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Ideal party?


nikki.

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Apologies if this has cropped up before - I did a search, but didn't want to go dipping in and out of threads too much in case I spoiled something in the game for myself.

 

Anyway, I'm at the point were I need to return to the Kva to do the Ogre Raiders quest, but before heading off I decided to try Hand Callan's quest to go down into the dungeons again. I figured that, since I'd always used the same party (my sorceress, a blademaster and a shadowwalker) I may as well attempt to try the other two characters. At first I tried taking the other sorceress and my blademaster, but she was doing far fewer points of damage than my main PC, despite having reasonably similiar equipment/training. Probably will not be taking her out on any more missions, unless their is one that is obviously geared towards magic users.

 

Next, I substituted her for the shaman, but she was doing half the amount of damage that the other PCs were doing, and the even her "unique" healing spell didn't seem that great, considering with scarabs, you can easily get the other two PCs you're working with their own healing skill. I guess the summoning is nice, but on Normal difficulty I haven't really felt the need to use it.

 

So, did I already stumble on the ideal setup (sorceress, shadowwalker, blademaster), and if so, is there ever any point in taking the other two people out with me? It seems a shame that I won't ever have an opportunity to use the other two (apart from on their own missions).

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One of them. The board split largely between people who play blademaster, shadowwalker, shaman, and those who play blademaster, shadowwalker, sorceress. I'm in the shaman camp, because the healing does become useful later, and the poison cloud is a pretty nice attack. You're right about the summoning being mostly useless, though.

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The shaman is actually very good offensively if you don't invest too much in the right branch. It's true that her default attack isn't as good as a firebolt (though it does cleave occasionally), but Spirit Charge, Acid Shower, and Call the Winds/Storm are all very nice.

 

There is at least one place in the game,

 

Click to reveal..
Moritz'kri's tower,

 

where a high proportion of enemies are immune to the shaman's main attacks, so it's better to take a sorceress.

 

I actually played a lot of the game with sorceress, shaman, blademaster. I know it's not considered ideal, and probably wouldn't work on Torment, but it's fun to watch large groups of enemies basically melt in one turn.

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I mostly find summoning useful as a distraction, especially if you're only summoning wolves. They don't do that much damage, but they can take damage instead of your PCs and set up Shadowalkers for backstab. When you get Hellhounds and Salamanders, they can get in two uses of their fire-breath, which makes them do half-decent damage. If you are fighting enemy spellcasters, using an assault crystal on your party plus multiple summons can reflect a lot of damage back too.

 

I'm not sure if there is one ideal party for every major quest. Depending on the quest, I'll use Shadowalker/Shadowalker/Sorceress, Shadowalker/Blademaster/Sorceress, or Shadlwaker/Blademaster/Shaman. I did find Shadowalker/Shaman/Sorceress to be more difficult, and Shadowalker/Shadowalker/Shaman to suffer from having no decent crowd control options (though I haven't tried the Stunning flash powder).

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It does depend upon what you are fighting. Also whether you are maximizing the left attack column or right buffing/healing column.

 

Angevine's Tower has the golems that only take physical and acid damage so a sorceress and shaman aren't as effective.

 

Spiridon has higher damage blocking to physical than his other resistances.

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I haven't really been focusing on either the left or the right column, except with Nathalie because I wanted her to have the top-tier attack spell. For everybody else, meaning the three characters I've used for everything, I've focused on getting all of the level 1 abilities, and then started bringing up the lower skills to get the level 3 abilities.

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I played a pretty irregular party, apparently, going with a shadowwalker, Jennell, and Nathalie for most of the game. (I swapped in Sevilin a few times when a tank/buff-user seemed especially effective, and literally only used Shima for his sidequest and the Redbeard fight.) I found this worked pretty well, and in particular the shaman and sorceress sync up better than I expected them to. Having a shaman along makes a sorceress perform much better, both because the sorceress is the only class without natural healing, and because of spirit charge. The latter ability is about as powerful as most of the sorceress's area attacks, though it has a longer cooldown, but more importantly it's one of the very few attacks that causes vulnerability curse. A blanket +20% to all sorceress damage on enemies in a substantial area is really nice. So nice that I occasionally had Jenell use spirit charge on energy-immune enemies, since between her and Nathalie (as well as some of the attack magic scarabs), the curse would often add a turn or more's worth of damage even without any damage from spirit charge.

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I'll concur on spirit charge being very useful. That vulnerability curse kicks in as you ramp up the skill. The pets are, indeed, great as cannon fodder and to assist with backstab. A melee-oriented shadowwalker deals out incredible damage later in the game. I like to play a shadowwalker and have the option of two shadowwalkers--one melee and one flinging acid and handfuls of razordisks. Very nice.

 

Give the heal yourself scarab to the sorceress. That's a handy ability for everyone, and she's the only one missing it. The sorceress will eventually develop tremendous resistances. Until then, let her "heal thyself".

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I played a shaman on my first runthrough, and brought the blademaster and shadowwalker with me on most missions. My second runthrough, I played a shadowwalker, and used the blademaster and sorceress.

 

The second runthrough was much, much easier. I'm sure this is partly due to realizing just how vital dexterity is in this game, so my choices were better. But largely I think the sorceress is just an easier addition. Even if one likes the shaman, it's much worse to use her as PC, because the solo missions are significantly more difficult.

 

I'm in the shaman camp, because the healing does become useful later

 

I did, however, give my sorceress not only the healing scarab, but the group healing scarab. The only thing I really missed from the shaman's repertoire was the mass-curing spineshield.

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Originally Posted By: The Turtle Moves



I actually played a lot of the game with sorceress, shaman, blademaster. I know it's not considered ideal, and probably wouldn't work on Torment, but it's fun to watch large groups of enemies basically melt in one turn.



No, it works well on Torment. I played the whole game with that setup.
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There's another aspect to which companions you take out that's worth considering: remember, they're not just "the shaman", "the sorceress", etc. - they're specific characters with specific backstories, and each is from a different country within the Pact. As you go through the different areas, they'll say different things, offer different bits of information or advice, etc.

 

I particularly like to bring along someone who is from whichever land I'm going to, or at least from close to it - they're more likely to have interesting input on what's happening.

 

Mind you, not everything they say is useful, but some of it is. And even when it's not concretely useful, it adds colour to the game. Sometimes a little too much - it can be a special sort of interesting to take along someone who's from a country that's a mortal enemy of wherever you're going. I thought I was going to have to bail Jennell out of jail in Khemeria - she'd seemed to mellow before we went there, and then presto, instant psycho. And having just been through the Beraza Pits with Shima and Nathalie, I now feel like I owe Shima a sincere apology and an entire case of beer to make up for subjecting him to that. Either that or I should be paying his therapy bills or something.

 

(Why, yes, I do tend to over-personalize the NPCs...)

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Maybe he and Shigaz can get a bulk discount. Seriously, I would have been a lot more sad about those three soldiers getting their minds eaten if they hadn't been giant racist assholes. (Not even giant intelligent friendly talking racist assholes (GIFTRAs), as the "friendly" and "[censored]" parts in combination seem rather an oxymoron.)

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I am close to the end of the game for the fourth time, Duke Castle, went back to finish some quests as suggested by the game itself, now, I tried to this point of the game all possible parties, without entering the tunnel. I feel best party is being Jennell with Sevilin and Nathalie as companions; Shima is getting smarter after collecting some shadowalker specifical items, but I wouldn't change Sevilin with him because of the "wall" that Sevilin represents and that is most useful in more than a circumstance; nor I would change him with Nathalie, whose firebolt at higher levels is unbeatable from middle distance (much better than the razordisk); Then I would not change Jennel for him because of Spirit Charge that I find fantastic when powered by special items, and the beasts, they are not useful to attack but really useful to block enemies and divert their attention and strikes.

In the beginning I discharged Nathalie from the party most of the times because I thought that Jennel was enough effective with magic powers and two warriors were perfect to suit any quest, but I was wrong. The Earthquake in her skill list I also higly recommend.

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Originally Posted By: spidersilk
There's another aspect to which companions you take out that's worth considering: remember, they're not just "the shaman", "the sorceress", etc. - they're specific characters with specific backstories, and each is from a different country within the Pact. As you go through the different areas, they'll say different things, offer different bits of information or advice, etc.

I particularly like to bring along someone who is from whichever land I'm going to, or at least from close to it - they're more likely to have interesting input on what's happening.

Mind you, not everything they say is useful, but some of it is. And even when it's not concretely useful, it adds colour to the game. Sometimes a little too much - it can be a special sort of interesting to take along someone who's from a country that's a mortal enemy of wherever you're going. I thought I was going to have to bail Jennell out of jail in Khemeria - she'd seemed to mellow before we went there, and then presto, instant psycho. And having just been through the Beraza Pits with Shima and Nathalie, I now feel like I owe Shima a sincere apology and an entire case of beer to make up for subjecting him to that. Either that or I should be paying his therapy bills or something.

(Why, yes, I do tend to over-personalize the NPCs...)


Everything said here, I agree with.

I've just finished Jennell's quest, and felt it really helped to give a good sense of her character - when I venture back to Khemeria she's definitely coming along too, if only so she can flip out continuously again. I've been taking Sevillin to the Kva, obviously, but I like how Jennell just complained all the time/Shima criticized the Stone Circle. It's really excellent flavour.

I just started the Bereza Quests, so I went back and swapped my traditional Sorceress/Sevillin/Shima party for Sorceress/Nathalie/Shima for the Beraza Woods quests, and immediately felt it was the right choice. Nathalie is hilarious, and I'm regretting playing as a sorceress because I won't get to use her as much. I'm envisioning several play-throughs with different set-ups to see how the characters all bounce off one another.

But yeah, I'm really liking Nathalie at the moment. I'm sure I'll regret the party choice once we get down to fighting. tongue
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  • 4 weeks later...

My party is shadowwalker/Natalie/Jenell.

I've done right now Ogre Riders quest, at this point i've only used 2 charge Major Aid, 3 Potion of Battle, 4-5 potion of health.

Game's difficulty - Torment.

Jenell - cleavin Spirit Claw, mass-healing, call wolf-salamander. Full-support char.

Natalie - full-assault char

shadowwalker - I just like this stealth-backstab way in every game.

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I decided to do something different: I made my main character the Shaman. And then I ended up taking Nathalie (I love mages in general and she's a riot most of the time) and Shima along.

 

Playing on Hard, since Torment just frustrates me.

 

I found something out. Shima the Shadowwalker with his middle tree pumped way up (with +2 or even +3 from Masteries) and his teleport/self buff abilities in the right tree up to at least Level 3 each is a surprisingly effective Tank. He can wade in with high armor, great resistances (all 71-84% currently including Armor), a TON of Parry and Riposte, and respectable HP, too. Give him the Teleport Scarab on top of his Shadowstep and he can be any where, any time.

 

I have him charge (or teleport) into a group of foes and use Blade Whirlwind to get their attention. Then I use his Focus to get the Blessing and Spine Shield. Then I park him next to the Shaman's pet and backstab everything into oblivion.

 

Also, regarding Shaman summons: they seem weak, and their melee attacks don't scale very well, but I found something important out:

 

Salamanders and Hellhounds have special abilites. You can't set them up on the Quick Spell list, but they are there nonetheless. Next time you have one of those 2 pets out, and they're active, hit the 'a' key (or whatever you have 'use ability' hotkeyed to).

 

Salamanders can use Radiate Fire (same effect as a Scroll of Circle of Fire) once every 6 turns. Has a HUGE radius and deals pretty good damage.

 

Hellhounds can use Cone of Fire (same effect as a Wand of Fire) once every 4 turns. Has the standard Cone radius and deals roughly the same damage as the Salamender's Radiate.

 

I'm assuming the Drake will have some ability to use as well, but I'm not quite level 27 yet so I can't play with it.

 

The Salamander almost single-handedly allowed me to defeat the perma-hasted Incubi packs which had previously mopped the floor with me on more than one occasion:

 

Initiate combat, buff up, get the 'mander active, open the door... Salamander walks thru, casts Radiate Fire, and BAM, all the Incubi are glued to him, chain-casting Cone of Fire (which he's immune to) while everyone else sneaks into the room and works the Incubi over from the sides, safely out of the reach of the cone attacks.

 

Anyway, I know for a fact that Shaman/Shadowwalker/Sorceress isn't a 100% min/maxed super uber party, but the way the game is balanced I've found that it doesn't matter that much. You just have to take full advantage of every ability and the synergy those abilities have with the other 2 party members.

 

Example: Shaman Pet in melee + mobile Shadowwalker with Backstab

 

Shaman Spirit Charge + Sorceress AoE (just keep your Shaman with higher Dex for optimum benefit)

 

I say, don't let discussion about the "best" party influence you too much. I've been having a ton of fun with my "no way this is going to work holy crap I just slaughtered that entire dungeon" Party wink

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Originally Posted By: Marak
Also, regarding Shaman summons: they seem weak, and their melee attacks don't scale very well, but I found something important out:

Salamanders and Hellhounds have special abilites. You can't set them up on the Quick Spell list, but they are there nonetheless. Next time you have one of those 2 pets out, and they're active, hit the 'a' key (or whatever you have 'use ability' hotkeyed to).

The wolf has a special ability too, although it doesn't look terribly useful.

Dikiyoba.
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