked into a stun loop.

[Erebus the Black]

Did you summon the friendly scuttlers?

To do that you need to read the book at the beginning of the trap, have a whip, and ring the gong near a scutler's pit.

[Harehunter]

Quote:

I cant cast acid spray and daze, im a priest. I dont have any wizard spells.

This is why in a 4 PC group I always train mage to my priest and train priest to my mage. That way if one of my PC's becomes disabled, slowed, charmed or such, I have the other one to bail him out.

Unfortunately, for your case, I have no advice for a solo game; not even a twosome. I can only wish you good luck.

[Death Knight]

Even though the odds are against me, i still have 1 advantage that a party of four doesnt have. That is that i can level farm my character with side quests until he is more than able to go against a normally impossible opponent. This char gains exp extremely fast, ill come back when im ready. I did this in baldurs gate 1 and it worked, it might just work here too.

[Harehunter]

That is indeed the one big advantage. I'm guessing that you are going with a shaman (fighter/priest). What race and traits are you using. I'm thinking that a Slith, Divinely Touched and Natural Mage would be a good combination. (With a singleton, who cares what the XP penalty is.) Slith would give good combat skill bonuses. NM would allow you to wear heavier armor without interfering with using mage spells as well as giving its share of bonuses. What does Divinely Touch do besides giving points in Blademaster, Magery and Sharpshooter?

[Death Knight]

I am a human with tough hide trait and deadeye. While normally tough hide wouldnt be that great, however, since im the only character i need to be able to take as many hits as possible. Deadeye is good to get some extra firepower. Fast on feet is almost useless for this character, which i why i wouldnt take it. An extra 1 or 2 ap occasionally isnt much help when you will be getting swarmed. I use bows as my weapon with priest spells, healing and buffing to keep me alive.

 

The only real problem i have so far is mages. They are seriously some of the biggest bastards the game has to offer. I just beat hrickis with a few tries. However, when i went again to his apprentice, he destroyed me and i cannot beat him. That makes almost no sense but at this point im used to it.

[Death Knight]

Starting to wonder if hardiness is not so bad. It essentially gives more resistance than luck at a lower cost. Though luck helps with dodging. Im going to need some sort of protection from elements with these crazy mages. The only problem so far is magic and the lack of good bows.

[Mea Tulpa]

Luck is overpriced in A5 and not a great buy. Hardiness is great when it's cheap and not so great later on.

[Death Knight]

Just finished fighting the first group of thug assassins. Had to retry a few times, but it wasnt too hard. They all didnt do much damage to me, but it was still 3 melee and 1 ranged vs. 1 ranged. What i pick for battle disciplines really determines if i survive. A5 is definitely more melee and mage friendly. As you can now attack for 1 ap, melee can get much closer to archers and swarm them. In a4, the nephils would own me (with a party), half the time. I dont know which i like better.

[Earth]

priest "bit" sux on damage spells wise until gets access to area attack spells, mage has access to fireball at beginning and soon gets access to lightning strike and icy rain.

[Randomizer]

Terrain is very important versus swarms. Single person width corridors and corners help here in limiting melee attackers.

 

When you go down river to the Drake Pillars it gets hard with lots of archers and open terrain.

[Death Knight]

Well thats that then. After not being able to fight against the basic gang numbers, I have concluded that soloing the game with ranged combat in a5 is impossible. I will try my luck with a4, maybe it might be easier.

[Death Knight]

Ive decided that since bows just dont do enough damage to be considered enough, i think im going to try something i havent really seen too much of. A Melee/Ranged Throwing weapons hybrid. While Bows have some power, throwing weapons power is almost too good. I will have minor priest spells up to the point where i can summon a shade or two. Other than that, all will be spent on throwing, with melee not too far behind. I will pick deadeye for a trait and this time, forget about the defensive traits and pick nimble fingers, something that can save me a lot of points in tool use. I think i might try this solo on a4 as avernum 4 might be easier for ranged. Does anyone know of any ranged weapons that replenish quantity or something along those lines? Hopefully they never totall run out of javelins otherwise im screwed.

[Death Knight]

Does anyone know the actual amount of levels (of damage) you get from the bless spell. I want to know this so i can maximize damage. After dividing the max by the min, 1-4 and 1-5 are the ones i need. Whereas 1-3 is manageable, 1-2 gives almost nothing.

[Earth]

doubt you ran out of basic javelins unless your char's aiming is crappy.

 

some levels on mage wouldn't hurt.

[Death Knight]

Has anyone been able to get a number or percentage on how much war blessing increases damage for A4? I know it is 25% in a5, but im not sure if it is that in a4 or if it is just 4 number sets.

[Randomizer]

I think bless was a flat 4 extra levels of damage. Jeff went away from percentages.

[Death Knight]

Hmm.. I just got something with fatigue removal. Does anyone know how that works? It says plus a number. How did jeff work fatigue removal out in avernum 5? Does it go away until you go over the amount that it adds. So if it says +10, would the fatigue go away until you use something more than 10+ in that combat scenario.

[Randomizer]

Each fatigue removal item has a percentage chance of removing 1 fatigue round and blademaster skill has a 5% chance per level of blademaster. So you can see fatigue drop more than 1 per round.

[Earth]

on 1 battle fatigue removals are needed due char (chars if has more than 1) get high fatigue on 1st turn.

[Death Knight]

Im not sure if this was stated, but do natural mage and pure spirit traits increase your magic level skill when you progress. I read that natural warrior, dead eye and divine do so, but im not sure if the others do.

[Lilith]

They sure do. You get extra points in Mage Spells or Priest Spells every 6th level.

[Death Knight]

Cool, thanks for that. I wasnt sure.

[Death Knight]

This is a hidden stats question: Are there any hidden exploitable stats that you dont normally know about for ranged weapons in A4. I know that blademaster gives a parry bonus, which is really helpful. Does sharpshooter or bows/throwing get any hidden bonuses. Melee already gets quick action, quick strike, blademaster. I know i shouldnt keep bugging you guys with questions so I am sorry.

[Lilith]

Nope. A point in Sharpshooter is pretty much the same as a point in both Bows and Thrown except without the bonuses to battle disciplines, making it a pretty disappointing skill.

[Mea Tulpa]

Blademaster does not give a Parry bonus.

[Death Knight]

i gotta say, i dont know how you guys solo these games on torment. I can barely get past anything on easy!! Is there anything im doing wrong. I am playing avernum 4 and it is just brutal.

 

I am a bow/priest character. i read a faq about someone who used a priest/ranged attack user and i cant seem to get it to work. There are no bows to be found that are good. The slimes are impossible. I should probably just give up on soloing any of these games. They are way too hard. I tried each of the second trilogies 4 and 5 (except 6) and i cant seem to last at all. such a downer.

[Earth]

bows just suck. poler or meleer is much better not forgetting having mage-skills.

 

its called minmaxing, there's been some kind of guides how to play on torment.

[Death Knight]

So there have been people that have beaten the whole a4 with just melee and priest spells? Thats insane. Im probably better off just playing a5, bows are probably better there cause of battle disciplines.

[Mea Tulpa]

Playing the games solo basically requires having a near-complete understanding of the game's tactics. This doesn't mean perfect, but it means you can exploit all the opportunities the game gives you to get an advantage. Using skill points wisely is part of that, but so are tactics for sniping and separating enemies, using terrain and summons to your advantage, and importantly, general combat tactics. It's relatively easy to give advice on skills and traits over the web; the other specific topics are doable depending on how willing the audience is to challenge their assumptions; but general combat tactics are harder. e.g., on Torment you won't kill anything in one hit, but that shouldn't be your strategy in the first place.

 

Bows are actually much worse in A5, because melee and magic both improve, and Blademaster gains relevance, while a few bows get worse -- including, most importantly, the Heartstriker.

[Randomizer]

On torment it's lots of reloads while you figure out tactics. How to fight a swarm by luring out just one at a time. When to fully buff going into an area so you can maximize damage and defense.

 

A4 is tough because that first trip to Fort Draco means fighting lots of nephil archers. Having enough health to outlast a few bow shots while you take them out is hard. I found you have to creep up on groups and then retreat before you get overwhelmed.

 

It was easier using a mage with daze. At least you could exercise some crowd control before you get control foe.

[Mivayan]

I find parry invaluable on torment in A4 for a singleton. I used both elite warrior for the parry bonus and put 6 points in manually by lvl 10 (then nothing more). Half the attacks miss and the rest do way less (half? even less?) damage.

 

This works well with long fights where you use the acid spell/bow on all the foes... repeatedly... till they die. Not much help against mages though.

 

elite warrior / divinely touched / nephil dont really need points in melee or missiles to hit the foes. If I remember right, haven't played in a while.

[Trenton.]

Acid bow? you mean to tell me that theres a bow that does acid damage?

[Earth]

yes there is but its non-acid damage is crap and acid damage is crappy too, I always equipped it to my 2nd fighter.

[Harehunter]

It's call a Bow of Decay. You get it in Fort Saffron for completing a quest for the commander.

[Mivayan]

Crap damage but the acid adds up over time. And well, some foes hurt to attack in melee.

[Harehunter]

Acid wears off over time, with each round inflicting less damage than the round before. What I am unsure of is this: are multiple attacks with acid cumulative or is it based solely on the last attack? When it comes around to calculate the damage by acid, does each application get calculated separately, or does it combine the percent damage factor of each application, or does it just throw out the old factors and replace them with the most recent attack?

[Mea Tulpa]

Acid is applied as a status effect. Just like bless or haste, you have X levels of acid. Normally this is zero, and when hit with an attack that does ancillary acid damage, you get some number of levels. Often, this is 1 level per damage die of the attack, or 1d2 per die, etc. This is an ADDITIVE effect so if you already have acid on you, you'll just get more.

 

Each round when acid damage is applied, you take a certain amount of damage per level. However, this damage is capped and it is not hard to reach the cap in 1 or 2 strong attacks that apply acid. Then your levels of acid are reduced.

 

So layering acid tends to increase duration more than damage. However, since casting an acid spell over and over will not actually make the acid last quite that long, I suspect the natural decrease in acid levels involves division and not just subtraction.

 

Poison works exactly the same way, but the cap, damage per level, and decrease per round may all be different.

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Mivayan

Crap damage but the acid adds up over time. And well, some foes hurt to attack in melee.

that's why char who had bow of decay (or that stun bow) had secondary bow in backpack which was equipped after 1st or 2nd round.

[Harehunter]

Thanks Slarty, that is what I thought. This is why I appreciate your work in understanding the mechanics of the game. It has value.