PETA

[Spddin Ignis]

As you may or may not know, PETA(Peoples for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is an organization devoted to well...animals. What you probably do not know is the fact that I hate them with a passion. This hate was sparked a year or 2 ago with the Micheal Vick case when PETA wanted to Ban him from everything and destroy his life. This is not what bothered me though. I didn't care until I saw them protesting and whatnot with signs along the lines of "You can kill our kids, you can kill us, but killing dogs is unacceptable."

I took this quite lightly at first until I realized that this is pretty much how PETA works. The most recent event that has alerted me to their antics is the Haiti earth quake. Read This article. Now, in how many times do they mention anything about the people?

 

Why the hell are they pushing so hard to get money to donate to the dogs and cats when to be quite honest, that money should be going to the people. Express your opinions on the subject please.

[Lilith]

a charitable organisation, funded solely by the voluntary donations of its members, that exists specifically to work for what it sees as the best interests of animals, is working for what it sees as the best interests of animals

 

and you find something surprising about this

[Nioca]

Wait, THAT'S what bumps you about PETA? Not the hypocritical treatment of animals and terrorist connections?

 

Anyway, animal rescue groups, as you might expect, would be focused on animals. And frankly, there's probably a lot of animals in Haiti that need help right now, so there's nothing wrong with that. After all, humans aren't the only victims there.

[Lilith]

i mean seriously

 

suppose you donated to a charity whose mission is specifically to fund cancer research

 

if that charity suddenly went and gave all of that money, which donors intended to be used to fund cancer research, to relief efforts in haiti, i'm sure the haitians would appreciate it but don't you think the donors would be a little sore about it

 

well this is the same thing

 

just because you don't think their stated goals are worthwhile doesn't mean they should use the money they were given specifically to work toward those goals on something else

[Spddin Ignis]

I wasn't saying that they should give the money they have up, I'm just saying that they might be a little...crazy about what they do. Theses are the people that go home at night with no friends and no relationships and all they have are there pets... honestly, they got mad at le predident for swatting a fly...really?

[Lilith]

congratulations, by making a thread about them you have given them the publicity they want

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis

Theses are the people that go home at night with no friends and no relationships and all they have are there pets...

Citations please? I mean, I have friends and relationships, and also a visible lack of pets, and I support the work PETA do.

[Nelis]

Hmmmm. I have some problems with PETA and like organizations as well, in that I believe they're going a little overboard. Animals in the care of people should not be mistreated, but in my experience, they're asking for a little more. Now, this is not just about PETA, but I'll cite two things about the entire animal protection movement that ticked me off recently.

 

1. I took my dog to the vet, because I needed a declaration of health to take him abroad. There were about ten people with dogs in the waiting room, and he's a fighter, so I left him outside. He's used to this. He spends winter outside. He wants to be outside. He whines inside, can't take the heat and boredom. Of course, I got the declaration. Healthiest dog the vet saw in some time he said. Not overweight However, while waiting, this woman comes in with her tiny, fat, inbred/overbred Paris Hilton like abomination and starts asking who left his poor dog outside in the cold. He was all barking at her. I told her he's fine and probably wasn't barking at her but at her ridiculous dog that stared at him or otherwise failed to live up to doggy etiquette. Point is, people in the west/developed world are soft and spoiled, and now apply these norms about comfort to animals as well. However, they are complete hypocrites, as my next example will show.

 

2. China is now planning to forbid the eating of dogs and cats. Of course, it is still okay to eat pigs, cows, chickens, snails, fish and what have you not. They're not terribly concerned about the use of endangered (as in opposed to cats and dogs) species in traditional medicine either. Instead, they're just reacting to demands based on western norms, that make this sneaky distinction between different kinds of animals. There's wild ones, and pets, and then there's production animals. And somehow, they're different. But, of course, the distinction is completely contingent and historical. Dogs used to be work/hunt/guard animals. Now that most people keep them for company they're not anymore. I got fined for having my dog pull a cart of firewood. I asked 'what if he was a horse?'. No problem then. Makes sense, right? He actually wants to pull the cart. He starts making trouble if I don't allow him to. Now, the way the Chinese government rationalizes their decision is by pointing out that cats and dogs are traditionally butchered in a cruel way. Which is true. So, why don't they just forbid that particular practice of butchering?

 

That's just my two cents on the topic. And btw, I must add that I'm more then a little shocked when I hear of people spending hundreds of euros/dollars on psychology or surgery for their pets. I mean, having a broken leg set right is one thing. You could probably do this yourself. But having a five hour operation to have a tumor removed? While actual people in this world are dying of stupid things like malaria and intestinal parasites? That seems completely selfish to me. When a pet is very sick and in pain, you put him down. The respectful thing is to do this yourself, you can usually ask the vet to give the lethal injection yourself. Preferably in a trusted environment and outside.

[keira]

People are stupid. Get over it.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I'm all for protecting animals. After all, we're animals too. However, PETA can (or so I've heard) go too far. Treating animals as superior to humans is ridiculous. We're both animals. Now, putting animals down is hard, and I have trouble seeing it as much better than putting down a human, but I suppose it's better than letting them die slowly and painfully if there is nothing that can be done to help.

 

That said, I also support PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals). I like my bacon.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

Some well meaning young man lit himself on fire earlier this week in front of a fur store in Portland Oregon because he was mad that people wore fur. Fortunately, he was too stupid (I mean, he was already a little stupid to have thought up this stunt) to check if the door was locked first, otherwise he would have run into the store to burn up the furs.

 

Some people have too much wealth, and too little regard for the free will of others. I'm against cruelty to any animal, as defined by me. Even Nikki, an avowed vegetarian, is on board with my omnivorous status.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

Originally Posted By: Master1

I'm all for protecting animals. After all, we're animals too. However, PETA can (or so I've heard) go too far. Treating animals as superior to humans is ridiculous. We're both animals. Now, putting animals down is hard, and I have trouble seeing it as much better than putting down a human, but I suppose it's better than letting them die slowly and painfully if there is nothing that can be done to help.

That said, I also support PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals). I like my bacon.

PETA doesn't run shelters, to the best of my knowledge.

The only shelter run by the US Humane Society is one for horses.

If you want to do something positive for neglected or unwanted pets, donate DIRECTLY to your local animal shelter or the state humane society.

PETA and the USHS are by and large only fund raising political action committees, existing solely so that their contributors can feel better about themselves, acting through propaganda and occasionally by channeling funds into subsidiary organizations that take action, such as Sea Shepherds.

[Acky]

I support the general ideals PETA was founded on, if to a lesser extent, but I don't agree with how they are going about to achieve it (McDonalds terror meals, for instance).

 

Originally Posted By: Shatter

Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis

Theses are the people that go home at night with no friends and no relationships and all they have are there pets...

 

Citations please? I mean, I have friends and relationships, and also a visible lack of pets, and I support the work PETA do.

 

[Enraged Slith]

PETA is a disgusting machine that takes the spotlight away from important organizations. Donate to them and feel better about eating your KFC fried atrocity.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Poached Salmon

If you want to do something positive for neglected or unwanted pets, donate DIRECTLY to your local animal shelter or the state humane society.

This. I know from experience that they're thankful for even a small donation. Donating your time will be even more welcome, and it need only be an hour a week.

I also agree (I think somebody said it, but I can't be bothered to go and re-read everything to quote it) that the interests of animals shouldn't necessarily be put before humans. However when this:

Click to reveal..

http://api.ning.com/files/rELBMbDhIgPcUN...ted_puppy_2.jpg

is allowed to go on, clearly something needs to be done.

I guess the UK is lucky - as well as various local shelters and homes for animals, we also have the RSPCA ( Wiki link ). They're allowed to remove animals from places or situations they believe are unsafe, or where the animal is being neglected. When this happens they can press criminal charges against the owners. The charity also houses neglected animals, and all that other stuff too.

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

Why the hell are they pushing so hard to get money to donate to the dogs and cats when to be quite honest, that money should be going to the people.

It seems curious to me that this would be the expenditure you worry about.

Now, PETA isn't my idea of a good organization, but each of us feels drawn to different causes. Saving animals from pain or neglect is a worthy cause, and some folks might care more about this than other causes. Why shouldn't folks spend their time and money where they feel called to do so, according to their own heart?

Every single one of us on these forums has chosen to spend a good chunk of money purchasing computer games. Where are our priorities? How do we get off spending money on frivolous things, while people in Haiti are dying?

The point is that we don't get to criticize other people's efforts to do a good thing, when our own priorities don't stand up well to the same sort of ethical analysis we're attempting to impose on others.

Why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

[Lord Safey]

When it comes to animal rights activism, I find that their many organizations that are worth my time and money. PETA is not.

[Ephesos]

Originally Posted By: Shatter

I guess the UK is lucky - as well as various local shelters and homes for animals, we also have the RSPCA ( Wiki link ). They're allowed to remove animals from places or situations they believe are unsafe, or where the animal is being neglected. When this happens they can press criminal charges against the owners. The charity also houses neglected animals, and all that other stuff too.

...wow. I'm amazed that I'm the first to post this. I mean really, does anyone pay attention to this stuff?

I find the original post highly silly.

[Sudanna]

Eh, Nalyd freely admits that he doesn't much care about animals. Unnecessary cruelty isn't something he much enjoys, but whatever. Cruelty to fulfill a goal, like making delicious, delicious meat, is a-okay.

 

He's pro-human.

[Alorael at Large]

I'll agree with the points raised. Animal cruelty is bad, and it is bad regardless of how bad things are in Haiti. We can't focus all of our attentions only on crisis, and I can't blame PETA for continuing to do what they do.

 

On the other hand, PETA's mission goes beyond what I see as the promotion of humane treatment and the protection of animals. But you know what? I can accept that people disagree. (They're wrong, but they're entitled to their wrongness.)

 

—Alorael, who is perfectly willing to argue against PETA. He just doesn't see the reason to rail against them. If you want a truly hateful organization, there are plenty.

[Callie]

< agrees with Nalyd.

[waterplant]

Reading an anecdote about the PETA interference in a medical research project in Washington DC in 1981 (The Brain That Changes Itself, Norman Doidge) gets me to thinking that hardline organizations such as PETA often hijack issues and radicalize what should otherwise be normal and universal opinions. It would be safe to assume that a solid majority of people would be on the same side of the ledger as PETA on protecting animals from cruelty - without being so absolutist about it. Appealing to people rationally and decently might further their aims somewhat...

[Hypnotic]

I agree with Alorael's first statement. I do not like Animal cruelty. However I still like my meat, and I don't classify that as cruelty since most companys try to be kind while killing. At least in NZ they are.

 

I do not eat fish. buts thats more becauses of the tatse, rather than me being kind to them.

 

Really, I think its better to help your local comunity get better as a priority, so that one day the comuntiy as a whole (Assuming it gets fixed) can help elsewhere. This is on all problems not just Animals.

[Dintiradan]

Originally Posted By: bonner

Reading an anecdote about the PETA interference in a medical research project in Washington DC in 1981 (The Brain That Changes Itself, Norman Doidge) gets me to thinking that hardline organizations such as PETA often hijack issues and radicalize what should otherwise be normal and universal opinions. It would be safe to assume that a solid majority of people would be on the same side of the ledger as PETA on protecting animals from cruelty - without being so absolutist about it. Appealing to people rationally and decently might further their aims somewhat...

Reminds me of one time I listened to Richard Stallman deliver a talk. The talk was for law students, and he did spend a lot of time talking about software licences. But he also speculated at length about the effects of a post-scarcity society with matter duplication would be, and he ranted at the end about Canada's response to a murder on a Greyhound. I left the talk thinking, "Wow, that talk would have been more compelling if he could just stay on topic."

After a while, I thought about it some more. Is rms no longer allowed to express his points of view that don't directly deal with the Free Software Foundation? It must really suck being a leader of an organization, and having to restrain yourself from speaking your mind, lest you tarnish your organization because you're a 'hack'.

Most members of PETA sincerely believe in their position. Yes, a lot of us disagree with parts of that position. But I don't think that means PETA should change to fit our needs. What we need is an extra organization -- PETA-lite or some such.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

Yeah, like we need a religion for all us non-church-going areligious types.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Poached Salmon

Yeah, like we need a religion for all us non-church-going areligious types.

You already have one, it's the Church of the All Mighty Buck.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

I'm sorry, but I don't attend services there.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

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[inni]

Originally Posted By: Poached Salmon

Yeah, like we need a religion for all us non-church-going areligious types.

the church of Jon Lennon / communist Russia

[inni]

edit:nevermind this post

[Ephesos]

Originally Posted By: I need no introduction

(and in a reply to the point of the thread):

If your opinion can only be summarized by a Youtube video, unless that video is footage of you yourself explaining your point of view in clear and concise terms, I will not watch the video. Just saying.

[Rowen]

Originally Posted By: I need no introduction

(and in a reply to the point of the thread):

So PITA is the Dues Ex Machina that saves the rabbits? That putting them in very high regards.

[Enraged Slith]

Originally Posted By: Hypnotic

I agree with Alorael's first statement. I do not like Animal cruelty. However I still like my meat, and I don't classify that as cruelty since most companys try to be kind while killing. At least in NZ they are.

I don't like animal cruelty either, but I'll support it with my money anyway because it's inconvenient for me to do otherwise.

There's actually a lot of interesting ways you can kill a chicken, many of which you can find by searching through these videos. If you can watch a featherless, beak-less, wretch of a bird struggle helplessly for its life as someone squeezes its brains through its eye-sockets, and still feel comfortable eating it, then go ahead, but please don't pretend like it isn't common practice.

[waterplant]

Having just checked out peta.org I see the list of achievements that PETA credits to itself. Acting to stop GM from using animals in crash tests deserves an enormous pat on the back as does their other claims of success.

Originally Posted By: Dintiradan

Most members of PETA sincerely believe in their position. Yes, a lot of us disagree with parts of that position. But I don't think that means PETA should change to fit our needs. What we need is an extra organization -- PETA-lite or some such.

Well said! Groups that aggressively go after injustices play a role and, in PETA's case at least, get results. I guess I'm in the PETA-lite group that seeks maybe a gradual evolution in the way people perceive ALL life to recognize it's intrinsic value and treat it with respect. Respect is the key here.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

PETA kills people, you know. They're the legitimate face of the Animal Liberation Front, a terrorist group that assassinates people and stuff like that.

 

Donate to your local animal shelter or regional SPCA instead.

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

If you can watch a featherless, beak-less, wretch of a bird struggle helplessly for its life as someone squeezes its brains through its eye-sockets, and still feel comfortable eating it, then go ahead, but please don't pretend like it isn't common practice.

There *is* a middle ground between animal cruelty and veganism. Most supermarkets sell organic, humanely raised chicken, beef, pork, turkey, and lamb: look for the certified humane seal.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Or go to Europe. I remember hearing something on NPR about their much better regulation and treatment of livestock.

[waterplant]

Apparently Muslim rules concerning the slaughter of Halal meat include that the animal is not to suffer (more than necessary I guess). This includes that the animal has to die quickly and it's fellows are not to hear it die.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

PETA kills people, you know. They're the legitimate face of the Animal Liberation Front, a terrorist group that assassinates people and stuff like that.

What? The ALF has caused property damage and some members have made threats, but it's never actually killed anyone. And while PETA has provided financial support to some ALF-associated individuals in the past, it's not really true to say that they're the same group. If you're going to criticise them, at least get your facts straight.

[Alorael at Large]

Halal slaughter and kosher slaughter are rather similar, and they have been vociferously decried as inhumane by several animal rights groups. Both sets of religious law also are less specific about how the animal is allowed to live; while the spirit of the law seems to be against misery, the letter does not anticipate factory farming.

 

—Alorael, who supports animal slaughter by single lethal injection. C'mon, you weren't planning to eat that, were you?

[waterplant]

Yep. I heard a radio interview with a guy who may or may not have written a book about animal treatment as related in religious texts - the topic of the interview was this anyway. The interviewer was Jewish and both he and his guest were able to site religious texts regarding the keeping and slaughtering of domesticated animals. I should still have it on my computer so I'll see if I can locate it. (I've only got about infinity of these podcasts so it may take a while). From memory it was surprisingly positive.

 

From what I could gather from a re-listen to this podcast the major issue animal rights people have in Kosher and Halal practices is that the animal is conscious when killed as opposed to the modern western practice of stunning.

[inni]

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

PETA kills people, you know. They're the legitimate face of the Animal Liberation Front, a terrorist group that assassinates people and stuff like that.

Donate to your local animal shelter or regional SPCA instead.

and you say that like its a bad thing.

[Alorael at Large]

They're conscious and their spinal columns aren't severed, so they die of hemorrhage. They die relatively slowly. That's the argument, anyway; the counterargument is that they go into nearly instantaneous shock and don't feel themselves bleeding to death.

 

—Alorael, who is sure any argument about religious practices will have some rather angry participants. That's religion.

[waterplant]

—Alorael, who is sure any argument about religious practices will have some rather angry participants. That's religion.

 

Quite right good Alorael! Time this areligious omnivore stopped opining that which he does not know. (from PETA to Halal in several wordy staggers).

[The Mystic]

I once had a coworker who was a strict vegan (Vegan?) who was more than happy to tell everyone that it's immoral, sinful, etc., to eat anything that once had a face. Then she made the mistake of telling me this when we were on a lunch break. I was more than happy to point out the irony that she was working at a hamburger place, which by her definition was an evil business. But what really got her riled was when I told her that it was an act of mercy that someone had killed the cow that made up my burger before I cooked and ate it, and that she was eating her salad alive.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

who was a strict vegan (Vegan?)

No caps.

Dikiyoba.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

who was a strict vegan (Vegan?)

No caps.

Thanks, but I meant the "Vegan" in parentheses as someone from a planet orbiting Vega.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

vegans are a bunch of space cadets

[Alorael at Large]

What's worse is that you really kill animals and eat them. There are plenty of plants that are consumed piecemeal, slowly, over years. Sugar maples are bled repeatedly for our delectation.

 

—Alorael, who hears the screams of the vegetables. He's forced to eat animals because he thinks they deserve death more than innocent rutabagas.

[Dintiradan]

Originally Posted By: Alorael

—Alorael, who hears the screams of the vegetables.

"All that we're saying is give peas a chance."