Open BoE Editor.

[Tonweya]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but just keep forgetting; it's a geriatric thing. ;^{

The "Wait 40 moves" is now "Wait 80 moves" and although that doesn't bother me, I've noticed that when the Party is in a Dungeon, things like Webs, or Spells cast by the Bad Guys, like Curse, etc. seem to last a very long time, to the point the Party needs to leave the Dungeon for them to go away.

The same happens with Combative Spells cast by the Party, such as Bless, Haste, etc.

Since it all balances out in the long run, I don't really mind, but I was wondering if I have an earlier, beta-type version of the Program or if this is the new "norm".

tx, me

[Slawbug]

I thought it was wait 40 in Exile and wait 100 in Exile 2 and beyond? It's 80?

[keira]

In E3 it was 40.

[Celtic Minstrel]

I thought webs last until you explicitly stop to clean them off.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

I thought it was wait 40 in Exile and wait 100 in Exile 2 and beyond? It's 80?

As I recall, the menu option says 100, but Jeff cut corners and actually just called the old "Wait 40 moves" code twice. You can see this if you set timers.

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

Or exit to the outdoors.

[Slawbug]

That is true about webs. Ahbleza, have you definitely noticed this behavior with actual short term statuses (curse, slow, etc)?

[Chokboyz]

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

The "Wait 40 moves" is now "Wait 80 moves"

From the changelog : "Changed the "Wait 40 moves" dialog to "Wait 80 moves" to better reflect the time actually waited."

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

I've noticed that when the Party is in a Dungeon, things like Webs, or Spells cast by the Bad Guys, like Curse, etc. seem to last a very long time, to the point the Party needs to leave the Dungeon for them to go away.
The same happens with Combative Spells cast by the Party, such as Bless, Haste, etc.

What version of the game are you using ? This sounds like a critical bug (introduced in 1.1, thanks an undetected code collision) that has been identified in May 2010.

Chokboyz

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I thought webs last until you explicitly stop to clean them off.

Last time I checked, this was the case.

[Chokboyz]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I thought webs last until you explicitly stop to clean them off.

With a few exceptions : leaving a town resets all status except poison, disease and dumbness (hence remove webs) and "Long Waiting" cleans all webs.

Chokboyz

[Tonweya]

F.W.I.W. to Chokboyz:

The 'bladbase.exe' file in the version I'm using is dated: 15 Jun 09 and is 99kb.

I took a Party into a dungeon and walked into a web.

I clicked on the Party icon to 'pause' and received the message that each Party member 'cleans webs'.

I did this 300 times and no webs were cleaned.

I left the dungeon and the webs all disappeared.

I presume that this is what you referred to as the critical bug in 1.1.

I also presume that the latest patch, (Win_CBoE_build_27.09.2010.zip) will correct this, y/n?

I'll download it, overwrite what I have and see it this corrects what I'm experiencing.

It would appear that I hadn't noticed the updated 'patch', so it must be 'my bad'.

tx,

me

[Tonweya]

Just a tad bit more...

I downloaded the updated patch and everything works as I had hoped it would.

I didn't notice that the update had been posted, so I appologize for missing it.

 

F.W.I.W. again;

I was an industrial electricain for well over 40 years and a great deal of that time was spent in control panels, some were pretty complex.

I have some idea of what you(all) have accomplished and would like to make sure that you know how much I appreciate all that you've done for this Community.

 

Many, many thanks.

me

[Chokboyz]

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

The 'bladbase.exe' file in the version I'm using is dated: 15 Jun 09 and is 99kb.

Nop, that's the "bladbase.exS" file (for your information, it's the "base scenario" that is loaded when a new scenario is created). You're probably looking for the "Blades of Exile.exe" file.
Nonetheless, don't worry about the date of modification and such, i've put the version number in the title bar and the "About..." entry of the help menu.

From the description of your bug, it's exactly the(critical) bug i was thinking about (that explains why i delete the 1.1 patch and subsequents from the download repository).
Glad to see the patch fixed it.
Don't hesitate to report glitches you may find

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

It would appear that I hadn't noticed the updated 'patch', so it must be 'my bad'.
[...]
I didn't notice that the update had been posted, so I appologize for missing it.

Don't worry about that : i've been so many times on and off this project that communication has been pretty poor on my side (proof : over 1000 downloads of Classic Blades of Exile v1.0, less then 300 for the different patches).

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

I was an industrial electricain
[...]
I appreciate all that you've done for this Community

No problem
I'm glad you (and i hope others) are enjoying Blades of Exile, as i've enjoyed it not so (?) far ago.

Have fun,
Chokboyz

[Tonweya]

How about another one...

Regarding a Node that calls for, "Cure/Cause" (whatever)...

I've noticed that some lean more toward the "Cure" and others toward the "Cause".

Is the action performed by the Node a random choice and/or does "Luck" have anything to do with the result?

[Chokboyz]

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

How about another one...
Regarding a Node that calls for, "Cure/Cause" (whatever)...
I've noticed that some lean more toward the "Cure" and others toward the "Cause".
Is the action performed by the Node a random choice and/or does "Luck" have anything to do with the result?

Are you talking about the "Affect PCs" nodes ("Affect health", "Affect curse/bless", etc) ?
If so, there's a field in the node dialog that let the designer specify if the node helps or harms the party (usually it's extra 1b).

Hope it helps,
Chokboyz

[Tonweya]

You're right.

I think I need a vacation from this.

I just finished a long, confusing one.

Not only did I miss one just the other day, but didn't even see this.

I'm sorry for the dumb question.

I was reading the action and just not thinking.

Again, thanks a bunch.

me

[Celtic Minstrel]

Related to this is an aesthetic thing that I'd like to fix, so that the item ability appropriately says "Cure" or "Cause" rather than both.

[Tonweya]

Is there a limit to the number of nodes in each of the six groups?

Assuming it would require two nodes for the original one, and there are several different cure/cause nodes, you wouldn't run out of 'space', would you?

What you suggest sounds like a good idea, but in truth, this was just my failure to read the instructions.

Personally, I favor what you say about designing something as 'fool-proof' as practical, but no matter how much you do, there will always be some 'fool', (me), who will have a problem.

Bottom line: If you do this, it would be appreciated, but in the long run, it may not be worth the work unless there are still other modifications to the new version of the Editor and you could just add it to the list.

[Slawbug]

There's no need for extra nodes, just a simple check in the ability display code that toggles between "cure" and "cause" depending on the value given.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

Bottom line: If you do this, it would be appreciated, but in the long run, it may not be worth the work unless there are still other modifications to the new version of the Editor and you could just add it to the list.

Sorry if I confused you... I wasn't talking about the special nodes at all. I was talking about the item special abilities that do the same thing.

[Tonweya]

Here I am again...

At present, the BoE Editor does not allow for the placement of a 'Special', or 'Node' on water, does it?

me

[Chokboyz]

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

At present, the BoE Editor does not allow for the placement of a 'Special', or 'Node' on water, does it?

There's no problem with placing Special Nodes on water...
Maybe you've run out of nodes for a given town/outdoor section ? (does it display an error message ?)

Chokboyz

[Tonweya]

It's not me, it's the Scenario I just did another "Walk-Through" for.

* Excuse me if this is overly lengthy, but I don't know how to write small explainations. ;^{

You buy a boat and leave the town by a river that leads into a watery cavern.

At the exit, there is a small land mass, (two vertical grey squares) blocking any alternative exit, so you MUST cross these land masses.

Each has a "Special" Node on it for no other purpose than to give a "Display Message". The messages refer to making a "portage" from the town to the cavern.

There is a small problem in that you MUST row the boat into and across these two land masses.

If you exit the boat and walk across them, you'll be in the Cavern and cannot return. You MUST "Restore" to a previous save, which could be a pain in the neck if a Player didn't save near this point.

Out of curiosity, I used the BoE Editor on this area.

I removed the two land masses, assuming that the Special Nodes could be put back in the same place on the water so the Player wouldn't make the mistake of leaving the Boat, but had no luck.

I'll go back and try it again.

Odds are I just did something wrong, or backwards.

tx,

me

[Tonweya]

P.S.

Poor excuse as it is...

This is the 52nd detailed Walk-Through I've made and in between accomplishing this one I just did, I'm also trying to update all the others now that you've updated to the new, "Open BoE Editor".

Which, by the way, I thank you for, greatly.

me

[Chokboyz]

The name of the scenario, along with some additional informations (number of the town, outdoor sector in which it happens, error message, etc) would be nice, in order to check if there's indeed a faulty behavior.

 

Nonetheless,

 

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza

I removed the two land masses, assuming that the Special Nodes could be put back in the same place on the water so the Player wouldn't make the mistake of leaving the Boat, but had no luck.

Changing the terrain (using the pen tool; in this case, from "land mass" to water, if i understood correctly) doesn't affect any special node in the square.

In case you don't know, there's a whole set of commands dedicated to dealing with special nodes (5 last icons in the third row of the panel under the terrain icons).

 

Without any further informations, i'm only guessing though...

 

Chokboyz

[Lilith]

Are you sure there were actually special nodes on the terrain at all, and the message you were seeing wasn't just the default message where it lets you choose whether to go under a bridge or land?

[Celtic Minstrel]

I think I know what the problem is here. You can place a special on water all you like, but when you're in a boat you won't trigger any specials.

[keira]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I think I know what the problem is here. You can place a special on water all you like, but when you're in a boat you won't trigger any specials.

This. Found out the hard way after I based an entire scenario on being able to do that

[Tonweya]

Thanks for the responses, but I did go back to check what I was doing and, as a wise man once said, "99% of all failures are 'operator'".

It was me and I humbly beg your forgiveness for bothering you.

FWIW...

The Scenarios is, "Wreck of the Slug".

The Town is Rodosto (#16).

The location is/are 23, 42 and 23, 43.

You purchase a boat and head south along the river to the south end of the town to leave.

There are two grey squares with specials on them that give you two messages about making a portage to the Cavern Streams.

When I encountered these two grey spots that would normally represent land masses, I left the boat, stepped on each and ended up in the Cavern Streams withouth a boat.

I returned to a previous 'save' and did this over, this time rowing the boat into/onto the grey spaces and this time entered the Cavern Streams with a boat. I didn't expect to row a boat onto a land mass.

I felt that the specials should have been placed on the water, not land masses, so I made changes and lost the specials.

Having gone back over this again, after this posting, I think I was using the wrong blue icon and that was the simple problem.

This water is the icon at Row 5, Column 4; the dark blue water that is for large bodies of water

I used the icon at Row 3, Column 17, (rivers & streams), and that triggered my confusion.

By using the proper icon, the 'Specials' stay there and there is no confusion about water and land mass.

When I find something in a Scenario that confuses me, (easy to do), I usually do something like this to see if there might have been a different, or better, way to do it.

It's part of the learning process.

I just hope I learn soon. ;^}

Again, many thanks.

I'm reassured to see that there are still concerned people out there and that's a comfort.

me

[Cryolemon]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I think I know what the problem is here. You can place a special on water all you like, but when you're in a boat you won't trigger any specials.

Would it be possible to change this? Or would it break things?

[Tonweya]

Changing this, or any other "error" in any Scenario is a "Can Do", but is also a "Can't Do".

That's what I said that I did, to change the two spaces from grey land masses to dark blue water.

There are, on occasion, a few programming flaws in some Scenarios. I like to make a list of ones I find and then correct them - without breaking anyghing- as a way of learning, or understanding, the Editor functions.

In this particular case, all that was needed was to change the two grey 'land masses' to the dark blue water. The two Nodes remained and, much more cleanly gave the Player the appropriate messages without "luring" the Player to leave the boat and walking on the land masses.

The "Can't Do" is that I, or anyone else, would be absolutely WRONG to allow a modified Scenario to be redistributed to the Community. All of this is only for my personal experience and learning.

As I've said on numerous occasions, I'm only a mediocre Player at best and even less at the Editor.

There is one Scenario that I truly enjoyed some years ago that had some basic flaws and simply could not be played through. That Scenario was my learning platform; at least to the extent that I now know how the Editor functions. I've replayed that scenario several times since I corrected it and still enjoy it for the game's sake as much as what I accomplished.

Any problems I have are the "Operator" type, in that I make simple mistakes and then compound them.

But enough.

Again, thanks for all the response to this subject.

Let's put it to rest and I'll see if I can come up with something new. ;^}

[Chokboyz]

Your questions are completely legitimates, as you've indeed found a "sore spot" : as Celtic Minstrel said special nodes are not triggered when in boat (in town mode/combat mode only, specials are indeed triggered outdoor).

 

My previous answer was hence incomplete (i wrongly assumed you were outdoor) : the creator(s) of the scenario just used a workaround (the two cave floors) for the lack of "boat-triggerable" specials. The fact that you were supposed to row into the land may be mentioned in the readme file, but the lack of clear instructions induced a little confusion...

 

Originally Posted By: Cryolemon

Would it be possible to change this? Or would it break things?

On a technical side, the problem is that the function that is suppose to check if there's a special in a entered town square, doesn't take into account the possibility that the party is in boat. The special is indeed supposed to trigger if the square is not blocked (i.e the party can enter it) and that excludes water.

Simply checking if the party is in boat and can boat over the terrain solved the problem.

 

On the compatibility side, i have no idea if any scenario uses this "feature" (e.g to force the party to use a boat passed a certain square, a special node prevent the party from entering the square, forcing one to boat over it to bypass the node).

To be on the safe side, we can implement it as a compatibility switch and/or for the new scenario format.

 

Chokboyz

 

Edit : Just found another glitch with the special check function : if trying to enter a square containing the special node number 50, the party is forced moved through the square (i.e it can go through walls, etc). The special is not triggered if the square is blocked in the first place though.

This seems another leftover (old implementation of "secret passage" ?) and can probably be fixed without any compatibility issue.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Cryolemon

Would it be possible to change this? Or would it break things?

I was planning to change it by adding a special node type which does nothing except tell the game that the special should be triggered when you're in a boat, sort of like the Sanctification Ritual node.

[Tonweya]

I'm afraid I've opened another "can of worms" here.

It appears to me that the Authors wanted to make comment that you made a portage across the divide between the two "Towns" so they used the two grey 'land mass' squares.

If they had left the spaces dark blue like the rest of the area, the Player would row into the spaces, get the messages and continue on into the next town.

There's no reason to make any modifications to anything.

As I was trying to explain, this is just a simple "Learning Point" regarding the Editing of a Scenario that I have now attained. (hopefully) ;^}

me