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The coming Avernum rewrites


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I honestly expect the graphics to be of Blades of Avernum style/quality, maybe a little better. I just don't think Avadon/Geneforge/Avernum 4+ has the library to pull off a proper Avernum game without it turning into a tidal wave of colorshifts and recycling.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's okay to use those techniques to an extent, but if you're going to make Grah-hoth a slightly tinted Haakai and nothing more... Yeah, I'll live without the walking animations.

 

I'unno, the -last- game Spiderweb did this with didn't have much of a graphics upgrade at all I feel (Nethergate), but we'll all just have to see.

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Has he now?

 

Can't say I'm thrilled. If he's willing to spend the extra money for enough graphics to make things work then alright, but if we end up fighting umteen different flavors of progressively angry rats like in A4...

 

Then again, with the whole iPad issue, I'm seeing why. Avadon is a proven system already compatible, and the larger graphics work better on the tiny tiny medium. It could work, though.

 

Originally Posted By: goblindolf

I guess he would be using the A6 engine but he did say outdoors was staying in the trilogy remake so whatever he is using he would be modifying it to add that.

 

As long as this statement proves true, and the investment is made to diversify the bestiary enough, I'll be happy with the remakes. Sure, it might be a detriment that all of Spiderweb's games are starting to look alike, but Avernum is still the original, quintessential indie RPG, even if it does raid Avadon's wardrobe.

 

And... honestly, I'm not totally against graphical color-shifts for some things. Having the Flaming, Oozing, and Icy blade all the appropriate color was nice, for instance. Just don't rely on them is all I ask.

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From what Jeff has said in emails testing the new Avernum 6, the Avernum remake is starting with that game engine version to run on the newest Apple computers. Whether he goes and generates the extra graphics so we can have walking animations is unknown. But I doubt he wants to release two games in a row with limit character graphics when he still has all of them from Avernum.

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Blades of Avernum style/quality would scarcely qualify as a graphical update. BoA uses the same engine as the previous Avernum games, just with some new graphics relative to A1/2. I'm not necessarily saying a viewpoint of "if ain't broke, don't fix it" regarding graphics and such is wrong, but that's clearly not the viewpoint that motivates a remake of an old game.

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As Necris Omega says, though, the Nethergate re-release used the Avernum engine, which was honed through BoA and the original trilogy but was still the same engine of the original game. And the graphics were identical. So there's some reason to do those kinds of "remakes." That's just not what Jeff has said he's doing.

 

—Alorael, who is grateful to get minimal changes and code that will play nice with modern hardware and operating systems. In fact, he'd be happiest of the remake coincided with a re-release of the originals in the same playable form.

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Yeah, Nethergate: Resurrection... I could barely tell the difference between it and the original, if there was even one to be told. Nethergate was the one Spiderweb title I never went out and got for myself, so maybe the difference would have been more noticeable if I'd played more than just the demo of the first iteration.

 

Honestly? I don't know what to expect. Yeah, the LAST time Jeff "remade" a game, AkA Nethergate, the results were less than mind blowing. However, if you go back to the last time he "remade" the EXILE series... There was a rather epic difference between Exile and Avernum, no?

 

I'm honestly hoping this remake is more of that caliber, and, in truth, more a matter of mechanics, features, and additional content rather than putting another half-layer of graphic polish on things ala Geneforge styling, hammering the underlying code to fit with Apple's latest nonsense, and calling it a day.

 

Oh well. I'm excited either way. I love all the original Avernum games, I... Hm. Actually, that raises yet another question - do these remakes ALSO apply to Blades of Avernum eventually?

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Well a lot has changed since Avernum 1:

 

Spells now are levels of power rather than different versions

Action points are different

No more wait command in battle

Spells have area effects instead of multiple targets so we should be able to use more than cloud of blades against invisible monsters

Dual wielding is back from Exile

We now get battle disciplines

Caches didn't appear until Avernum 3

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Originally Posted By: Necris Omega
Actually, that raises yet another question - do these remakes ALSO apply to Blades of Avernum eventually?

No. Jeff said no more Blades games. BoA took too long to make and didn't sell well. (Besides, if Jeff has trouble with getting enough graphics for his recent games, then scenario designers would have even more difficulty. That's on top of the over-complicated coding that BoA had and any future Blades would therefore also have. It would be impractical, to say the least.)

Dikiyoba.
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Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

No. Jeff said no more Blades games. BoA took too long to make and didn't sell well. (Besides, if Jeff has trouble with getting enough graphics for his recent games, then scenario designers would have even more difficulty. That's on top of the over-complicated coding that BoA had and any future Blades would therefore also have. It would be impractical, to say the least.)

Dikiyoba.


Can't say I'm particularly surprised.

I personally was NEVER able to get into BoA all that much. Looking at the disparity of content between BoA and BoE, it's crystal clear I wasn't the only one. I can sort of see why, I suppose...

From a graphics standpoint, Avernum is in a whole other class of complexity compared to Exile. There you just needed 2 graphics for every monster. Avernum demands 10 minimum, up to 22 for each monster if you're going to make every facing unique and give the creature sitting and "town" graphics. Terrain, walls, floors, and placeables, demands close adherence to templates to fit the isometric design, and that can bugger off, and the whole thing can just be plain tedious.

That's without even looking at the coding and design of an Avernum scenario, something I could never be bothered to do either...

Originally Posted By: Erasmus
Originally Posted By: FnordCola
"if ain't broke, don't fix it" .

Oh, but it is broken, so very broken (and not graphic-wise)... frown


Yeah.

When a Mac focused developer's flagship series won't fly on the latest and greatest Mac platform, there's a problem...

The mechanics, graphics, and front end of Avernum's just fine in my nostalgia drenched opinion, but it's a sports car with a frozen engine at this stage.
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Yep. Running old Spiderweb games on Mac is easiest with CrossOver/Darwine, and that's a shame.

 

—Alorael, who thinks the huge difference between the original Nethergate and the new one is levels. The original didn't have levels, just skill points gained at experience point intervals.

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Originally Posted By: Department of Departments
Yep. Running old Spiderweb games on Mac is easiest with CrossOver/Darwine, and that's a shame.

—Alorael, who thinks the huge difference between the original Nethergate and the new one is levels. The original didn't have levels, just skill points gained at experience point intervals.

The spells change quite a bit too.
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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the discount was very canny. Some old customers will no doubt think "I've already played/bought this game once/twice. Do I really want to pay for this again?" Even a nominal discount will make players feel appreciated and significantly more likely to make the purchase, I'd wager.

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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
I think the discount was very canny. Some old customers will no doubt think "I've already played/bought this game once/twice. Do I really want to pay for this again?" Even a nominal discount will make players feel appreciated and significantly more likely to make the purchase, I'd wager.


I'll end up buying it eventually even without a discount, but Slarty does bring up something that I don't recall being said before. A lot of us older members who have played all (or in my case nearly all) of Jeff's games are kinda played out with the remakes. I mean its nice to have the new graphics and better playability, but the storyline is gonna be exactly as the first two!
I know that this is to get the games to where they are bigger and better than before, but this seems to only really appeal to most of the newer members who view the first trilogy as obsolete.
Like I said before, I'll probably end up buying it when I can afford it, but I doubt that I'll get much play time out of it. I've been a big supporter of Spiderweb Software for 13 years now.
Am I saying Jeff shouldn't remake Avernum...absolutely not. I'm just giving my own prospective of the situation. A situation held by several others on the forums. But like I said earlier, the remakes will be more for the newer members than for the older ones.

Post #565 cool
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The Avernum remakes will have some new content just like all the other remakes. It's just that over 90% will be the same. Some new dungeons and new quests will be there. Jeff will probably add caches and now with area effect spells it will be easier to fight guardians and black shades. smile

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I know that there's gonna be some new stuff not seen in Avernum or Exile, but there are gonna be quite a few people who might be turned off paying 100% for a game only to see a brand new 10% inside the game.

 

P.S. This is my first post from my brand new laptop. I'm currently sitting in the dinner area of a BP gas station using their WIFI service.

 

Post #566 cool

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Originally Posted By: Spider Climb
There will be some, but remember, A1-3 sold just fine after E1-3.

—Alorael, who would have no objections to paying again. He likes Avernum. He replays Avernum. And he'd enjoy playing it again with a shiny new engine, too.


I will too, I was talking about the maybe 5 or 6 others who might not.

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires
yea it was bit pia to do quests w/o quest book, I read from walkthrough when I got quest object that who wanted it and where he/she is.


I played Exile 1 and 2 demos without a hintbook without a problem. A hintbook does make playing easier, but I don't think you need to use it for every single quest though. Search for a little bit, try to do a few without the hintbook you'll feel more rewarded about yourself.

Post #567
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Is there any news about when it will be released? The newspost suggested it would be released within just a few months of the newspost, which was back in March.

 

I'm very interested in seeing this renewed update. I've been wanting an excuse to replay the Avernum games for a bit but didn't want to just completely retread everything. A new form to play it in would help refresh the experience.

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The things I would like to see is first trilogy with second trilogy graphics quality option, Avernum multiplayer, and customizable spells.

 

Hmm, but generally multiplayer + turn based game = fail.

 

Avernum as a 3D, realtime multiplayer game then? But that would mean players would only be able to control 1 person, and I don't think many people would want to be priest, because they don't get to do much other than support others.

 

So THEN you would have to change the EXP system, and probably the storyline, and what if somebody made a customizable spell that summoned creatures capable of creating more of themselves? (Same way arcane summon can summon elder arenas, and they can cast arcane summon)

THEN there would be server costs, and loads of lag, complicated spell aiming system, etc, etc, etc. DUMB IDEA. So actually, how about just the first two wishes?

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Originally Posted By: goblindolf

I would like to see him get rid of the damage cap, which I really disliked, where you could waste skill points on skills which you expected to increase your damage, just to find you had hit a damage cap.

Wait, there's s damage cap? So that's why I can one hit kill alien beasts... I keep on leveling up things like melee weapons, assasination, blademaster, but nobody said there was a damage limit. D: Time to increase endurance/hardiness then, so I can replace my armour with lighter clothing, and cast spells. (Actually, since I use xian armour on one character, just a bit more poison resistance.)
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This might have already been mentioned, not sure.

 

My request would be for just a lot more character customization - both insofar as look, and in more skills / stats / stuff to adjust / equipment / etc.

 

I have only played Exiles II in the past, and just got the first trilogy. Very much miss this style of RPG and am having a blast, but characters are fairly limited.

 

I would kill to see some type of "make your own spells or abilities" functionality as well. I play HERO and love getting to tinker with the "inner workings" of things; like making your own spells in Oblivion, etc.

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Originally Posted By: Skwish-E
Avernum as 3d multiplayer realtime game?... I would never play. Turn-based RPG allows me to use my slow, old-man brain. And I can play offline.

 

Yeah, turn based RPG's for the win for me. I do like the 3D games - Oblivion and Fallout 3 were great. Diablo series and similar games have their charms as well.

 

But turn based, I can play on my own time, can walk away as I need, etc.

 

Missing Exiles and the old SSI D&D games is what lead me back here to get the Trilogy.

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Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg
Originally Posted By: The Mystic
... and it'll still need to be beta tested before it gets released.


Put me down for that. I've been playing for years, but I've never beta-tested before. I really want a hand in that.

Post #572 cool

You have to apply when Jeff posts a notice and form in the What New page of his site. Then you have to wait and wait to see if you get an acceptance notice.
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