Favorite Character[G5]

[Alexwood]

Who is your favorite character in Geneforge 5?

 

Mine is 'Shaper Conason', the one from Lethia Pass. He is like me in many ways or who I like to be at least.

[Øther]

Mine where the non-hostile rats. If you talked to them, they said "Squeak."

[The Ratt]

I also enjoyed the non-hostile rats. I took a screenshot to remember our encounter.

 

One encounter that sticks out in my mind was the drakon that is encountered after the non-hostile rats. It was interesting to converse with a non-snooty drakon.

[The Ninjas Doom]

the person you play as

[Geneforgeisformeyukkyu]

The person I like most is Mehkan (I think she is a female) because she has the nicest personality. She also seems the most sane to me, but thats just me.

 

Oh yeah, does anyone know what gender our character is if we're a shaper? The gender stuff Jeff introduced kind of confused me, especially since in one of the endings, my character looks like a female.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisforme

Oh yeah, does anyone know what gender our character is if we're a shaper? The gender stuff Jeff introduced kind of confused me, especially since in one of the endings, my character looks like a female.

Your PC is whatever gender you want it to be. Canonically, the game features plenty of male and female Shapers. And yeah, the Guardian/Agent gender stuff was confusing (and completely stupid, in Dikiyoba's opinion).

[Shaper Tristan]

Gotta go with Alwan in G5 but for the series I prefer Miranda.

[Alexwood]

Miranda? Well Conason is actuly pretty sain he is in the pass away from all other shapers for that reason. He thinks its horrible how the shapers fight over control over another instead of fighting the enemy. Which is what I kinda think, even though its fun to be able to attack other shapers because another shaper said (not actuly attacking but indirectly).

[The Ratt]

Oh, I thought of another encounter that I liked. The damaged mind in the Trial Halls.

 

"Death means entry into sect. Victory means honored burial.... No, is backward."

[Acky]

Probably either Alwan or Astoria. Best written characters of the game, in my opinion.

 

I didn't like how Greta got a backseat in G5.

[Dikiyoba]

Litalia, despite the managled backstory.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Mea Tulpa]

For G5, I have to say Rawul. He isn't an appealing character, of course, but he was a refreshingly plausible and well-delineated character.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Litalia, despite the managled backstory.

Dikiyoba.

I'd have to agree. But here backstory isn't so much mangled as it isn't quite as clear as it could be. She clearly was a character who stuck by her "ideals", otherwise she wouldn't have switched factions every game. It's just that we never get the full picture of what she wants. In the first game, she wants revenge against the Shapers. In the second game, she wants unity amongst the Rebels. In the third game, she wants peace and an end to shaping. Personally, I don't believe that she's schizophrenic, just that there's a hidden motive that we (and perhaps she) aren't aware of.

Plus, she also is the only person who has seen all sides of the conflict, aside from some of the very, very old characters on Sucia. This sort of gives her a unique perspective on what the sides are doing and why she chose correctly.

I'm also a fan of Alwan, since his determination and desire to win at any cost make him quite a compelling character, even if I don't quite agree with him and his values.

The other faction leaders just don't resonate. Astoria is too idealistic, Ghaldring is just insane, Greta isn't strong enough to lead the rebellion to victory, Taygen is so shortsighted he'll hurt himself more than he'll hurt the Rebels, and Rawal is too apathetic. Of course, it could also be said that Alwan is a fascist and Litalia is a traitor, if we're going for the "uniformly bad" motif, it's just that I think Alwan and Litalia are the only characters whose positives outweigh their flaws.

If we're also going with "fave series characters", then G1 would be a tie between Darian, Trajkov, and Ellrah, G2 would be Pinner and Syros, G3 would be Khyryk, and G4 would be Khyryk, Greta, Miranda, and Alwan.


EDIT: W00T! 1500 posts! I'm a Guardian now!

[Mea Tulpa]

I believe the mangled backstory refers to the fact that she has given significantly different versions of her early experiences, especially in Drypeak Valley, in different games.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Slartucker

I believe the mangled backstory refers to the fact that she has given significantly different versions of her early experiences, especially in Drypeak Valley, in different games.

Yes, that is what Dikiyoba was refering to. Dikiyoba happens to like the G3 version better than the G5 version.

[The Ratt]

Of the factions leaders, I was strongly attracted to Alwan because of his determination and because I tend to lean shaper. Taygen was too cruel. Astoria seemed too relaxed. I also really liked Litalia because of her history and perspective, as well as I am a true trakovite at heart, but I'm not sure I agree with her methods completely. Greta would have been nice to have as an option, because she is realistic about what should come from the rebellion, but what she wants is different enough from what Ghaldring wants that she would have to be another faction.

 

Honestly I thought Jeff butchered the encounter with Ghaldring. He just seemed to haughty, like he didn't care about you. He was no longer the charismatic and strong leader that he had been in the past. There was also not enough build up to the first time you meet Ghaldring; I felt no suspense before I met him. I think it would have been better if you worked with one of Ghaldring's liutenents and didn't get to see him until you told the luitenent you were ready to swear loyalty, then actually swore loyalty to Ghaldring and worked with him afterwards.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

He was no longer the charismatic and strong leader that he had been in the past. There was also not enough build up to the first time you meet Ghaldring; I felt no suspense before I met him. I think it would have been better if you worked with one of Ghaldring's liutenents and didn't get to see him until you told the luitenent you were ready to swear loyalty, then actually swore loyalty to Ghaldring and worked with him afterwards.

He never was a charismatic and strong leader- the only one who gives that impression is Litalia in the first game, and that's only because she was essentially his third-in-command behind Akhari Blaze.

In both G4 and G5, the only games where you actually encounter him, he comes off as a manipulating, conniving, and haughty because he doesn't care about you or any other human (he even ditched Litalia when she was no longer useful. I'm pretty sure that that was exactly the way he was supposed to come off.

[Mod.]

A little late to post, was gone for a while. Not sure which character i like best, but for now, I'm going for Heustess.

[The Ratt]

Who is Heustess? I don't remember him in GF5.

[Dikiyoba]

Heustess is only in G1.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

Who is Heustess? I don't remember him in GF5.

Heustess was one of the original natives of Sucia who became immortal through a magical accident (possibly involving a rubber band, a particle accelerator, and a ham sandwich). He gives you a quest to slay Gottesch, and if you complete it, I believe he gives you a point in endurance. He's interesting because he had the island to himself for 2000 years before Danette came, and he's also got some pretty cool dialogue.

[Mod.]

Oh, didn't realize this was a G5 topic. In that case, I now chose the intelligent ornk.

[Unplayable Playable Character]

Heusstess ftw.

 

Sharon from G2 deserves an honorable mention, IMO.

 

One thing that I felt was missing from G5 were more references to the other games. I was really hoping to find some kind of Shaper library, and have a few of the records in there clear up what happened to some of the interesting side-characters (Like Sharon or Khyryk).

 

I was actually expecting to find Khyryk's body somewhere, or at least his grave.

 

Ah... wishful thinking.

[Mea Tulpa]

Khyryk can hardly be considered a side-character. He is central to a small part of the plot in two games, which is more than almost anyone else can say. Seriously, who gets more screen time? Alwan, Greta, Litalia, Ghaldring... anyone else?

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Khyryk can hardly be considered a side-character. He is central to a small part of the plot in two games, which is more than almost anyone else can say. Seriously, who gets more screen time? Alwan, Greta, Litalia, Ghaldring... anyone else?

Well, let's see: Trajkov, Pinner, Darian, Syrosss, Isss-ta, Zakary, Barzhal, Easss, the guardian in command of the Ashen Isles whose name I forgot, Akhari Blaze, Miranda, Mehkan, Astoria, Rawal, Taygen, and all five of the PC's.

Hell, even Danette is a better developed character with more screen time than Khyryk, and hot only do you never meet her, she's been dead for centuries!

[Mea Tulpa]

I have to say I disagree with most of those. On the one hand, you threw in characters who happened to be in two or three games but had nothing interesting to say in any of them. I mean, Issss-ta, seriously? Yes, she's in three games, but she has bit parts in each of them. Totally non-essential. Same thing for Learned Darian.

 

On the other hand, you have characters who were in only one game, and had pretty comparable screen time to Khyryk's, but were in no other games. Miranda, Mehken, and General Greiner are probably the worst offenders here, but Astoria, Rawal, Taygen, and Easss all fit as well.

 

Zakary, Barzahl, Trajkov, Akhari Blaze, and maybe Syros and Pinner I suppose I'll accept.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

On the other hand, you have characters who were in only one game, and had pretty comparable screen time to Khyryk's, but were in no other games. Miranda, Mehken, and General Greiner are probably the worst offenders here, but Astoria, Rawal, Taygen, and Easss all fit as well.

Keep in mind that in G3, Khyryk was pretty minor NPC. All he does is give you a quest to liberate the Shapers and chill in his tower. He's not even that important in G4- all he does is get captured by Monarch, free himself, and then talk with you (telling you nothing you couldn't figure out yourself) in the Greyghosts. He's the not-really-a-leader of not-really-a-faction who's totally noncritical to most of the action of the game. Really the only thing that made him notable was his writing and his dialog.

By that criteria, there are plenty of characters with bit parts and interesting dialog and exposition that would be "on par" with Khyryk. Just because people were "only in one game" dosen't necessarily mean that they are side characters with no plot relevance. There are more than I just listed above- by the metric of "actual plot relevance", plenty of NPC's are more important than Khyryk, even if we never actually meet them or interect with them. Looking at just G1, we have Ellrah, Gottesch, the nameless Servile who founded the Takers, the Priest shade in the Wastes, and Danette.

Let's do an in-depth case study on Gottesch, for example. He's clearly a well-developed character, as he's essentially the second most important living character in the game. His backstory is well though out- he's a Shaper who landed on the island by accident, much like you, and encountered Trajkov. Trajkov saw an opportunity to work together and unravel the secrets of Sucia, but all Gottesch saw was outsiders to be bent to his will and used. This is the first indication of how his backstory ties into his personality- he's making choices that we never see, but that we know are totally consistent with his personality. Slowly, his arrogance and disdain for the Sholai begin to be seen, and Trajkov and him grow distant. Eventually, they quarrel, and Gottesch leaves, taking the gloves with him. This is, again, an example of his personality. He's doing this because he wants the power to himself, not what is best for others. He flees to the Wastes and establishes his base in the Great Temple, yet again showing his animosity towards others by shunning Heustess and forcing him out of the temple, which he subsequently desecrates.

Now, let's skip ahead to the PC's arrival. He has now become powerful enough to help you depose Trajkov, because he wants power for himself. It is at this point that he exponds on his philosophy, telling you how all are subversient to those with power, and those with power are inherently superior because they were able to obtain power (I'm paraphrasing here, it's been awhile since I've spoke with him, as he's already dead in my only G1 endgame save.) His philosophy is, at this point, novel and original. He has clear motivations and aims, and a clear path to get them. If you aid him, he ignores the fact that you helped him and dismisses you, seeing only what he wants. In short, he's an excellently written, fresh, and original villian, with clear motivations, backstory, and good dialogue. What he wants in instantly clear, and it's also clear what you will gt if you help him- nada.

Now, let's contrast this with Khyryk. While Khyryk may have had a backstory, it was nowhere near as clear. While Gottesch has repungant motives and evil desires, they are clear and we can see not only the consequences, but also the mindset that he was raised in that brough this about. Khyryk waffles and is indecisive on his own morality and his aims. At first he's a pro-Rebel shaper who's a Loyalist (what?), then he becomes a conflicted Trakovite ex-Shaper, which makes little to no sense. Gottesch is competent- he's able to hold back a larger foe with infinitely more resources, canisters, magical firepower, manpower, and that even has posession of the Geneforge. Khyryk is not able to free a handful of Shapers, despite being able to teleport at will and the command of powerful creations and magic. Even in G4, all he demonstrates is his abilty to break someone's protecti bonds. Later, we get to witness his extraordinary ability to sit in a cave! Finally, we can witness the impact they had on the world, arguably the most important metric of their relevance. Gottesch, by delaying Trajkov enough to allow the PC to arrive and destroy the Geneforge, enabled the entire events of the series to pass. He was the first truly radical pro-power, anti-Creation character we see, and was obviously the template for Barzhal in G2. Khyryk, on the other hand, gives you a cloak and some advice. In G4, he tells you nonessential advice if you choose to follow the Trakovite path- you can do without it.

So Gottesch far, far more important than Khyryk, who in the one who actually plays a bit part in the series, contrary to what you claimed. The line of argument above can be duplicated for many, many others, both in G1 and beyond. Just because someone says something interesting and recurs a few times, doesn't make them integral to the plot by any means. Khyryk had none of the force of personality that the other, more important NPC's had, ala Litalia, Ghaldring, Alwan, et al.- he was just a wandering, confused ex-Shaper, no one of much consequence or importance- at all.

[Mea Tulpa]

TL, DR.

 

JK... but sheesh I'll try to reply to your main points without arguing over minutiae.

 

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Keep in mind that in G3, Khyryk was pretty minor NPC. All he does is give you a quest to liberate the Shapers and chill in his tower.

This is simply not true. Let's look at this from a few angles:

(1) Actual importance to area in game world. Khyryk was the head honcho on his island, much like Diwaniya and similar to Rahul, although Rahul was a step up. So he's the most important figure for 1/6 of the game (I'll count Rahul's island as two parts). On this count, he is clearly equal to most faction leaders (any game).

(2) Importance to story flow. You are required to talk to Khyryk on multiple occasions, and for fully 50% of the game's routes, you are required to kill him. He doesn't just give a random quest. On this count he's less relevant than a faction leader but more important than anyone else.

(3) Position re philosophical views represented in the game. Khyryk is the sole, serious representative of any non-Rebel, non-Shaper view in all of G3. Since the Awakened were probably the most popular faction in the earlier games and the Trakovites were acclaimed (if less popular) in later games, this is pretty relevant. On this count he is on par with Litalia, Greta, and Alwan in terms of his significance to G3.

 

In G4 he is certainly less important to the area and the story. Nonetheless he remains the major representative of the non-Shaper, non-Rebel viewpoint.

 

As far as screen time goes, that's a bit more objective. Whether or not you find Goettsch more interesting or more important than Khyryk, Khyryk does get more screen time.

[Unplayable Playable Character]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Hell, even Danette is a better developed character with more screen time than Khyryk, and hot only do you never meet her, she's been dead for centuries!

Isn't she in the G1 bonus dungeon?

As for Khyryk, I agree with Dantius on this one. In G3 he wasn't really central to the plot, he just served to move it along. In G4 his involvement is completely unnecessary, the game would be exactly the same without him, minus the trakovite sub-plot and ending.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

(1) Actual importance to area in game world. Khyryk was the head honcho on his island, much like Diwaniya and similar to Rahul, although Rahul was a step up. So he's the most important figure for 1/6 of the game (I'll count Rahul's island as two parts). On this count, he is clearly equal to most faction leaders (any game).

Nope. He's not the leader of the island- that would be Agatha. You know, the actual appointed representative of the Shapers ? She's the one who went crazy on the canisterss before being overthrown by the Serviles.

Plus, he's not actually like a "faction leader" in that he's not, you know, a faction leader. That would be kind of obvious, I would think.

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

(2) Importance to story flow. You are required to talk to Khyryk on multiple occasions, and for fully 50% of the game's routes, you are required to kill him. He doesn't just give a random quest. On this count he's less relevant than a faction leader but more important than anyone else.

You are not "required" to talk to Khyryk. You can just waltz in and free Agatha without speaking to him at all. Also, you are not "required" to speak to him at all if you are a Rebel. Just walk on in and kill him.

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

(3) Position re philosophical views represented in the game. Khyryk is the sole, serious representative of any non-Rebel, non-Shaper view in all of G3. Since the Awakened were probably the most popular faction in the earlier games and the Trakovites were acclaimed (if less popular) in later games, this is pretty relevant. On this count he is on par with Litalia, Greta, and Alwan in terms of his significance to G3.

That would be great, except for the fact that there isn't a non-Shaper, non-Rebel ending to the game. So the point is moot, seeing as his views have no representative endgame and are thus irrelevant to the progression of the story.

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

In G4 he is certainly less important to the area and the story. Nonetheless he remains the major representative of the non-Shaper, non-Rebel viewpoint.

Aside from Drewey and Shorass, and occasional Trakovite sentiments voiced by others, yes. But like Unknown NPC said, you could replace him here with any stock character and it would make absolutely no difference to the story.

[Mea Tulpa]

Hmm. I seem to have misremembered a few things about G3. Pity; it was more interesting in my memory than when I went back and looked at the scripts for Gull Island. I do have to say:

 

Originally Posted By: Dantius

So the point is moot, seeing as his views have no representative endgame and are thus irrelevant to the progression of the story.

This confuses me. If we're talking about representing different perspectives on the various ethical continua that recur throughout the Geneforge games, why is a specific endgame required? I agree it's a nice thing to have, but the view (and those players who sympathize with it) exists regardless of whether or not it's an endgame option.

[Alexwood]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Khyryk can hardly be considered a side-character. He is central to a small part of the plot in two games, which is more than almost anyone else can say. Seriously, who gets more screen time? Alwan, Greta, Litalia, Ghaldring... anyone else?

Well, let's see: Trajkov, Pinner, Darian, Syrosss, Isss-ta, Zakary, Barzhal, Easss, the guardian in command of the Ashen Isles whose name I forgot, Akhari Blaze, Miranda, Mehkan, Astoria, Rawal, Taygen, and all five of the PC's.

Hell, even Danette is a better developed character with more screen time than Khyryk, and hot only do you never meet her, she's been dead for centuries!

What about that crazie guy in the medab research place where he like let you get changed and shapes you or whatever? haha

[Alexwood]

Haha is it funny to reply fight about this? ITS HILLARIOUS, there both about equal, khyrk has 1 full position on the island then leaves a game later. Gosettch (sorry for spelling), has a full position on Sucida island and doesnt move and is more developed and straight forward. Making them both equal but different in different places.

[Unplayable Playable Character]

Tuldaric is less plot-central than Khyryk, you don't even get to talk to him unless you join a certain faction. Although he is an important member of that faction, he is not entirely central to it. He certainly gets less screen time. He's a crazy, eccentric Shaper, dedicated to achieving what he sees as the best path. There are dozens of characters in the Geneforge series like this, so his characterization is nothing unique.

 

On the other hand, one could say that he represents the Magus Complex and the resulting magic serviles which we have seen in the next three installments. In fact, if not for him the servile class in G4/5 wouldn't be able to use magic or shape. So he does hold significant historical impact that Khyryk does not (arguably, Khyryk influenced G4's PC to do the Trakovite ending, although I'm not sure how canonical that is). However as a character I would say that Khyryk is more developed.

[ghdfans2010]

SPAAAAAAAM