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Exile 2 - Thirteen years later


Brocktree

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A couple of months ago, I did a quick review of Nethergate: Original.

 

Exile was one of my first RPGs, and therefore the trilogy has lots of nostalgia value for me. I managed (with much persistence) to complete Exile 3, but never the previous 2. I have blitzed my way through all three Avernums multiple times.

 

For the last couple of weeks, I've been investing time in Exile 2, attempting to finish what I started 10+ years ago. After sinking many hours into Exile 2, all I can say is that I can see why I finally tired of it. Avernum 5 is considered a grind by many. But at least when you kill an enemy in A5, it stays *dead*. In Exile 2, enemies continue to respawn *everywhere*. Wandering monsters pop up all over the outdoors, and new monsters are generated indoors. Even worse, all the enemies on a level respawn when you navigate between levels. Having to kill the same exact set of enemies again simply to explore the last 1/5th area of a fortress is like having teeth pulled.

 

I have no problem with the graphics. What I do find annoying is the GUI. Why the hell does the actual game screen only occupy half of the screen, and the world screen cover 1/4? When you have a whole screen to work with, why not use it, instead of producing a GUI that causes eye strain?

 

I won't go too much into the game mechanics, since it's well known that they are easily exploitable. What annoys me is that the game is very rough in certain areas, as though it wasn't beta tested. For example, I've had nodes display the wrong dialogue, which is really jarring.

 

I'm also a convert to the Avernum 1-3 spell system of upgrades. Yes, there are more spells in Exile. However, much like Baldur's Gate II, 3/4's of them are cack.

 

In conclusion, thank god Jeff gave Exile a facelift with Avernum.

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Exile was one of my first RPGs I ever played too. I also found it annoying that monsters regenerate everywhere in the Exile trilogy, but there is an advantage to that. You can farm practically all the gold, equipment drops, and experience you want out of the regenerating monsters. Although it's still annoying if they regenerate and you are really battered from a fight with other monsters.

 

The Avernum games were a pretty nice conversion from Exile. I've beaten A1, A2, almost beaten A3, A4, A5, and A6. The spell system is nice, and it is good that monsters don't regenerate then.

 

Still, you probably should give Exile 2 another chance. It may not have the best GUI, but it has an epic plot. The game mechanics are nice and easily exploitable, as you said. Anyway, give it another go.

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Originally Posted By: S M Adventurer
Exile was one of my first RPGs I ever played too. I also found it annoying that monsters regenerate everywhere in the Exile trilogy, but there is an advantage to that. You can farm practically all the gold, equipment drops, and experience you want out of the regenerating monsters. Although it's still annoying if they regenerate and you are really battered from a fight with other monsters.


I can give myself equipment and gold via the character editor, rather than waste time grinding the same enemies over and over.

Ideally, equipment and gold should be a reward for exploration, not doing the same boring schlock over and over.

Quote:

The Avernum games were a pretty nice conversion from Exile.


Exile had respawning monsters, and was therefore a grind. A4 had innumerable generic monsters, and was therefore a grind. A5 had too many subbosses with 1000+ hitpoints, and was therefore a grind.

A2 and A3 were perhaps the best conversions.

Quote:

Still, you probably should give Exile 2 another chance.


Nah.
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Originally Posted By: Brocktree
I have no problem with the graphics. What I do find annoying is the GUI. Why the hell does the actual game screen only occupy half of the screen, and the world screen cover 1/4? When you have a whole screen to work with, why not use it, instead of producing a GUI that causes eye strain?
Because at the time, standard screen resolution for Macs was 640 x 480, and Macs with smaller screens were still around. So it did occupy most of the screen. Your monitor has just grown. A lot.
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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
Originally Posted By: Brocktree
I have no problem with the graphics. What I do find annoying is the GUI. Why the hell does the actual game screen only occupy half of the screen, and the world screen cover 1/4? When you have a whole screen to work with, why not use it, instead of producing a GUI that causes eye strain?
Because at the time, standard screen resolution for Macs was 640 x 480, and Macs with smaller screens were still around. So it did occupy most of the screen. Your monitor has just grown. A lot.


Why wasn't this changed for the PC version?
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Exile 2 has been my first spiderweb game and my first Computer RPG, even if I had been playing RPGs for already more than ten years at the time.

The plot is the best of all the Exile/Avernum serie and I finished Exile 2 at least 5 times, against two each for Exile 1 and 3, one for Avernum 1 and I don't think I ever went to the end on any other Avernum game, almost to the end for all except Avernum 5 but not the end. To be fair at the time, I was using a mac and there weren't that many CRPG for it.

I rather liked the respawning of all empire dungeons, it could be tedious at times but at least you could always get the xp or gold you think you needed. I never use the character editor to get experience and if the game don't provide enough progress for my party, I only stop playing.

I think that's why I didn't end most of the Avernum games, I hate the definitely finite pool of xp and gold you can get, especialy with all the nice options to build your characters in Avernum 4-6.

Of course I regreet the 6 characters party which was better than 4.

 

I havn't played Exile for a while, I wonder if I would still like it. The problem is not the interface, neither the graphics, but the small 11*11 squares play window (if I remember corectly) is a bit small now.

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Originally Posted By: Brocktree
Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
Originally Posted By: Brocktree
I have no problem with the graphics. What I do find annoying is the GUI. Why the hell does the actual game screen only occupy half of the screen, and the world screen cover 1/4? When you have a whole screen to work with, why not use it, instead of producing a GUI that causes eye strain?
Because at the time, standard screen resolution for Macs was 640 x 480, and Macs with smaller screens were still around. So it did occupy most of the screen. Your monitor has just grown. A lot.


Why wasn't this changed for the PC version?


what are you talking about? i thought jeffs games were all only for the pc
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All of Jeff's games were released on Mac originally. PC releases have always been secondary.

 

Although PC stands for "personal computer," in the context of platforms and especially games, it often means things that run Microsoft operating systems: the phrase "IBM PC-compatible" was once rampant, and "PC" has essentially replaced it.

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It's easy to look back at something from years ago and point out things wrong with it. At he time, Exile 2: Crystal Souls was a pretty good game. It was the first demo from Spiderweb Software I played. Sure it has since been remade and overshadowed, but given its context, I believe that Exile 2: Crystal Souls is still a decent game to play.

 

Post #504 cool

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Originally Posted By: Mistb0rn
Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg
Sure it has since been remade and overshadowed


I refuse to believe it. Avernum can't overshadow exile! Avernum's graphics can't even compare, at least not until you hit A4, and don't get me started on the interface.


im sorta half and half.
3D:avernum
Spells:Exile
story:same with some exeptions tongue
weapons:avernum
monsters:avernum

overall i like them both
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I'm not dissing Exile or anything in my post just stating a well known fact. I am also a big lover of the original Exile's. I've been playing them since 1998! But the fact is when Jeff started making the Avernum's, the Exile's took a back seat. They are very great games in their own right, but let's face it (with the exception of number of spells) the Avernum's were better.

 

Post #505 cool

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Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg
I'm not dissing Exile or anything in my post just stating a well known fact. I am also a big lover of the original Exile's. I've been playing them since 1998! But the fact is when Jeff started making the Avernum's, the Exile's took a back seat. They are very great games in their own right, but let's face it (with the exception of number of spells) the Avernum's were better.

Post #505 cool

In my opinion Exile had better sound effects too. The "rawr" sound that played when a monster spotted you was awesome (and sometimes startling).
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  • 2 weeks later...

Exile 2 is my favourite Spiderweb Software game. I really detest not having random monsters in the newer games because you are no longer in control of your level. Grinding exp allows you to always be in control of your level. Geneforge was really hard because Jeff took away the ability to grind monsters.

 

The 2D graphics are better than the newer graphics because you have the bird's eye view and can easily see what's going on in the situation.

 

And the spells in Exile 2 are better than the spells in Avernum 2. The Avernum spells are much more restricted.

 

I really liked the security clearance, the missions, the teleporter from Exile 2. These little additions spruced up ordinary Exile into something really great. I also liked the linearity of the story at certain points. So there was some linearity and some non-linearity mixed together.

 

Beating Garzahd was a really powerful moment! Also I loved attacking that tower with the more minor general or whatever who was still hard to beat.

 

I guess Exile 2 is the best because it just really felt like an active war so there was a lot of excitement and intrigue. Exile 1 and 3 just weren't that exciting and had a more leisurely tone (while Exile 3 had the plagues, it just didn't feel as warlike as Exile 2 I suppose).

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My very first computer RPG was Castle of the Winds. It had two parts, very primitive graphics, and a very simplistic story line. Then Exile (I) came out. The game engine was better, 6 PC's instead of 1, but the best part was the interaction with non PCs and a complex story line.

 

I still have all three Exile episodes loaded on my machine. I also have backups of them, and backups of my backups (Paranoia is a healthy attribute for DBA's).

 

The graphics for E1 were, what I considered, the basis. When E2 came out, the gray cave graphics were not as pleasing to me, since I had gotten used to the bluish/green floors of E1. Also the character icons were changed and looked cartoonish to me. Then someone mapped the E1 graphics to E2. I still have two copies of E2 on my box, one using the graphics published with the game, and one with the E1 graphics. I can share the graphics files if you want.

 

When E3 came out, it went back to the E1 graphics as its basis. BoE also uses the E1/E3 graphics for its base.

 

Then Avernum came along and everything changed...

 

Personally, I liked the 6 PC scenario of Exile to the 4PC version of Avernum. You could split into three teams to better clear an area. And I really miss Avatar and Divine Thud. With all 6 PCs trained to L7 Priest, it was a deadly force. Anti-magic fields were especially useful against powerful magic users like Garzahd or the (ugh!) Rakshasi; take away their only strength, and they are vulnerable to physical attacks.

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Don't feel too chastened now smile Seriously, it's not a big deal. But a lot of people here read the "Active Topics" or "Active Posts" lists, which means in this case they got to read your post twice -- that's all. No biggie.

 

Also, you link in the following format:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I definitely think E2 was my favourite of the trilogy. I loved E1 when I first played it back in '96, the freedom you had to tackle the various goals of the game in whatever order you pleased.

 

E2 took this to another level, there was even more to do, lots more monsters, new spells, new items. Although E2 does feel like you need to grind quite a lot to level your characters up, far moreso than in E1 or E3. This time round, I've conceded to use the character editor to make things a little less tedious and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do love E3 as well, but it felt a little more directed: "First you do this, then you do this, now you go do that". I know there's still a lot of other side-quests in the game, but I never really felt as 'free' as I did in the earlier two games.

 

Still, I'm quite impressed that 15 years later, there's still a place in my affections for these classic games! smile

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One little wrinkle in E3 was the timer. Not only did it determine what jobs were available, or if you had completed them on time, it had interesting effects if you did not complete a major task by a certain day. On one play-through, I spent a lot of time doing side quests before completing the Alien Slime quest. I returned to Krizsan to discover that the town had been severely damaged in my absence and some of the townspeople were gone. The same thing happens to Sharimik if you don't complete the Filth Factory quest. I never got around to seeing what other towns could be affected this way but I suspected a few would.

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Towns get damaged or (in the case of some smaller ones) destroyed if you take too long to complete a major quest. Each major city will slowly crumble the longer you take to stop its corresponding monster plague. However, anyone you need to talk to will still be around somewhere.

Originally Posted By: Harehunter
The same thing happens to Sharimik if you don't complete the Filth Factory quest.
Don't you mean Shayder? They're closest to the Filth Factory, and I can't see the roaches swimming all the way to Sharimik.
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Hey everyone i am new here, i love the whole exile trilogy plus blades of exile, i have also purchased avernum 3 and find that the elelments and the plot are the same although more side quests in a 3 than e 3, i lost my exile trilogy cd several years ago and i called up spiderweb and asked them for new keys to the exilegames 1-3 and they gave them to me once an owner of the games always an owner of the games that is whats so cool about spiderweb, a lifetime gurantee on all the games you buy, I was reading a bottom feeder blog story about piracy, and the neat thing is that i make about 600$ a month and pay rent electric food cable and internet and i still have enough money left over to buy a game so i don't pirate and never have, i know somone who makes 400 a month and still buys games from spiderweb, at least i know that when i buy a game i am helping to not only feed jeffs family i am supporting the development of new games and i hope spiderweb is here for many more years to come,

 

Clint

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  • 2 weeks later...

Roughly two months after getting burnt out on Exile 2, I reloaded my save game. I was pleasantly surprised to realise that I had managed to snag the Orb of Thranli just before rage-quitting, so I decided to continue the game.

 

Somewhere within the first few hours, I made some sort of quantum leap. Perhaps it was obtaining Major Blessing. Or dual wielding steel wave blades enhanced with flaming enchantments. Either way, I've been cleaving my way through the game, and having a blast. I scoured the Empire archives for the location of the Great Portal. Sulfras was released from her (his?) bonds to wreak vengeance on her (his?) captors, and granted me the Onyx sceptre as a reward. Then I infiltrated deep into Empire held lands and took down the portal. I have to admit, it is rather exciting to sneak behind enemy lines and deal the Empire a number of decisive blows.

 

The trick is to only tackle an enemy fortress when you are powerful enough to blow through it once, without needing to return. As I observed in my opening post, enemies respawn if you leave town and rest, so it's crucial that you get what you want from a hostile town in one go, otherwise you're in for a lot of grinding.

 

Enemies constantly reappear in encampments, which means that not only do you need to hit a fortress once, you need to smash through it quickly, otherwise you'll exhaust your mana and get borne down by hordes of enemies. Then you'll have to retreat, rest, and fight the same enemies all over again. Ugh. Reappearing enemies add time pressure and a sense of urgency, and actually make you feel as though you are in a hostile area. So I've changed my opinion on the respawning monsters. They aren't there for grinding. They are there to motivate you get your ass in, and out, of enemy lines as soon as possible. My problem was that I was taking on the major fortresses a little too early. I should have got Major Blessing + dual wielded flaming waveblades first.

 

I also managed to retrieve all three Crystal souls. Ahkronath (sp?) is a particularly memorable dungeon, in that you don't fight hordes of monsters. What I particularly like about Exile 2 is how although the game is non-linear, most quests and major plot points all lead up to a final showdown with Garzhad. Despite the vast expanse of Exile, everything ties together nicely.

 

I still stand by some of my earlier complaints, though. This game sorely needed beta testers. I'm picking up a lot of basic errors throughout my playthrough (mostly spelling, grammatical, and incorrect nodes), and this does break my immersion somewhat. I wish the game screen was bigger (even though this wasn't possible with the PC port). Some of the spells are horridly unbalanced, with Major Blessing and Revive All only costing 8 mana points, although to be fair, these overpowered spells make the game playable.

 

In summary, once you get into the swing of things and can kill monsters at record speed, the game goes from being a grind to a pleasurable experience.

 

I'll break from my review now to make an observation or two regarding augmentation.

 

I've read that the Nether Greatsword can be augmented. This is not correct. However, the Loki Broadsword (Damage 9, Bonus 7, defense 1) can be, if it is uncursed first. This means that you can have Damage 9+7, defense 1, and a flaming enchantment. The problem? An encumbrance of five, which effectively drops your AP by 2 and prevents you from casting mage spells. The mithral shortword (Damage 6 + 5) and dragon tooth knife (Damage 4 + 5) can also be augmented. Few other exceptional items can.

 

Magic waveblades cannot be augmented, *except* for the one you steal from that crystal soul from Chapter 2.

 

I'd also just like to remark that 'always poisoned' weapons are a misnomer. They aren't always poisoned. However, they are highly overrated. The poison damage they inflict is trivial, slow acting, and superceded by flaming damage. If you need good poison damage, just apply Killer poison to a blade, which can be bought in Dharmon.

 

In fact, come to think of it, all weapons except for dual wielded blades are cack. Maces are laughable, and halberds, while good, just can't compete with double assassination/flaming + poison. I suspect that I'm simplying repeating what many other Exile veterans have stated in the past, though.

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Eh, I find that greatswords and halberds can do fairly decent damage, but I agree that dual wielding is still epic. I never found archery to be useful, even though you could somehow carry around thousands of them at a time.

 

Sulfras is indeed female.

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Dual-wielding one-handed edged weapons really is the bees knees. A pair of flaming damage steel waveblades is awesome. I'm even luckier that I have a bugged version of Exile II where magic waveblades don't actually have the 'magic' bit set. Sure, it's cheating, but I do love augmenting those badboys! :-)

 

Oh, does anyone know if flaming damage stacks with assassination? You only get one 'spark damage', but I'm not sure if the two effects stack or not.

 

If not, you probably want to get +3 enchantment instead. (Anyone remember where you get this in E2?)

 

The other augmentations always seemed a bit pointless to me. Augmenting even a steel weapon to +1 is hardly worth it since magic weapons aren't that hard to pin down. Flame augment is also a bit pointless, since flame wands are cheap and plentiful. Although you could always create makeshift wands in E3 by flame-augmenting a stick. smile

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Originally Posted By: AndyLandy
Dual-wielding one-handed edged weapons really is the bees knees. A pair of flaming damage steel waveblades is awesome. I'm even luckier that I have a bugged version of Exile II where magic waveblades don't actually have the 'magic' bit set. Sure, it's cheating, but I do love augmenting those badboys! :-)


The only magic wave blade I have been able to augment is the one you pinch from the Crystal Soul you have you pay tribute to in Chapter 2.

Quote:

Oh, does anyone know if flaming damage stacks with assassination? You only get one 'spark damage', but I'm not sure if the two effects stack or not.


Unfortunately it doesn't. If you assassinate, the flaming damage is ignored. This raises questions as to whether one would be better off with a magic weapon later in the game, as assassination tends to kick in about 60% of the time when you pump that skill.

Quote:

If not, you probably want to get +3 enchantment instead. (Anyone remember where you get this in E2?)


The max you can get is +2, from Camp Samuels. Still, that would give Loki's broadsword a whopping 9 bonus.
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