Nethergate - Eleven years later

[Brocktree]

Eleven years after first completing Nethergate with both a Celt and Roman party, I have returned to it, once again completing it with a Roman party.

 

When I think back to my early teens, I remember being impressed by this game. It came out soon after Exile 3, and was completing different from what I was expecting. The Exile trilogy reflected Jeff's (successful) attempts to refine the Exile engine. Nethergate was something totally different. It had a different setting, a smaller outdoors area, fewer towns, a different skill point system, a linear plot, and isometric graphics.

 

I was impressed with Nethergate back then. Now that I'm older, I appreciate it far more. Jeff was really ambitious, he took the plunge and made something fresh and original, rather than a remake or sequel. I love how the setting draws loosely upon history and folklore, while having an element of creativity and vibrancy. I admire the linear storyline, and how the Celtic and Roman PC stories mesh together perfectly. The attention to detail in this game is exquisite, with dialogue changing as you progress through the storyline. Not only are the storylines for each side different, the Romans and Celts both play differently as well.

 

I know that some people condemn the isometric graphics, but I find them appealing. They get the job done, that's for sure. The user interface is easy to navigate, and is not at all intrusive.

 

Nethergate also has two elements which I think are lacking from later games. Firstly, the keyword talking system. I really miss hunting for the correct keyword, it's almost like we are spoon-fed with pre-written phrases these days. Secondly, magical items are actually very sparse in Nethergate. This reminds me of Exile 1, where it was also very difficult to obtain powerful magical items. It seems that later Spiderweb games shower you with unique items, which strangely enough, devalues them.

 

Nethergate really is a gem, I honestly don't understand why it is not recognised as such.

[Slawbug]

Amen!

[Triumph]

I wish the original ran on my computer (given the purported inferiority of the remake, according to some on here)... Ah well. I tremendously enjoyed N: Resurrection; it is still my favorite SW game (of those limited number that I own, and it shares of many good qualities described in the original game.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

I wish the original ran on my computer (given the purported inferiority of the remake, according to some on here)... Ah well. I tremendously enjoyed N: Resurrection; it is still my favorite SW game (of those limited number that I own, and it shares of many good qualities described in the original game.

N:R is a fine game on it's own. It really is. The problem is that those of us who have played the original many times are too crotchety and set in our ways.

[Slawbug]

In all honesty, N:R is probably a better game. I love the original unlimited-skill point system -- but the N:R system is better balanced and just as interesting, and the XP system in N:R works a lot better for party (non-singleton) play. And I, too, greatly prefer the keyword-style conversation system -- but that is relatively minor. Plus, the bonus content in N:R is very good, comparable maybe the Bahssikava in Avernum 1.

 

There is really just one critical flaw in N:R, which is the horrendous graphics changes for goblins and one or two other enemies (Fomorians, IIRC?). Ewww.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

There is really just one critical flaw in N:R, which is the horrendous graphics changes for goblins and one or two other enemies (Fomorians, IIRC?). Ewww.

I made a fix for that when N:R first came out.

[Ishad Nha]

"I wish the original ran on my computer "

Windows compatibility mode might be useful here. Right click on the program when in Windows Explorer, then choose Properties. When that loads, click on the Compatibility tab. Assuming that you are on Windows not Mac. It runs fine on my Windows XP set up.

"(given the purported inferiority of the remake, according to some on here)... "

N:R is Avernumized, it uses the Blades of Avernum engine. That does not thrill a lot of people including me. But N:R is a good game.

[Triumph]

I have a Mac. Thanks though. I did decide to download and try out Tyranicus' graphics remix, and think I might start a new Romans play-through this week to see how it looks.

[Brocktree]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

I wish the original ran on my computer (given the purported inferiority of the remake, according to some on here)... Ah well. I tremendously enjoyed N: Resurrection; it is still my favorite SW game (of those limited number that I own, and it shares of many good qualities described in the original game.

As Slarty pointed out, N:R is the better game. However, this is hardly a surprise, as it represents an upgrade to the original game. Jeff changed very little, IMHO. He merely made some modifications to the skill point system to balance it more fairly, ironed out some bugs, and added some additional content. Oh, and he made it so that the game occupied the entire screen, instead of 1/3rd, which makes it *much* easier on the eyes.

Older Spiderweb veterans remember Nethergate: Original fondly because it was advanced *for its time*. It was a breath of fresh air from the Exile series. As I mentioned earlier, the Exile trilogy involved Jeff tweaking the Exile engine. Nethergate represented the leap to isometric graphics and a world outside of Exile, as well as a new skill system. Nethergate: Original was to Exile what Geneforge was to Avernum. Hell, Avernum owes much of what it is to N: O. Now N: R owes some of what it is to the Avernum engine. Heh.

Nethergate: Resurrection is a better game that Nethergate: Original, sure. But I don't consider it innovative. It's really just a tweaking of N: O, with a small amount of additional content.

[Slawbug]

Nethergate wasn't "a breath of fresh air from the Exile series." There are some SW veterans who prefer the Nethergate engine to Exile's, but there are others of us who prefer Exile's engine just as strongly.

[Alorael at Large]

The only change from N to N:R that I really mind is the loss of Pearlblossom. She's reduced from a conversation to a single piece of text, and it saddened me.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't consider the fundamental game altered by changes in conversation or changes in armor that can be used or even the substantial alteration in experience and skill points. It's still the same game and the same story, and it's still very good.

[Ishad Nha]

"The only change from N to N:R that I really mind is the loss of Pearlblossom. She's reduced from a conversation to a single piece of text, and it saddened me."

Original Nethergate had provision for outdoor dialog. This game broadly used the Blades of Exile special node system with some tweaks, a special Outdoor Dialog node existed, number 231. Other examples of this include Snorble the Goblin, Kaja the Druid and Shaynee the Dryad.

N:R uses the Blades of Avernum engine so it can't have outdoor dialog. Though it can be faked with clever use of outdoor script states.

[Brocktree]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Nethergate wasn't "a breath of fresh air from the Exile series." There are some SW veterans who prefer the Nethergate engine to Exile's, but there are others of us who prefer Exile's engine just as strongly.

I'm not claiming that one engine is better than another. I'm simply observing that the engine in Nethergate was innovative, and worked well. I respect creativity and the courage to go beyond your comfort zone, instead of simply sticking to what you already know. Although I understand why game designers would do this profit-wise.

[Slawbug]

The difference between "innovation" and "a breath of fresh air" is that the latter implies things were previously stale and definitely implies that the fresh air is better.

 

Edit: And now I'm really arguing for no reason whatsoever.

[Curtis]

My best friend runs N:O on his Windows XP machine. The one thing I prefer from that version is that you actually have to eat food periodically. One thing that annoys me about N:R is that I carry food around for 'realism' purposes, but I never need to eat.

 

Actually, there's something else that annoys me about all Spiderweb games, and that's that I can walk into a store, pick something up off the counter, then sell it to the shopkeeper I just stole it from.

[goblindolf]

I think the food thing is to make the game 'easier'.

 

Maybe instead in the future he could bring food back and leave it for higher difficulties or an option to turn it on/off.

 

I liked the original's skill point system. You would get a lot of satisfying "tink!" sounds

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Yeah, I think the way the early Avernums and N:R deal with food is pretty much the worst of both worlds relative to earlier and later games. I'm most inclined to favor leaving out food entirely, but I do also like the way A6 handled the issue in light of the whole 'people are starving and food is a precious commodity' bit.

[Slawbug]

I don't think I have heard ANY negative comments about A6's food implementation, which is interesting. It reminds me a bit of Dungeon Master's, but even more scaled down: you get to pick up and move around pretty icons, some of which may even be valuable, but the food timer is slow enough that it's never an actual concern.

[Randomizer]

Food was a problem in Avernum 6 beta testing where you had to restock about once a game play hour.

[dave s]

All the A6 food system meant was that I had to dedicate a few inventory slots to items I pay no attention to otherwise.