Looking Back On The Series...

[BathosAndPathos]

So, yep, looking back on the series, what would you guys say was your favourite system ( in terms of world movement, skills etc ) and what was your favourite game?

 

For me, personally, it has to be the early Avernum games ( Avernum 1-3 ) and Avernum 3. There was a sense of urgency, it had perfected the graphical style of Avernum 1&2, and you got to explore both the overworld and Avernum itself. I loved the maps, the combat system, the vast variety of spells, pretty much everything about it. I never played Exile, however, and I didn't really feel like it after finishing the Avernum games.

 

So, yes, how about all of you?

[cfgauss]

I think my favorite game is Exile 2. It's one of the only games that had more of a sense of exploration in it. You had a whole new unexplored area that you were the first human to see, outside areas seemed large (unlike the newer Avernums). I also like the old hidden wall system, it was always fun to find some hidden area in the side of a cave wall by carefully exploring (even if there wasn't much in it).

 

I also liked the old magic system, even though for the most part you only used a small number of spells, there was always the possibility to do something more clever or tricky with one of the less common spells. The larger number of spells also made magic feel more real.

 

The simplified graphics were also kind of nice, because they were simple enough that the stylized representation looked reasonable, but in the newer games the more realistic, but still "stylized" graphics can look a bit awkward sometimes.

 

But in terms of the UI, I think the newer Avernums are much nicer. They're a lot easier to play in a lot of ways, UI related tasks are a lot more intuitive, and it plays a lot more smoothly in a lot of ways.

 

I also like the new battle disciplines a lot, but wish there could be a magic equivalent of them, which would help a lot with the less diverse magic system compared to Exile.

 

The biggest negative I think the newer Avernums have, though, is the lack of a sense of exploration compared to the Exile series. I always thought that was the most fun part. Now, there are smaller areas to explore, and I seem to be accosted my monsters a lot more frequently when I want to explore the details and atmosphere in some places.

[Alorael at Large]

A1-3 had outdoors. Those in themselves make a huge difference.

 

But then A5 and A6 have much more interesting tricky combats, battle disciplines, and some secret doors that reward searching in a way that isn't wall-bashing. The wall-bashing got old eventually.

 

So, my favorite system? I don't know. I'd love to have the A6 engine with outdoors. The huge selection of spells in Exile would be nice too. And while I favor the switch-based secret doors, I'd like to see them as ubiquitous as in A1-3.

 

—Alorael, who lists his favorite game as A2. He thinks A6 is better without the nostalgia factor, though, and A5 is very solid. His ranking might be A2, A6, A5, A1, A3, A4. E3, E2, and E1 come last in that order; he simply doesn't like their engine very much, and the games are nicely redone in A1-3.

[Mea Tulpa]

Exile 2 FTW, always and forever.

[Serene Tempest]

I second what Alorael said, though I got on board with A2 so I can't really comment on prior games.

 

I think A3 was my favorite, mostly because of the plot. It wasn't as detailed and fleshed out as the A5/A6, but I liked the basic idea the best. I'd go A3, A2, A6, A5, A4.

[Jean-Philippe]

Exile 2 is my favorite game. Maybe I am biased because Exile 2 was my first game and I had the pleasure of exploring the world. However, its plot is, by far, the best of the serie.

 

As for the system, I still like Exile of course but character developement is far more elaborate in Avernum, especially in Avernum 4-6. From exile I miss the variety of spells, even if only a minority were used, and especially the 6 characters parties (please Jeff...). More characters, more different ways to spend XP, more different objects to use, more options in combat... I can't understand those who play with a singleton.

 

Avernum 1-3 brought better graphics of course, but also more elaborate character developement. Fighting is much more than just bringing the strangh to 20. However items were rather dull as I saw yesterday when I openned a last game save file of Avernum 2.

 

Avernum 4-6 has brought us even better graphics, more skill to buy and really nice objects. At first, I didn't like the continuous world (no outdoor/indoor) as the wotld seem smaller this way. But I get used to it and it's far better for small locations, small encounters and secondary quests.

I like the new skill system, but I would prefer them not hidden, even if, thanks to the forum, they are not hidden so much. After 25 years of tabletop RPG and board wargaming I like detailled rulebooks and documentation to refer to.

[BathosAndPathos]

Originally Posted By: Jean-Philippe

Avernum 1-3 brought better graphics of course, but also more elaborate character developement. Fighting is much more than just bringing the strangh to 20. However items were rather dull as I saw yesterday when I openned a last game save file of Avernum 2.

Avernum 4-6 has brought us even better graphics, more skill to buy and really nice objects. At first, I didn't like the continuous world (no outdoor/indoor) as the wotld seem smaller this way. But I get used to it and it's far better for small locations, small encounters and secondary quests.
I like the new skill system, but I would prefer them not hidden, even if, thanks to the forum, they are not hidden so much. After 25 years of tabletop RPG and board wargaming I like detailled rulebooks and documentation to refer to.

After having a little play around with hex editting in Exile 3, I have to say my perfect Spiderweb game would consist of:

• Avernum 1-3's Overworld Map
• Avernum 6's Graphics
• Exile's variety of spells
• More variety in weapons. Give me maces and one handed spears!
• Less magical items and more items with certain properties. Fine / keen items etc.
• I'm torn on combat. Avernum 6 is nice, but I miss being able to run into weak monsters with my front character and killing them, it was such a quick way to do things, instead of having to go into combat.
• No more features being taken from Geneforge. There's a reason I don't play that series. >.<

[Mea Tulpa]

Originally Posted By: BathosAndPathos

• Exile's variety of spells
• More variety in weapons. Give me maces and one handed spears!
• Less magical items and more items with certain properties. Fine / keen items etc.

The second and third items also describe Exile, fwiw.

[BathosAndPathos]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Originally Posted By: BathosAndPathos

• Exile's variety of spells
• More variety in weapons. Give me maces and one handed spears!
• Less magical items and more items with certain properties. Fine / keen items etc.

The second and third items also describe Exile, fwiw.

Okay, so Exile under a newer engine is what I want. ;D

[Jean-Philippe]

Originally Posted By: BathosAndPathos

Okay, so Exile under a newer engine is what I want. ;D

I think Jeff is working on Avernum1-3 with A6 engine.
If only he could add more spells and resurect the fifth and sixth character ...

[Marak]

I think I have to mostly agree with what others have said: the seamless "no outdoors" of A4-6 looks good on paper, but it makes the "new gen" Avernum feel many, many times smaller than the "old gen" Avernum.

 

If/when Jeff redoes A1-3, it'd be great if he could find a way to keep the A6 graphics (which are amazing for a Spiderweb game) and yet, still have a "world map" that tranlates the sheer size of places like the Great Cave and the Eastern Gallery. Such a thing may not be possible, but hey, one can dream.

 

Of course, the "no outdoors" map does have huge perks, namely having hidden passages and hidden caches that don't require hours of carpal tunnel-induding Wall Humping™ to find. I adore hidden passages, but an hours-long Avernum 2 play session just wreaks havok on my wrists for days. I admit I was skeptical about the new "hey it's like Geneforge, just click and move there!" movement "system" when A4 hit, but once I spent all of A4 and A5 clicking on things, I find that it's now very hard to go back to playing the original trilogy with the Number Pad. I do like how Jeff brought back the A-Z keyboard shortcuts for targeting spells and ranged attacks, though. Clicking on the right beastie can sometimes be a challenge when they overlap in the isometric perspective.

 

I still have to say I like Avernum 2's plot the best. Not only are you exploring ALL of Avernum - literally, all of it - eventually, you also get to explore some of the Vahnatai lands for the first and only time. No, I don't count that little bit of the Frontier in A5.

 

The best part about A2? You complete the first three Chapters and think, "Whew, I've been thru a lot already, all I have to do now is rescue one of the Crystal Souls and I'll win!" and then you get thrown back into Avernum, in the Tower of the Magi, and realize that you have about 65% of the World Map still uncovered and not one, but THREE expansive, multi-step, game-winning quests to complete - not to mention the 100+ side quests from every Town, City, Fort, and Random NPCs House you stumble across. The exploration, the sense of urgency, the grand scope... those all make A2 my favorite plot.

 

The overpowered 8-points-per-Level system that allows all all 4 characters to have every Mage and Priest Spell and still have points left over for other stuff, while clearly broken when you consider what 4 Mages (who can also Heal like champs) with the high-end spells can do to just about any foe in the game, still makes for some amusingly overpowered gameplay (once you figure out that Magic Is King And Trumps Everything Else).

 

I'm going to say that I like Avernum 6's game system the best so far. Magic is still powerful but the lack of Skill Points and the scarsity of Wisdom Crystals and Knowledge Brews (compared to A4 and A5 where they were passed out like candy) makes it so that you really have to think about what you want your characters to be. Sure, you can still make that Mage/Priest but there's absolutely no way you can give him any points in anything but Mage/Priest Skills and Spellcraft and Intellect if you expect him to be able to keep up with learning all the latest and greatest spells. Yes, you can make that dual-wielding Fighter/Priest but you better pick one aspect to focus on, because if you try to pump both you're going to have a fighter that does poor damage and yet still can't cast Mass Cure when things get tight.

 

While I loved my overpowered, magic-monster teams from the original trilogy, the balance you find in A6 (with lessons leaned from A5 about not being able to unlock the Special Skills until long after it matters because of the sometimes ludicrous prerequisites) is far more challenging and fulfilling: you can slap together a Party of Hybrids and go kill monsters with great inefficiency, yes, but finding that balance of just how far you can push a character's second role before he becomes ineffective at both is, to me, rather addicting.

[Mea Tulpa]

A6 is definitely, definitely the most balanced game as far as mechanics and gameplay go. By a mile.

[Golgoth]

Bathos, I have a hard time seeing what they took from geneforge.

[Mea Tulpa]

The engine used by Avernum 4-6 is what they took from Geneforge. Avernum 4's engine is Geneforge 3's engine with a few big modifications -- namely, multiple PCs instead of creations, seamless map zones instead of discrete map zones, and grid stepping instead of freeform walking. Lots of the graphics, sounds, items, spells, enemy stats, and almost all the PC stats, come directly from Geneforge 3 and not from Avernum 3.

[Golgoth]

But the engine is not what he's talking about I think. I percived him talking about the ideas.

[Mea Tulpa]

Originally Posted By: Golgoth

But the engine is not what he's talking about I think. I percived him talking about the ideas.

Originally Posted By: BathosAndPathos

No more features being taken from Geneforge.

It sure sounds like he's talking about the engine.

[BathosAndPathos]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Originally Posted By: Golgoth

But the engine is not what he's talking about I think. I percived him talking about the ideas.

Originally Posted By: BathosAndPathos

No more features being taken from Geneforge.

It sure sounds like he's talking about the engine.

Pretty much. =p

EDIT: Although, there were a lot of concepts taken from Geneforge for Avernum 5/6. Moralistic choices, for one.

[Nioca]

The first game I played was A3, and for me, that was the one in the series that really seemed to shine. Massive world, tons of stuff to do, huge quest, best engine, so forth. A1 and A2 were too open, A4 used the crappy ported geneforge engine, A5 was a miniboss grindfest, and A6... well, it seems better than 5, but I haven't really been able to get into it as much as I'd like.

 

Also, I find it hilarious that A4 and A5 have tied in the number of people calling it their favorite, considering all the crap that gets dumped on A4.

 

As for favorite system, definitely the A1-3 system. It felt like it actually belonged to the series. The later system felt like it was jury-rigged in (probably because it was), and has always seemed rather funky to work with. Bring back the inventory in the automap, dang it!

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Nioca

Also, I find it hilarious that A4 and A5 have tied in the number of people calling it their favorite, considering all the crap that gets dumped on A4.

Avernum 4 got a lot of hate from people who played previous Avernums, but it was well liked among first-time Avernum players. A5 is better than A4, but it's underwhelming compared to A6 or the long-time favorites of E/A2 and 3. So Dikiyoba isn't too surprised by the current results.

[BathosAndPathos]

Originally Posted By: Marak

If/when Jeff redoes A1-3, it'd be great if he could find a way to keep the A6 graphics (which are amazing for a Spiderweb game) and yet, still have a "world map" that tranlates the sheer size of places like the Great Cave and the Eastern Gallery. Such a thing may not be possible, but hey, one can dream.

We will dream... Together.

[Wind Wolf]

I would love to see Exile I & II with the A6 engine but the original spells.

[DokEnkephalin]

1&2 were great games, but imo 3 was the very best. 4&5 seemed unnecessary, and when I finished I just felt kinda cheated.

 

While I appreciate the audiovisual enhancements of part 6, it still hasn't quite sold me yet on story or gameplay. It really hasn't kept me riveted like the original trilogy, so I suspect I'm going to reach a disappointing end, but it's too soon to say.

[cfgauss]

I never liked exile 3 much. It always felt more disorganized than the others (not related to the freedom to do stuff, just disorganized). Although I don't believe I ever played avernum 3? Or if I did, never past the demo area.

 

I like the story of 6 from what I've seen, but as I've mentioned I don't like the gameplay much.

[Soul of Wit]

A4 was, by far, the worst of the series. The linearity was mind numbing.

 

The sheer scope of E3 (A3) was glorious. I loved that I could actually get lost while exploring or hunting down a fabled weapon. Boats, horses and conveyor belts, oh my! You can keep your mirrors (A3 version of conveyor belts.)

 

Yes, it's great that the engine has improved. A6 is my second fave behind E3.

 

If you haven't played the earlier Avernums... do yourself the favor. Even A1 shines, compared to A4.

[DeathWolf]

I just finished A6... tears in the eyes... as almost like every time I finished an exile or avernum:)

 

For me Exile 2 was also the best, it was just amazing. Exile 1 was probably the least motivating to me even though it was the first... but maybe that's because it takes time to kick in.

 

I played A1-A3 with great passion albeit remembering a lot from before. But the whole graphics change made it worth it. A4 is probably the one I remember the least, and A5 second to that. A6 was one of the weakest story wise I think, but the rest has been quite polished and is extremely enjoyable.

 

 

Now all I need is an Avernum TV Series;)

[Dikiyoba]

I'm rather conflicted on A6. The good things tended to be really good and the annoying things tended to be really annoying. It's far, far better than A4 (which was tedious from the very beginning) or A5 (which got tedious the moment everything reached a bajillion hitpoints). Is it better than any of the original trilogy? I haven't decided yet. Probably; A3 was very plain. The generic NPCs, pointless towns, and uninteresting stretches of outdoors make the atmosphere fall flat. A1 is definitely showing its age, but it hangs in there because I can excuse its annoyances (like the lack of a quest list) on the fact that it is old while the annoyances of A6 (like the fact that I can't always tell explored and unexplored regions apart on the automap) have no such excuse.

 

So Dikiyoba's ranking of the entire series is A2, A1, A6, A3, and A4/A5. A2 is way above the others, and A4/A5 are way below.

[Mea Tulpa]

I largely agree, but I have to give A5 props for Battle Disciplines. Not only were they the first new mechanic in a SW game since 2002 (!), they were a really good mechanic that added to the game without taking anything away from it.

 

Because I weigh atmosphere pretty heavily, my ranking ends up looking like:

 

E2, E3, A2, A1, E1, A6, A5, A3, A4

[Marak]

I'm sort of torn; the linearity of A5 was definately a bit wearing... I know personally, by the time I got the Vahnatai lands I just wanted to hack off Dorikas' head already. But for the most part, it was exciting, fun, and challenging.

 

The evolution of monster encounters in A1-4 (go kill hundred of goblins that can't really hurt you in order to complete these 2 quests) to what you saw in A5 (fewer kills to level, more interesting fights, mechanics involved other than 'monster runs up to you and hits the last person who attacked it') was definately a big part of that sense of challenge.

 

Like Dikiyoba said, the amount of Health that enemies sported (particularly when get beyond the Anama Lands and/or on Hard or Torment) got a little out of hand. This is true in A6 as well, but not to the same extent: for most fights, health pools tend towards mildly obnoxious rather than eye-roll-inducingly high - at least on Hard mode (the only mode I've played A6 in thus far).

 

Battle Disciplines are also well-executed, as Slarty said. It was a brilliant way of making Melee (and Archers) more interesting and interactive without having to resort to the old standby of "I'll mix this up by giving them Mage or Priest spells!"

 

Lastly, tanking. Sure, my first character may not be dealing hundreds of damage per turn, but with 80% armor and a shield and parry and riposte and hardiness (and the right buffs or potions) he's nigh-untouchable. I don't think you could really pull a character like that off in the original trilogy. Yes, you could make a character that could take a hit, but not to that extent. Combined with battle disciplines it's not uncommon for my Tank to charge up to 2-4 foes, hit Adrenaline Rush, smack each one once, and keep them all occupied for rounds at a time while the rest of my party brings them down. Again, hard to do in prior games.

 

Anyway. I'm bored and rambling again. Don't mind me.

 

Off-topic: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES is quite possibly the best forum name ever. I giggle every time I read it in an exaggerated, comic-book-announcer-guy voice.

[Student of Trinity]

Maybe it's time for one more whack at the linear/nonlinear thing.

 

By 'nonlinear' I'm going to mean 'not restricted to a single track', so that the player can wander around freely over a wide area. To a physicist, unfortunately, 'nonlinear' tends to mean that things affect other things; which is also a relevant issue in games. Do the player's actions really change the world in ways that affect the player later? But I'll call this 'responsive' rather than 'nonlinear'.

 

In practice, nonlinear tends to mean nonresponsive, because nobody has time to design an entire universe with lots of mutually relevant alternatives. Responsive is good, because you're achieving something; to have a whole town open up because of something you've done is a bigger reward than just seeing your stats creep up. People who really get into a game like to compare character build strategies; imagine a game where there are quite a few major plot branchings, with trainers or shops becoming available or unavailable, areas becoming accessible or inaccessible, and the like. Now you'd have a lot to think about in plot strategy, and there would be several different schools of thought about what choices to make. This could be just as absorbing as character building, but it would be about doing things in the game, not just about manipulating the character sheet.

 

So I'd like to see more responsiveness, with my actions having significant ramifications not just for the ending texts, but for my own subsequent experience within the game. Faction games like Geneforge do this a bit in the sense that you'll have quite a different game if you join a different faction; but that's a one-time choice. I'd like to see this get more complicated, with more choices to make, and enduring consequences. If I'm getting this responsiveness I'm willing to accept a fair amount of linearity, just to streamline the game enough to get it written within the available time.

 

Of course responsiveness is harder to do, even with more linearity; in effect it means designing and balancing many games instead of just one. But I think there are ways to make it a bit easier. Many of the enduring choices can be mere chrome — NPCs that give different dialog, and the like — that need more writing, but not more balancing. And some of the player alternatives that have to be fairly well balanced anyway, like class choice or priest versus mage spells, could simply be tied to the plot instead of sitting in a menu before the game starts.

 

Nonlinearity is fun, too, of course. It's nice to be able to just tour around the world seeing things, without worrying about what you should be doing. But it seems to me there's no real reason you can't have both. With a bit of cunning it should be possible to make a game that was equal parts linear and nonlinear. There could be a lot of wide open material that might convey useful information to the player, but would actually be effectively sandboxed away from doing anything that would significantly affect the world or any plot feature. Threaded through this could be a few tightly linked stories, preferably with a fair amount of responsive branching.

 

Kind of like Escape Velocity, I guess. I think Jeff's next game should be a kind of half-way point between a fantasy RPG and Escape Velocity.

[Marak]

Personally I think I would have enjoyed A5 more if either A) the little "blocks" you got thrust into for each chapter had been significantly larger, or if there had been multiple tunnels between them. Imagine starting out in the Drake Pillars and then, being able to choose from getting a Bracelet and going to Tranquility or somehow "unlocking" a secret tunnel (perhaps in the Dragon's Lair under the town?) that lead instead to, say, the Anama or Vahnatai lands?

 

Imagine roughly the same number of areas, but they're split into pairs of equally difficult areas. Now, by choosing one, the other would become mostly (or completely?) inaccessible for that play-through. There would be solid incentive for most players to go back and choose the tunnels they skipped the first time(s) around, while at the same time the cries of "omg completely linear!" would die off.

 

This is sort of what was done in A6: the main plot is pretty much a straight line but you have huge areas at a time to explore before you're forced to advance it (the Great Cave, the Eastern Gallery, the Mage Colony tunnels, the Honeycomb), and even then, you have to complete your choice of 2 missions in different parts of Avernum.

 

While this may not be truly non-linear (as far as CRPGs go), it creates a solid illusion of non-linearity, and offers you some variety for subsequent play-throughs. ("I think I'll try that Western Excavation quest this time...")

 

Responsiveness would also be great to see, but the complexity and sheer amount of extra writing and scripting involved would be a nightmare for a huge developer to do - how is Jeff going to do it? Development times would extend out to Blizzard-esque proportions as Jeff pens all 35 possible scenarios and the 57 seperate endings. I'd like to see it, but you'd have to have some serious staffing to get it done (think BioWare's Mass Effect team-type numbers).

[avvv]

Uhh am I the only one who's dreaming of new graphics?

 

I'd like to see the avernum world as pretty as it's described and shown in the cutscreen images. If avernum 1-3 are going to be remade, having the old cube-based enviroments would be a turn-off. Think of icewind dale: occasionally the enviroment looked like something out of painting.

 

I mean the story is great, the game is very balanced in many ways but those things only occur to the players after they have played for a while, or before.

[Alorael at Large]

The Infinity Engine used for Icewind Dale uses pre-rendered backgrounds. Someone had to draw each area; they are, in fact, out of a painting, or at least a substantially hand-designed and -drawn piece of digital art. That's a lot of art, and art is expensive. Spiderweb will only hit that kind of quality when computer-generated landscapes are that pretty, as people are pricey and Jeff can't hope to compete in the high graphics market.

 

—Alorael, who on the other hand thinks that pretty graphics aren't too far away. The tiles have been getting nicer and nicer, and while expecting stunning beauty is bound to lead to disappointment, the games could easily settle into a stylized, retro level of nice.

[MHaensel]

I've only played 4-6, but I agree Avernum 6 was the best-balanced of the series. My mage and priest finally got to wear decent armor, which meant I didn't have to constantly protect them from every rock they might stub their toe on. The battle disciplines were interesting, but I'd personally rather just have my fighter characters hack and slash their way forward.

 

Avernum 5 had the player making a lot of exclusive choices - side with this city or that one, this faction or that. I prefer the A4 and A6 style of "This is your adventure. Go play it!" rather than "Choose which of two morally-gray sides you'll align yourself with, and live with it. You can't make everyone happy."

 

I _loved_ how a few choices in A6 affected the ending. I wouldn't try to expand it past what was done, but I like how the player had a voice in how our favorite land fared!

[Acky]

It's kind of early to have one of these poles since A6 is still fresh on everyone's mind. My answers were A5 and teh A1-3 engine (well, the BoA engine, but there aren't that many differences anyway.)

[Telanos]

Based on somewhat fading memories, I really loved the Exile series - Exile 2 in particular.

 

I can see that the game has advanced in many ways since then, but the atmosphere evoked by the game doesn't quite match that of earlier versions.

 

A1-3 were remakes of E1-3 but with less features and better interface, and A4-6 I think went further along this path (reduced features, but better interface).

 

I am being rather broad in my use of the term 'features' and 'interface', but that is I think a decent generalisation, where features refers to things like the range of spells available, and interface refers to not just the UI which has improved dramatically, but such things as having an inventory without weight restrictions (no more treasure piles at dungeon entrances!).

 

Its been an interested progression of trade-offs, with what I've felt as a progressive decline in the quality of the overarching storyline and the atmosphere they evoked. But on the flip side, the advances in the interface, and associated removal of behaviour that adds nothing to the game but tedium (eg: aforementioned dungeon entrance treasure piles) makes for a huge improvement. Having gotten used to the luxuries of the newer interface, I couldn't go back to playing E1 before getting too annoyed with it (I actually went back and tried!).

 

Storyline wise, E/A1-3 were memorable. A4 was meh. I remembered it only because I've just played A6 and the time of shades was mentioned. A5 was totally forgettable. So forgettable infact, that I had to go the A5 game page and read its description to remember what happened in it.

 

Spell changes have been rather dramatic in particular (at least by my style of playing). We've gone from being able to create barriers and cast quickfire, to white elephant arcane blow spells (although admittedly it was more useful in A6). Some people have made the comment that the game has become more balanced, and it probably has.

 

Spellcasters seem much less powerful in A6 relative to previous games, but some spells gain more relevance. For example, I think A6 may have been the only game where summoning spells (other than simulclarum) were actually worth anything. The 2 summon limit is probably necessary for balance.... but at the same time, I probably could care less if I were given the chance to flood a dungeon with a torrent of simulclarum Ur-Basilisks from exile 2, and walk through a garden of monster statues

 

Side note 1: It would be awesome if you monsters could be petrified and result in an actual statue! Hopefully a statue that you could break/move to prevent them blocking doorways etc.

 

Yes, it would be totally unbalanced, but then again... I wouldn't be the guy that let quickfire loose in dungeons (and some outdoor encounters!) and hid behind fire barriers for the hell of it if I were concerned about balance, and oddly enough its those ridiculous things that I did that I remember many years later.

 

Side note 2: Perhaps it could be an interesting idea to have an 'unbalanced/fun' game option in addition to the easy/normal/hard, where we can actually summon unlimited monsters etc as per earlier games.

 

Having an 'outdoors' as mentioned many times already had a huge impact on the feel of the game. It meant that we weren't taking 3 steps out of one town and suddenly tripping over the next one (not even a stones throw away!).

 

The introduction of new things like battle disciplines was something I never really got into. To be honest, I never even touched them while playing.

 

On a smaller scale, things have gotten more... well thought out. Each area has something interesting - that is to say, just about every area has something in it. I think its something that works well for A6, because if every area was packed in with stuff in E1-3 it would probably have felt like a grind fest (which I detest... probably the reason why I had no qualms using quickfire in a past dungeon... and trying to wait things out). In this respect, A6 does really well. The only areas which felt drawn out, were those areas which we weren't supposed to go into anyway (formello infinite spawn areas). The rest of the areas were pretty succinct. Go in, do stuff, and exit. No frustrating slog of monsters or pylons, no conveyor belt of golems and no laser puzzles with hordes of monsters getting in the way of already frustrating puzzle solving!

(Moral of the story: You can have monsters, and you can have puzzles, but please don't mix the two - or at least not excessively! The only other really frustrating area in the games that came to mind would have been the gremlin dungeon in one of the earlier games where the walls shifted around and scry map wouldn't work.)

 

Anyhow, thats about it for my thoughts.

[MissSea]

I have to say I adored the nods Jeff put in to all the previous games. I know others griped about the nostalgia, but it made me feel ... well, like I was back home. It's like revisiting your home town years after you've moved away, and found many things that haven't changed. Plus, I got to exploit the heck out of the information I remembered from A4. Hidden passages, backdoor routes all made for fun gameplay!

 

MissSea

[Mukwa]

Well, I am still a Noob for the series .. as I have A6, A5, A4 and G5, G4, and G3 on my puter ..

 

so I can only speak of the second trilogy of Avernum -- and maybe a few blurbs from Geneforge.

 

The Graphics of A6/G5 and Interface are great -- I aint worried about features -- The "overall plot" is linear -- but with so many side-quests, there is a lot of non-linear feel to the all 6 games I've played.

 

Out of the A4, A5, A6 group -- what I see in A5, A6 is great -- especially the battle disciplines!

 

As far as annoyances that other people have brought up -- the A4 with having most goblins killed and FINALLY making 2nd level ..lol, I can see that ..lol, but just like normal RPG's, it takes a while to get any level -- so for most of the games, the first couple of levels (part of the Training levels) -- just so the characters can gets set-up, in A4, it takes a while, and so it has a more realistic flavor from my days as an old pen & paper RPG'er.

[GodRob]

Exile (1) was the only game to make me stay up three days straight and skip work until I had finished! While Exile 2 and 3 had some great and new stuff, the first was ALL new and I enjoyed every minute of it.

 

I love all of the Avernum games, but the original Exile shall always be my favorite.

 

Robert

[The Dirty Nephil]

I had to go with Exile 1 for the favorite. I mean, it's the game that hooked me into the whole series. Granted, going back now and replaying, it has clunky gameplay, not as visually stunning, etc. But it's the nostalgia factor that gets me, I think. And the story. Avernum 3, however, was a veeeery close second place, simply because after playing the first 2 games, I think I took as much joy in seeing the surface world again as my game characters did.

[Velzan]

Hail Avernum and Exile!