canisters

[Spddin Ignis]

What is your view on canisters?

[Dakkanor]

that depends on the context i.e the use and implementation in game or the philosophical and moral points of their use if they existed IRL

 

 

ingame it all depends on playstyle and preference

 

philosophically things are different

if its a tossup between learning a skill slowly while keeping rationality VS instantly learning a skill and then going mad

then there a canister is definitely bad

BUT if the canister was made to change a crippling bodily defect or save a life then that could be another story..

 

if they can be used to cure paralysis with one shot or regrow a limb to return a man to the life he loves or strengthen a persons weak heart so that a lovely girl could live her life then isn't that chance worth a little madness?

[Tarson]

From a story prospective they are horrible and shouldnt be used. The effects of them such as insanity and drakons. Playing a game it depends on your faction. And no its not dakkanor.

[Dantius]

One canister != madness. One hundred = insane.

 

Pick a number, any number between those two. Then arbitrarily impose that as the maximum number of canisters to be used. Quite simple, really.

[Spddin Ignis]

From a philisophical perspective, canister use is trading power for sanity. I unlike acky, would prefer sanity to power but thats just me. The only good thing about canisters is the attractive green glow they give you.

[Acky]

To some extent, you can control yourself if you use canisters. So I believe canisters are a valuble tool that can be used for great good, as long as they are properly distributed and restricted from the general public.

[Dakkanor]

and there are some who would argue the opposite tarson

 

but personally i believe that simply that fact of instant power causes no small part of the madness

 

finally i do actually agree that to have someone i love twisted and warped is not something i could choose

[Hypnotic]

No canisters. Things that Shape are arrogant enough. Outsiders do not need any more stress delt to them by their overlords. Shapers with canisters would be a nightmere.

 

That said I would like to say that I could use canisters without turning bad due to my personality but I doubt it. I have nothing against the changes in appearance, Glowing eyes would be awsome!

[Shaper Tristan]

canisters used in moderation are fine.

or as a more extreme measure, remember in GF5 when you talk to litalia she has not used canisters in awhile and she says that she is becomeing more like her old self.

 

so the options would be very few canisters, or alot and getting locked in one of those padded rooms for a couple of years.

 

i would choose the room and gain alot of power, i mean the symptoms would be like withdraw from heroin, but the power...

[Spddin Ignis]

Acky, but your being hypocritical to your previously stated views. According to you, no power should be hoarded, so what makes canisters any different.

[Artemis~]

I think that canisters are a good idea if you know how to use 'em. Every once in a while? Sure, why not. Enough to give your skin a "sexy green glow?" I think not. Canisters=power, and power=good. Good=ramen. So, in conclusion, canisters = ramen = good.

 

~Artemis and ramen. I eat it without the flavor packets, and it tastes pretty decent. But if canisters are anything like ramen, you'd better get used to seeing my aura exploding around you.

 

EDIT: IGNIS, YOU DOOF, USE PROPER PUNCTUATION.Nothing in this world irks me more.

[Potato]

Six canisters so you don't get any bad effects

[Dantius]

Only to get Eyebeasts, the walking, talking, Aura of Flame casters (endorsed by TM!).

 

Originally Posted By: TM

Gazers are walking Aura of Flames casters. Awesomeness.

[Mea Tulpa]

Huh, when did TM say that?

[Dantius]

http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=57694#Post57694

 

He said gazers, but since Gazers don't cast Aura of Flames, he probably got the two confused.

[Artemis~]

Erm,I wonder if one can make canisters to blend the traits of different creations.

 

~Artemis and crossbreeds. They work with dogs, but i'm not so sure about creations. I'm not sure if I want to see a beast with drakon legs and an artila head. Just saying.

[Acky]

Quote:

Acky, but your being hypocritical to your previously stated views. According to you, no power should be hoarded, so what makes canisters any different.

There's a difference between regulated and hoarded. Regulated as in only the right people can get access to them, like firearms. If they're hoarded, only the goverment has access to them (Shaping, for instance)

Also, why are you probing me into a debate?

[Spddin Ignis]

The shapers are regulating. They choose people who show enough control. The shapers aren't born the government, they are chosen based on ability. Anyone can get a gun.

[Artemis~]

Quote:

Also, why are you probing me into a debate?

Because he likes debates. Beleive me, I know.

~Artemis and debates. They tend to get me in trouble, so I've been careful to avoid them. But they're fun if you're arguing with the right people.

[Acky]

Quote:

The shapers are regulating. They choose people who show enough control. The shapers aren't born the government, they are chosen based on ability. Anyone can get a gun.

Actually, no, the Shapers aren't letting the general public have access to Shaping/Firearms. And no, not everyone can get access to a gun. The way it should be done is regulate it like our guns, as in take a backround check on people, don't let convicted criminals use them, etc.

[Spddin Ignis]

but you have to be a convicted criminal. You have to commit the crime before they no longer allow you to have a gun. Therefore by the time they make their move, its too late.

[Dantius]

You don't get to vote, either. And you can still have a gun, so long as no one knows about it, with canisters it would be pretty hard to hide an addiction.

[Artemis~]

Quote:

with canisters it would be pretty hard to hide an addiction.

.

Not necessarily. What if your parents were canister junkies and you inherited their canister traits? Then, I guess, your skin would NATURALLY have that sexy green glow.

~Artemis and green auras. I think that they're the best cosmetic ever. Count me in.

[Dantius]

We don't know whether or not canister use is genetic- most junkies get killed by the PC before they have children.

[Acky]

Interesting thought: If canisters were to alter your genes, when you reproduce, your genes would be passed down to your children. That kid would have the best show and tell ever.

[Hypnotic]

Techincally it could be passed down. Does that mean the children can naturally use whatever abilitys where shaped into their parents.

[Dakkanor]

of course if that glow never went away(never seen anything that states whether or not glow is permanant) then if you ONCE were a junkie and could hide your cans very well you might be able to continue to feed your addiction

[A less presumptuous name.]

In order for canister-altered genes to be passed on, the canister must alter all of you genes, including those in your gametogenic cells. While it's possible, I doubt that it's likely.

 

Also, how can you cast a firebolt by either changing your genes or studying? The two seem far from similar.

[Spddin Ignis]

your genetic code is the same for every cell in your body do yeah it would.

 

Show and tell:

 

Teacher: Ok Acky Jr. its your turn

 

Acky Jr: Look what i can do!!

*casts aura of flames*

 

Teacher; Holy Sh *is incinerated*

 

Acky jr.: oops

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis

your genetic code is the same for every cell in your body do yeah it would.

This is true when you're born, but it's not true afterwards. In real life, things that can modify your DNA won't modify every cell at once.

[Spddin Ignis]

good point...cancer would be an example. Just thought of that. But canisters seem to be all around im modyfying every cell in your body

[A less presumptuous name.]

There is no (to the extent of my knowledge) record of how and where the canisters modify your genes. It seems modifying your reproductive organs would be a waste of energy, seeing as how they aren't about to go casting aura of flames and the Shapers don't seem too concerned with kids.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

I love you all! You just gave me an interesting encounter in my next chapter! Thanx.

 

p.s. As I understand it, it would seem most likely that the your genetic codeing would be passed on to your children (somewhat randomly due to nigh infinate combinations of genes) as the genes in all your body are all the same but cells developments acording to the instructions of the genes are affected by the environment. From what I can tell cells with genes that are not within a certain degree of similarity have a large chance of being rejected by the body.

 

As far as skills comeing from genes and not knowlege I can only see small examples from this in animal instincts that even tiger cubs have without expirienceing a similar encounter.

[Artemis~]

Wow. Did I just do something right? I had no idea that I was capable of saying something smart.

 

anyhoo, I think that it would depend on if the canister genes were dominant or recessive. Which we would have no way of knowing.

 

~Artemis and genetics. That's why I love Geneforge. Plus, I totally Aced that test. I find genetics pretty interesting.

[A less presumptuous name.]

As do I, which is why I've spent hours pondering over possible scenarios for how and why canisters work.

[Artemis~]

I've got an idea:

 

There are little magical gene-altering probes the size of a strain of bacteria swimming around in the canisters. Any skin contact, and they inbed themselves into their host, like a parasite. And they alter your genes.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Or for some spectacular unknown reason... It's magic.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Yes. That is the conclusion I have come to as well. Part of fiction is suspending reality.

[Artemis~]

I couldn't have put it better myself. If it doesn't exist in real life, I think that it's safe to say that it's magic.

 

~Artemis and magic. I really wish that it were real. Then, this truly would be a perfect world. I can imagine eating some magical ramen noodles and turning into a sorceress.

[Hypnotic]

I too was pondering Dominate or ressesive. I am going to go ahead and say Dominant as the Phenotype expressed is always the one that the cansiters alter.

 

Unless is modifys both genes to Ressesive. Mabey its a Co-Dominate gene?

 

Would the children glow too? Or would it simply be a by product of canister using and not be passed on?

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis

your genetic code is the same for every cell in your body do yeah it would.

This is true when you're born, but it's not true afterwards.

It's not even always true when you're born. Chimerism, for example.

Originally Posted By: Drakon Sssharxx

p.s. As I understand it, it would seem most likely that the your genetic codeing would be passed on to your children (somewhat randomly due to nigh infinate combinations of genes) as the genes in all your body are all the same but cells developments acording to the instructions of the genes are affected by the environment. From what I can tell cells with genes that are not within a certain degree of similarity have a large chance of being rejected by the body.

It's a little more complicated, of course. Your genes are on chromosomes, and your chromosomes come in pairs (except for X and Y, which only sort of pair in males given the fact that X is much larger than Y). The pairs contain the same genes, so you have all your genes in pairs too (hence the interactions of dominance, recessiveness, and so on). Sexual reproduction requires the formation of a gamete, which carries one of the two genes your cells (or, more specifically, the gametocytes that form gametes) for every single gene. Which of the two possible genes is chosen at random (sort of; mostly), and then the gamete fuses with another gamete and makes a new organism with paired genes.

Cells don't have to be genetically similar to avoid rejection, really. They just need to be similar in the ways that are recognized by your immune system so that they are perceived as self and not foreign. That's why blood transfusion works and blood type matters. It's also why you need a matching organ donor for transplantation.

Quote:

As far as skills comeing from genes and not knowlege I can only see small examples from this in animal instincts that even tiger cubs have without expirienceing a similar encounter.

Maybe, but instincts are almost certainly neurological rather than genetic. The genes program the development of the neurons, but how that works in a mature brain is anyone's guess.

—Alorael, who really means that it's magic. Jeff did not decide to make a game that is a molecular genetics course. He made a game in which gene-altering glowing canisters give you the ability to shoot fire and then make you go crazy.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I guess that if we wanted to make canisters more realistic, we could say that actually alter the neurological pathways in your brain (and spinal cord), giving you some reflexive reaction which manipulates the energy/essence inside of you. Learning does similar things with neurological pathways, only much slower (and more complex).

[Hypnotic]

I would assume thats what the "Quick Action +1" Canisters do.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

If magic was real you'd still have scientists try and explain it.

[Mea Tulpa]

And it would be explainable too, presumably. I can think of very few fantasy worlds where magic explicitly does not follow any laws of magic, and cannot be explained. The fact that that world's laws of magic are not identical to our world's laws of physics is not really a big deal.

[Student of Trinity]

Too quote Douglas Adams, There is another theory which states that this has already happened. In other words, who says real physics isn't magic? It turns out to be mainly a discipline of enchantment as opposed to evocation, but our enchanted items can do some pretty amazing things.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

To quote Arthur C Clarke:

 

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[Artemis~]

Quote:

Too quote Douglas Adams, There is another theory which states that this has already happened. In other words, who says real physics isn't magic?

Woa, yeah! What if all magic were just advanced physics that we haven't figured out yet? Maybe magic is actually the result split atom that created a parallel universe, inside of this universe!

~Artemis and parallel universes. I could rant about the possibilities forever. My theories are really cool. If you want to know more about my crappy 6th-dimention-parallel-universe theories, feel free to let me know. I need to get some rant time in anyway.

[Dantius]

Go for it. Hijack the topic, we have enough canister debates and not enough rants.

[Potato]

Of course magic is advanced physics. Have you not read Harry Potter? What do you think Arithmancy is?