Suing for becoming a video game junkie

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: waterplant

Great products are often addictive, don't you think?

Yeah but addictive products aren't always great...

Quote:

I don't see this going anywhere good so...

You'd have seen exactly where it went if you'd open the spoiler box.

[Dantius]

Well, depending on your view of"great", a great product could simply be a product that sells well. So Farmville could very well be one of the greatest achievements of humanity.

 

Oh god. What have we done?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: nikki.

You'd have seen exactly where it went if you'd open the spoiler box.

actually that image doesn't work, i think it's got an anti-hotlinking thingy

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

South Korea has some people that have similar problems where they play for days without doing anything else.

I thought that was called "vacation"?

There is a difference between addiction and lack of self-restraint. And while the latter may lead to the former, as long as the company in question is not drugging/subliminally influencing/otherwise enforcing their product through questionably legal means, the company is not at fault. Instead, the fault lies in the inability of the individual and those close to him/her to discern an imbalanced or destructive path through life.
A gambling addict or those close to one, for example, can easily note time spent gambling, the amount of losses or wins, and see that something is not right.
Why does the same not apply to other activities? While some gamers, like myself, may be involved as a hobby, or for entertainment, one would think that it would inevitably be revealed by outside sources that the amount of time devoted is destructive.

I myself have had to learn limits on when I can and cannot start a title game, or an online match, or such, because I know how easily I can get sucked into it: It's pretty obvious when time passes, and you end up late for key events, or forgetting projects, and stuff to that nature.
Doesn't mean that since I've learned these lessons, I haven't spent three-day periods doing nothing but playing a new title release (or replaying an old favorite) in my pajamas with the lights off, subsisting on pop-tarts and orange juice. Sometimes, it's fun to take the days on which you have no immediate responsibilities shutting out the outside world and doing nothing of consequence.
But shirking only works when you've got nothing to truly shirk from.

Did the plaintiff in question not have responsibilities to attend? Or relationships to maintain? Or did he simply not care, did not consider the consequences of his actions (or, more accurately, lack thereof), and is simply trying to push the blame and the consequenses elsewhere?

While it is a good business idea for any piece of entertainment to be both enjoyable and time-consuming enough to prevent the audience from enjoying the competition's product, the way that we spend our time is inevitably up to us, and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

_________________________
The Silent Assassin likes fuzzy bunnies.
He also likes lAong walks on the tarmac, handing out candy to small children, and sneaking into your room in the middle of the night, on the off-chance that you'll wake up and scream for his video camera.

[Handyman]

Well, either we punish the merchants of these products--which probably doesn't work, all things considered, but would be the point of a punitive lawsuit--or we address the systemic causes of addiction.

 

However, legal products that merely aim to generate and appease addictions--alcohol and nicotine, at the very least--have not been "disincentivized" by punitive laws/lawsuits. Also, given the nature of addiction, companies will exploit psychological research to foster addiction, and should probably cease doing so, or be made to pay for repairs to the social damage they exploit.

 

Nor, for that matter, have punitive laws against alcohol and nicotine trashed the sale of "fine" alcohol/tobacco products. I believe, sir, this is Dikiyoba's neglected argument.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

actually that image doesn't work, i think it's got an anti-hotlinking thingy

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: nikki.

Originally Posted By: Lilith

actually that image doesn't work, i think it's got an anti-hotlinking thingy

Ohhhhh. Goat-sea. Now I get it!

Gah, I feel stupid now.

[Sudanna]

Is that a sea? Looks more like a lake.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Handyman

Nor, for that matter, have punitive laws against alcohol and nicotine trashed the sale of "fine" alcohol/tobacco products. I believe, sir, this is Dikiyoba's neglected argument.

Nikki's Farmville post was really what I had in mind. Addictive games are not necessarily high in quality or even very fun. They are just something you keep on playing beyond what is reasonable.

Originally Posted By: Lenar

Instead, the fault lies in the inability of the individual and those close to him/her to discern an imbalanced or destructive path through life.

Dunno. Dikiyoba doesn't quite know enough to explain it properly, but Dikiyoba isn't so inclined to blame an individual for their addiction. If you're stressed or unhappy, then the risk of getting addicted is greater. Sometimes that stress and unhappiness may be due to an individual making poor choices, but sometimes it may be the culture making poor choices and sometimes it's just something entirely out of anybody's control.

[Handyman]

Even phrasing it as an "inability" suggests, well, an inability.

 

And, you had to *learn* how to manage yourself. This is consistent with the theory that addiction is a learning disease.

 

Moralizing may be somewhat effective to a certain subset of people; probably those reared in moralist environments, where morality is seen as a valid instrument of control. However, those who neglect their responsibilities are probably those for whom moralizing will have least of an effect.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: waterplant

Great products are often addictive, don't you think? A book that you 'can't put down' suggests a really good book.

But a book ends, and you put it down. A good game ends, and while some have replay value, or post-end play, usually you're done. Online games? You can keep going forever.

—Alorael, who isn't sure that "addictive" makes sense. You could make an equally good case for delicious food being addictive and causing harm. If someone can't stop, it's not necessarily the maker's fault. On the other hand, games can be designed to encourage grind. Food is usually designed to encourage eating, but it's hard to design in eating to excess.

[Handyman]

Actually, there is a great deal of behavioral and molecular research on food addiction. The concept of "addiction" is not firmly rooted to drugs, only prototyped by them. And, eating to excess is the obvious and necessary precursor to an "obesity epidemic." The customers always get what they want; but sometimes, they want crack.

[waterplant]

The use of the word 'addiction' appears to be the bone of contention here. Gaming is addictive - same as, say, chilli chips or lime pickle (omg - lime pickle!) - but it's hard to imagine video games being dependence forming. If the case in question involved the guy losing his job because he went bowling instead of going to work then the suit would be thrown straight out. Maybe the guy didn't go to work because deep down he preferred to sit at home playing computer games (who wouldn't?).

 

Stack this 'video game junkie''s story against that of another type of 'junkie' and he comes off looking more than a bit pathetic.

[Cairo Jim]

I had a tiny bit of a "game addicted" period a few years ago. I was playing E3 one afternoon and a certain song came on that for some reason caught my attention wile playing. Thereafter for the next 3 months, every time I heard that song, I itched to play E3, and that song was played many times over and over on radio and the like.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: waterplant

The use of the word 'addiction' appears to be the bone of contention here. Gaming is addictive - same as, say, chilli chips or lime pickle (omg - lime pickle!) - but it's hard to imagine video games being dependence forming. If the case in question involved the guy losing his job because he went bowling instead of going to work then the suit would be thrown straight out. Maybe the guy didn't go to work because deep down he preferred to sit at home playing computer games (who wouldn't?).

Stack this 'video game junkie''s story against that of another type of 'junkie' and he comes off looking more than a bit pathetic.

on the other hand, when there are recorded cases of people who keep playing non-stop until they literally die of starvation and exhaustion...

[waterplant]

Are there?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: waterplant

Are there?

yup

and i've personally met someone who spent all her time for several years playing MMOs and neglected self-care to the point of becoming dangerously underweight and suffering heart problems

[waterplant]

Hardcore. That's truly shocking.

[Sudanna]

Well, I'll see your fat loser and raise you a former prostitute and junkie of various kinds whose life was ruined more by WoW than any of the drugs she tried.

 

Anecdote? Yes, but a true one.

[Alorael at Large]

What fat loser? Lilith said "dangerously underweight."

 

—Alorael, who also doesn't think that anecdote is necessarily helpful. Drug addiction can rather seriously affect your brain, and the effects don't end when the drugs do. Otherwise healthy people getting hooked on WoW (or Starcraft) are more alarming.

[Sudanna]

Heavens, that's a bad misreading. Look at me, subconsciously using stereotypes.

 

Well, to be honest, junkie's a bit much. She tried a lot of drugs once or twice, most of the ones everyone's heard of except for meth. Didn't get addicted to any of them, even heroin. Did get addicted to WoW, severely so.

[The Ratt]

Originally Posted By: Flower Child

meth... addicted to WoW

Well there's your solution.

I jest. Meth is much worse than video games.

[Handyman]

waterplant: I suppose you're right about physiological dependence; although that would only worsen the withdrawl, and (depending on the drug and severity) introduce health risks. Excepting the health risks, it's a difference of degrees.

 

one dollar: Experience in general changes the brain. PTSD, for instance, is not a drug.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

Meth is much worse than video games.

Please tell me you're not talking from experience.

And nobody has to tell me that video games can be addicting; several years ago (when Super Mario Bros. 3 was still fairly new, in fact), I found out the hard way by coming very close to playing all night.

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

And nobody has to tell me that video games can be addicting; several years ago (when Super Mario Bros. 3 was still fairly new, in fact), I found out the hard way by coming very close to playing all night.

Last Xmas I played Guild Wars for about 32 hours straight before going to sleep (at the keyboard). Super Mario Bros. has nothing on MMO's.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

And nobody has to tell me that video games can be addicting; several years ago (when Super Mario Bros. 3 was still fairly new, in fact), I found out the hard way by coming very close to playing all night.

playing a game for most of one night? oh, you dangerous rebel, you

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

And nobody has to tell me that video games can be addicting; several years ago (when Super Mario Bros. 3 was still fairly new, in fact), I found out the hard way by coming very close to playing all night.

playing a game for most of one night? oh, you dangerous rebel, you

After he finished the game, he ate cookies and didn't tell anyone!

[Tirien]

Napoleon loves cookies. Its the reason he died.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Tirien, Master of Bacon

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

And nobody has to tell me that video games can be addicting; several years ago (when Super Mario Bros. 3 was still fairly new, in fact), I found out the hard way by coming very close to playing all night.

Last Xmas I played Guild Wars for about 32 hours straight before going to sleep (at the keyboard). Super Mario Bros. has nothing on MMO's.

That's getting into the unacceptable range, yes.

—Alorael, who has yet to actually fall asleep at his keyboard. He'd be proud of this if it weren't less a sign of good habits and more a sign of insomnia.

[The Ratt]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

Meth is much worse than video games.

Please tell me you're not talking from experience.

No I'm not, I'm talking from what I've heard. Stuff like, "one use of meth kills 10% of your brain cells", and "it's super-addictive to the point of almost guaranteed". As far as I know, there is video game that has similar effects from one average use. However, after a quick examination those rumors appear to be exaggerated, but accompanied by other nasty side-effects as well.

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

No I'm not, I'm talking from what I've heard. Stuff like, "one use of meth kills 10% of your brain cells", and "it's super-addictive to the point of almost guaranteed". As far as I know, there is video game that has similar effects from one average use. However, after a quick examination those rumors appear to be exaggerated, but accompanied by other nasty side-effects as well.

If it killed 10% of your brain cells each time you used it, you would be dead in, oh I dont know... 4-5 uses? People use meth far more than that and survive. Of course, it still tends to end up killing them after a while.

In other words, dont do meth. This has been a public service announcement.

[waterplant]

Originally Posted By: Handyman

waterplant: I suppose you're right about physiological dependence; although that would only worsen the withdrawl, and (depending on the drug and severity) introduce health risks. Excepting the health risks, it's a difference of degrees.

one dollar: Experience in general changes the brain. PTSD, for instance, is not a drug.

My initial comment in this thread wasn't thought through - looking at addiction from the outside can cause a superficial 'get over it' attitude. Reading the wiki page on gaming addiction was humbling and disturbs me still. I am usually against regulation but, seen simply as a helpful reminder that gaming has risks, a notice on the package regarding gaming addiction is a good idea.

[Artemis~]

To be honest, this is just like trying to sue McDonalds for making you fat. I'm curious as to how a law suit like that would end up.

[Tirien]

Well....you could go eat at McDonalds more often, and then when you get fat you can try to sue them, and let us know how it turns out.

[Callie]

Originally Posted By: Tirien, Master of Bacon

Well....you could go eat at McDonalds more often, and then when you get fat you can try to sue them, and let us know how it turns out.

Why? There is already precedent on the matter and the judge in the case dismissed the suit.

[Artemis~]

Quote:

Well....you could go eat at McDonalds more often, and then when you get fat you can try to sue them, and let us know how it turns out.

It seems that won't be necessary...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_legal_cases

Some baka from the Bronx has beat me to it. T_T

[Tirien]

You just wanted a excuse to eat at McDonalds every day for several weeks didnt you?

[Artemis~]

There's not much that I can eat there, being vegetarian. Everything is all calories, anyway. I'm genuinely surprised that one would be as silly as to blame their own choices on companys...never really ends well.

 

EDIT: 500th post!

[Tirien]

I could never be vegatarian, id end up losing weight so fast it wouldnt even be funny. Good thing I love bacon too much to ever give it up.

 

Bacon, the new skribbane.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Tirien, Master of Bacon

I could never be vegatarian, id end up losing weight so fast it wouldnt even be funny.

I hear this a lot, but I've never heard of anyone becoming a vegetarian and losing a lot of weight unless they also switched to a starvation diet. Bread, butter, beans, oil, and cheese all have plenty of calories in them.

—Alorael, who supposes he could see it as a weight loss diet if you found all non-meat foods entirely unappetizing, but he knows exactly one person who fits that category, and it's mostly due to extensive food allergies.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Bring me your lemons!

—Alorael, who supposes he could see it as a weight loss diet if you found all non-meat foods entirely unappetizing, but he knows exactly one person who fits that category, and it's mostly due to extensive food allergies.

even alec eats some things that aren't meat. it's just most of them don't have much energy content

[Artemis~]

Quote:

—Alorael, who supposes he could see it as a weight loss diet if you found all non-meat foods entirely unappetizing,but he knows exactly one person who fits that category, and it's mostly due to extensive food allergies.

This is probably 100% rumor, but i've heard around that meats actually took away from your life span. >.< Though this is probably only true if you have some strange intestinal disease that prohibits your body from digesting meat correctly.

On another note, most of my family is vegan and perfectly normal sized.

[Alorael at Large]

Meat doesn't reduce life expectancy per se, but studies have largely found that vegetarians, pescetarians, and occasional meat-eaters have slightly longer life expectancies than regular meat-eaters. There are plenty of confounding factors, so it's not trivial. On the other hand, vegans have also been found to have lower life expectancies—and again, without clear and unconflicting data.

 

—Alorael, who wouldn't put much trust in any of the perpetual dietary rumors floating around. You can try to get information from scientific literature, but prepare to read a lot of literature.

[Slawbug]

Correlation is not causation: and there are an IMMENSE TON of physiological, psychological, and sociological factors that are related to dietary choices, so...

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: Artemis~

...Everything is all calories, anyway...

This tends to be true of most food... Unless you eat copious amounts of celery, or some such.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Correlation is not causation: and there are an IMMENSE TON of physiological, psychological, and sociological factors that are related to dietary choices, so...

Originally Posted By: Bring me your lemons!

Meat doesn't reduce life expectancy per se, but studies have largely found that vegetarians, pescetarians, and occasional meat-eaters have slightly longer life expectancies than regular meat-eaters. There are plenty of confounding factors, so it's not trivial.

Not trivial to isolate the impact of diet, anyway.

—Alorael, who encourages ethical reasons for diet. Those, at least, are clear-cut. Like animals? Eat meat and dairy to encourage farming. Hate animals? Turn to veganism so the farming ends and the animal populations drop.

[VCH]

Personally I'd be fine with a food pill that could satisfy my needs for the whole day.

[keira]

I like vegetarians. The more of them, the more meat for me

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Originally Posted By: Artemis~

This is probably 100% rumor, but i've heard around that meats actually took away from your life span.

I saw on my local NBC news a few months ago that some Vegan guy was promoting his views by saying that that was how it was first done in the Bible. Before the Flood, people ate only fruits and vegetables and lived for hundreds of years. It wasn't until after the Flood that God allowed humans to kill animals for meat and subsequently the lifespan of man shortened to just a few decades over the next 1,000 years. This was what the Vegan guy said anyway.


Post # 451

[Tirien]

Dont forget about the cannibals. Everytime they eat someone, there's one less person to eat your meat.

 

Ok that didnt come out quite right. I blame the fact that I havent slept in about 26 hours.