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On Actual Politics


The Ratt

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I was greatly fooled by the title of the other title of the On Politics thread, since it was made the day after President Obama's State of the Union, but not about the speech.

 

What do you guys think about the speech? Do you think that what he said was right? Are there any specific issues that you vehemently oppose? Do you have any other comments? Post Here.

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Heh. It was intentional, of course.

 

(fixes thread title just so we don't have another pair of indistinguishable topics)

 

The speech was about what I expected, and I particularly enjoyed his repeated digs at, well, pretty much all of Congress for failing to accomplish anything at all. And unless said congresspeople actually start concerning themselves with how to run the nation instead of simply seeking re-election, I don't see anything truly groundbreaking happening in the near future.

 

Of course, with that lovely Supreme Court ruling about corporate campaign contributions, who knows. Maybe in 2012 we'll see a Monsanto party president who will finally set things right... with the power of Roundup!

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My verdict is still out on who I think Obama is going to be as a president. My intuition says he is sincere, but he has likely bitten off more than he can chew as one man. Because I believe he is essentially sincere in his concerns for the people and sufferings of Americans, and really does want to work to improve our lot, I think we'd do well to give him some time. America's a huge, bulging container vessel of a country, and it doesn't turn on a dime.

 

Even more importantly, he may be the president, but he can't effect significant change alone. He needs active and sizable backup, support, and activism by American citizens to have the clout to make it get anything through the houses. I think it's a team effort, and I miss the day when Americans really believed in and stood behind their president. We're so cynical and disillusioned now, but now more than ever, I think we need to be onboard together if we hope to pull ourselves out of the morass. That means bi-partisan togetherness, not merely along political lines. Have your fights during election season, but work together, as best you can during the term. Ego and personal agenda is so majestically out of control in D.C. It's hard to watch us devouring our own tail over party politics in the midst of national crisis. How bad will it get before Americans rise up in significant enough numbers in ways loud enough to scare our elected representatives into getting something done for the people again?

 

That's what I am convinced it will take, no less. And I think that means things have to get pretty uncomfortable first for the majority of Americans. Too bad, that last part.

 

-S-

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Originally Posted By: Obama
deficit of trust

Awesome! Since we can all trust the government, there's no need to pay attention to the news anymore, right? I mean, the government never does anything wrong, and it always acts in our interest. Better yet, we can cut out the middleman now and head straight into an Orwellian government. Hooray!
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Originally Posted By: Captain Ackrodude
It was a pretty good speech. I'm afraid I don't really have a good enough political opinion to feel comfortable sharing it though.

Since when has that stopped anybody? tongue

Honestly, I didn't watch it. It seems like all Obama's doing is making speeches that, while pretty, really don't accomplish anything.

Synergy: That's all well and good, but in order to rally like that, the American people will need proof that Obama isn't just another politician trying to exploit them. And frankly, some of his decisions *cough*healthcarereform*cough* have been pretty unpopular already. And even if they weren't, it still can be considered something of a vicious cycle: Americans won't back the president until he actually does something, which he can't do without Americans backing him up.
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Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Originally Posted By: Obama
deficit of trust

Awesome! Since we can all trust the government, there's no need to pay attention to the news anymore, right? I mean, the government never does anything wrong, and it always acts in our interest. Better yet, we can cut out the middleman now and head straight into an Orwellian government. Hooray!


you are the worst libertarian

except for all the others
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Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Originally Posted By: Obama
deficit of trust

Awesome! Since we can all trust the government, there's no need to pay attention to the news anymore, right? I mean, the government never does anything wrong, and it always acts in our interest. Better yet, we can cut out the middleman now and head straight into an Orwellian government. Hooray!


Dude, Fox would pay good money for that.
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Excalibur - Health care reform is a laudable goal.

 

Unfortunately, it had to be a job given to the Congress, a branch of government that is even more corrupt than corporate America, and is the least suited to providing a product which will be useful to anyone. I mean, Nebraska? Insurance lobbyists and the AMA both applauded the reform bill that was passed. That should be indication of one thing alone. Their lobbyists were able to shape the legislation in their image, not ours.

 

Originally Posted By: synergy
I miss the day when Americans really believed in and stood behind their president.

I missed it too. Did that actually EVER happen?

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Originally Posted By: Poached Salmon
Excalibur - Health care reform is a laudable goal.

I agree with this statement entirely, but that doesn't mean I agree with the manner in which the government is trying to bring about said reform.

Also, for some reason, I thought I was alone (on these boards) in thinking that Congress is corrupt. Good to know I was wrong.

Originally Posted By: Phanes

Dude, Fox would pay good money for that.

Fox is generally nothing more than partisan bickering. I don't want their money.
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Originally Posted By: Poached Salmon
Originally Posted By: synergy
I miss the day when Americans really believed in and stood behind their president.

I missed it too. Did that actually EVER happen?


I think some of them stood behind George Washington. But maybe because it's easier to backstab from the rear.

It might be because most of our presidents were more interested in getting elected than helping the country. Gerald Ford was the last president that wasn't elected when he replaced Nixon and he couldn't get elected on his own as president.
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Originally Posted By: Excalibur

Also, for some reason, I thought I was alone (on these boards) in thinking that Congress is corrupt. Good to know I was wrong.


this is what happens when your political ideology conceptualises all of politics as some kind of grand conflict between freedom and the state
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Health care reform is a laudable idea that got buried in politics, which have very little to do with anything laudable. Or ideas, really.

 

—Alorael, who thinks Obama is trying in good faith but in all the wrong ways to make America better. Agree or disagree with his policies, it's painful to watch him get absolutely nothing done because of unfaithfulness from his own party and lockstep, reflexive blockading from the opposition.

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I was at least pleased to see all of his glares at both parties of congress for their blockading (republicans) and floundering (democrats).

 

As far as the rest of the speech, I think Obama claimed to have ended the use of torture. While he did sign an executive order to that end, I'm not entirely sure whether it was as definitive as he made it seem.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/175/end-the-use-of-torture/

 

To Salmon's point about corruption, Obama has constantly called for an end to lobbyist and special interest influence in Washington. Whether anything's actually being done about it, going to be done about it, or how widespread it really is, I have absolutely no idea.

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I thought it was funny when he mentioned how some people still don't believe in global warming, then looked disappointedly at the Republican side of the aisle. Then he did the same thing to the Supreme Court, basically saying "thanks for making more work for me" again looking at them disappointedly. He's really getting good at that disappointed face.

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Originally Posted By: Lilith


you are the worst libertarian

except for all the others


Hey. Maybe you could read Otsuka, or Peter Valentyn, or Hillel Steiner on leftish libertarianism before you make such bold statements. Then again, I understand where you're coming from. Libertarianism as a theory has often been abused to justify anarcho-capitalist politics.
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I enjoyed Obama's speech though I can imagine that many found it too long (even Nancy was fidgeting towards the end). Policy rich and filled with many constructive programs - now that Obama has cleared much of the previous administration's in-tray he can get on with running his country. Good to see him slam lobbyists and promote some transparency in government. The end of a dark period in the world I feel.

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
Trop vrai, mon ami.

Politicians promise you the sun, moon, and stars; and the most they ever deliver is a drawing of the solar system as rendered by a dyslexic, colorblind four-year-old whose parents have a lifetime membership in the Flat Earth Society.
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