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A6 - A strange idea for character builds.

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I started this last night -- just to see how it *might* work. I figured it might work against low-level critters, so I'll see. What I did was essentially do an all-stats kinda build


So I created 4 Slith, and ....


my 2 tanks, I did 6 Str, 5 Dex, 4 Int, 6 End -- so as to ultimately unlock Blademaster, Anatomy, Quick Strike and a whole host of specials. they went EW, DT of course


my 2 spell casters went 4 Str, 5 Dex, 6 Int, 6 End -- so as to unlock ME, and other needed specials.


-- so the stats look good -- but the skills are aweful ..:( so I know I will need to build up critical things like spellss, tools, poles, etc, tec ..




So how crazy is this idea? -- is it *maybe* just a tough challenge game, or is it a dead-end idea?



no need to worry about weight issues

Damage is good with all 4 characters (when they hit)

Special abilities will unlock (once I get the skills)

they are Sliths -- Xtra HP, resists

Pole arms -- good damage w/ bad skills and good str.



No Skills -- very sad situation at 1st lv.

No battle skills anytime soon..:(

No special abilities like Dual weapons or Blademaster soon ..:(

No tools skills (*can* be build up fairly fast)

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Very interesting. A good start, even if you have no skills. Normally, once I get into the game, I usually seem to neglect those basic stats. Since this is the beginning, you don't have to worry that much over everything killing you because of your lack of skills. By the time they really matter, you should (hopefully) have them. Because of your lack of tool use (and I'm assuming Nature lore) you will need to skip a lot in the first few areas, but then go back and collect those things again.


What difficulty will this be?


What traits do you have for your casters, and do they have any spells?


Do you have any points in First aid? If you don't, it would be a good idea to put some in soon. It helps a bit early on, but later in the game I almost never had to heal/use potions (out of combat) because of it.

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yeah, my "priest" went PS/DT and my "mage" went NM/DT -- so they had spells, but with a skill of 2(@ 1st lv), getting new spell training is difficult.


and yeah, NO First AId, Arcane Lore, Nature Lore .. nada .. so for most, 1st lv looks very bleak .. lol


I am currently 7th Lev .. almost 8 -- just NOW getting towards Patrick and doing the last of the 3 main quests before Great Portal quest.


doing all the side quests I can for any xp --


1 thing I can say about the first few levels .. OMG what a pain, but once I had Nature Lore, Arcane Lore, First Aid, Luck settled -- I could work on weapons & spell skills


The most "difficult area" was fighting the Kitty Cult -- since my bow skills are 0 -- yes, you saw that right -- ZERO in bows, so getting thru that cult was a pain ..:p. I still need to fight that Hellhound, which by now I figure will be easy to kill.


The party overall is a really hardcore in-your face combat machine. I am using a Fine Slith w/ 3 Steel spears and seeing my mage do 40+ dam per hit makes me smile .. lol. I am using Protect/Bless/Haste on a continual basis -- so with the relativly low weapon skills -- I can still hit stuff. This party is definately NOT into ranged combat -- it gets close and bloody fast.



Good damage -- I will see what hitting that Ogre is like -- as he is tough for a low level party. So is that mage in the Inn (E of the Castle)

Good HP -- Man, that high End for everybody is awesome to have -- saved my butt several times. (allows me to hoard those return life scrolls).

Good Armor -- Everybody is wearing heavy armor, & due to the str of each character, I am not loosing any AP at all .. so it makes QA boosts even better.



Paitience NEEDED -- This is a real challenging game, as those good stats give characters great potential, but it's a race to "develop" them in terms of skills for the later areas of the game.

Lack of early tools skill -- this is a real toughie here. as it totally strips any development for the character until tools is raised to a "comfortable level"

[i have him currently at a 10 so I can boost his bow skills now]

Wisdom Crystals -- Man, these are even MORE critical, since you really have to be careful on who you give these too now -- it feels like a strategic move.

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Go see the priest in Dharmon for some blessings to get weapon skills since those don't affect training or skill point buying. That should give some of your characters battle disciplines.


Get control foe at Patrick's Tower and the mage east of the Castle will be easier.

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Go see the priest in Dharmon for some blessings to get weapon skills since those don't affect training or skill point buying. That should give some of your characters battle disciplines.

I'm currently playing a torment game in which I'm trying to optimize my characters (i.e., I'm not using sp for anything I can train with a trainer (except for mage skill) until I buy all of the levels available). It's been tough, but it is starting to pay dividends. My biggest problem is coming up with the money to buy the training. I am picking up and/or stealing *everything* with any value, and I'm still struggling to buy the basic training for the people who need it (let alone things like melee and pole for my mage and priest to get diciplines). I've done almost everything in the Great Cave, Western Reaches, Great Portal/Tower Colony, and around Mertis, and am now heading into the Abyss, but I could still easily spend 50,000 coins if I had it. There just isn't much money in the early/early-mid game. Unless I'm missing something...

Also, I noticed that the Dharmon priest's blessing will raise your pole skill (for example), but that does not count as buying a level of the skill for the purposes of unlocking skills. Bummer.

Get control foe at Patrick's Tower and the mage east of the Castle will be easier.

I so rarely have any luck with control foe that I usually don't think about it. How would you use it in this case, against a single enemy?
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I managed to get lightning up to level 8, and I used it for the rest of the game. Of course, when I last played, ME didn't affect AoE spells, so I would probably do something different now. But still, it is a great spell. Try to get it if you can.

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I did something sort of similar, as I wanted to really push into the role playing aspect of the game.


I created four sliths. Sort of a heroes of the horde aspect. Why keep four sliths in the army down in the castle food depot? Because people might have a hard time trusting them with the current crisis.


Anyhow, I didn't want a free walk through the game. I didn't want big shiny heroes. I didn't want this to be just another run through the game on auto pilot. So... No elite warrior and no divinely touched. I figured I'd get through on cunning and spells.


The first slith was fast on feet and pure spirit. The second slith was pure spirit and deadeye, my only combat trait. The third slith was natural mage and nimble fingers. The fourth was pure spirit and natural mage. And I did this on torment, for kicks and giggles and because I am a stupid jackass.


The beginning was impossible. There was some death, a few reloads, and it was rough going until I was able to get smite. After smite, it went from impossible to insanely difficult.


My deadeye slith became my main source of physical damage. While I could in fact, poke something with my spears, the deadeye slith became my dedicated lancer, using missile weapons, and he pulled the whole party out of the fire on more than one occasion. Oh yeah, racial role playing was in effect, so NO BOWS. Bows are kitty weapons. Proud sliths use spears for melee and throwing.


They wound up mostly armored, except for number four, who had both priest and mage spells, she wore the enchanter's robe. No shields because of spears.


The game seemed to drag on forever, each battle was a prolonged conflict, battles were won and lost on the ability to cast spells and keep summons up and moving. Not having somebody with all those free levels of parry meant that nobody could stand around and absorb all the incoming damage.


I almost abandoned the game on more than one occasion, until I reached the point where I had to enter the abyss, and then it was like a turning point. Instead of just barely surviving, I was actually beginning to thrive. I could cast spells, and lots of them. I had smites and icy rains enough to go around. I was able to retrieve the papers and get dispel barrier before level 20, something I hadn't been able to do before even with dedicated tanks. I handled the Silvar level of quests with ease, finding the cultists and so on.


And it was back to being near impossible when I had to invade slith lands. I couldn't take a lot of damage, but boy howdy, I could dish out the hurt when I had to.


During the big battle at the gate with Solberg, I had pretty much unlimited spell casting ability thanks to magical efficiency. It didn't take much to send a character to near death, They were all fragile, but they could dish it out.


It wound up being my favourite run, I guess because at the end, after all that work, it felt like they had earned it, something that most of my adventurers never get a chance to feel.


There is one particularly nice advantage to having sliths. With a few items and so on, fire damage stops being a concern at some point. Having something blast you with roaring flames and seeing it only do 5 damage is rather amusing, especially when you see that 150+ of that damage was resisted. Also, having high hit points helped a lot since there was no dedicated tank. Everybody had 10 or more endurance by late midgame.


While the kitties are statistically better, sliths are no slouch when it comes down to raw role playing ability. Even with out all those free levels of blademaster, I could run up and poke something for well over 100 damage past the midgame. Everybody had anatomy.

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Originally Posted By: So Much Killing
Get control foe at Patrick's Tower and the mage east of the Castle will be easier.

I so rarely have any luck with control foe that I usually don't think about it. How would you use it in this case, against a single enemy?

That is a special case where you wait for the mage to summon monsters and then you use control foe to turn them against him.

This also works with the Tunnel Horror.
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Well, I just finished up the Crystalspawn sidequest in Portal Tower -- so everybody then knows my Slith are 10th lev.


a little update on how the party is developing ..


1) For my first "blessing" - I chose 'spear', as the party are all pole arm users. It saves a whole level+ for that.


2) My main Tank is up to 10 Pole and is starting on Quick Strike. Next level, after buying a bit more Pole, new special abilitiers should pop up. His 7 Blademaster level helps with fatigue and Battle manuvers.


3) I am keeping the Singing Blade and Blessed Shortswords -- just in case I have spare points put into Melee later on.


4) The "mage" having Spellcraft 11, ME 8, Magery 6 is pounding out some nice spells now. So he is fast becoming a "real" mage -- one that can swing a Steel spear nicely ..:p. I know I need to increase his Magery to take advantage of trainers again ..:(.


5) My tools guy -- stable at skill 11 -- will get him to 12 skill when he levels. So most doors will be opened with that skill. But sadly his Pole/Bow skills are at 4 -- pitiful as we know, but expected for going all stats at the beginning.


6) The "priest" is like my 'mage' ... heavy into Spellcraft, ME, and so on -- so also now a MUCH more capable spellcaster. Once ME really gets up -- the smites will fly off his hands. So he also is becoming more of a spellcaster-support




So over-all:


The Party still is very much a get in close and fight hard kinda party. Due to the Spellcraft levels, spells do much more damage, so I have options with the 'mage' and so I don't NEED to put him frontline like before (although, he is still a very capable mage, and can swing that Spear if the energy ever got that low -- which at this point, it doesn't). The Tank and "archer" definatly charge in and hack stuff to bits as I see my main tank doing 75+ damage per stike sometimes. So the party seems to slowly develop into a "regular" party, albeit one very hand-combat capable.

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