Is this game worth buying[G5]

[Vexivero]

I'd like some customer feedback. How is it compared to the previous Geneforges? What's changed? I haven't played the demo so I wouldn't know.

 

—Shaper-Master, who is considering buying the game but is wondering if it is worth the price. Perhaps some of the customers can point out the pros and cons to each choice.

[Sleeping Dragon]

It's really one of the best in the series. It's got a deep plot like Geneforge 3 and 4, but more ending choices like back in Geneforge 1 and 2. It's like all the best parts of the old games with less of the worst parts (no Geneforge 3 style boats). The world is a bit more static than it was in Geneforge 3 and 4, but it's engine is smoother and nicer, mostly because each new game tends to be better than the last in this respect for Spiderweb games in general, but still.

 

So yeah, if you liked anything about the other Geneforge games, get this one. If for nothing else, then at least to witness the exciting conclusion. Unless you're considering buying this game as your first Spiderweb purchase, in which case, that's fine too, but I personally prefer playing series' from the beginning. Your call, though, it is an amazing game either way.

[Mea Tulpa]

I largely agree. That said:

 

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

a deep plot like Geneforge 3

*facepalm*

[Sleeping Dragon]

Hey, when I said that, I was referring most to the characters. Deep characters. Ones that moved around and did stuff. Some tried to convince you to join them over and over, others slowly went crazy before your eyes. That game was the best for us players looking for things like that, was it not? It was really great.

 

By Geneforge 5, most of the characters have settled into their roles and picked their sides, it's more about you in that game.

[Shaper Tristan]

geneforge 5 is an amazeing game and it toatally worth the money spent, wait, make that the geneforge series.

 

 

- you probaly shouldint write your end like that as alorael might become angry.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Alorael (and the rest of the moderatorial team) might become angry anyway if this is the Shaper Master who was banned years ago for being a horrible troll and spammer and again for evading his ban, although of course we can't tell from this one post.

 

I've only played G1, but I'm willing to believe Sleeping Dragon's assessment of the strengths of G3, given that another Spidweb game that for a long time was more or less universally reviled by the community (ZKR) turned out to be one of my favorite scenarios.

[Dikiyoba]

I found G5 to be okay but thoroughly uninspiring. If I hadn't played three of the previous games and if it hadn't been the final game in the series, I wouldn't have bothered with it.

 

Dikiyoba thought that G1 and G4 were way better. G2 is pretty good too.

[Dantius]

G1 has the best plot, but the closure that G5 brings is great also. If you want a shiny engine, though, go for G5.

[Mea Tulpa]

What Dikiyoba said.

 

The closure that G5 brings is only great if you actually feel it was great closure.

[Dantius]

It was closure, though.

 

Click to reveal..

G2 ends, no matter what you do, with a sealed door with unknown contents. That's just begging for a sequel.

 

G3 ends with the war in full swin, and Ghaldring surveying thing from his fortress, so we want know what happens to him.

 

G4 ends with the release of the Unbound, and we just can't wait to see what devastation they wreak in a sequel.

 

 

G1 brings some closure, but only because a series was never intended in the first place, so things had to be wrapped up quickly.

[Golgoth]

G5 Is probably the best one of the series because there are not as many Annoying features in it.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I really like all of them. (Note, I haven't played 3.) We could sit here saying which one is best, but I think they are all worth buying and playing. You can get them all for 75$, that's 15 a piece. Or 25 or whatever the price is now for a single game. It's worth it in my opinion.

[Marak]

I've only played some of Geneforge 1 and about half of Geneforge 5 (After beating every Avernum game I started wondering about that other series Jeff's got going on) and so far it's been worth it. I jumped in head first and bought all 5 games on CD and I've been having a lot of fun so far... I mean, really, how do you beat an RPG where your "Party" is a pack of giant, face-stabbing scorpions backed by ice-breathing raptors, a giant humanoid Battle-alpha crushing things with its fists, and topped off with a floating, magic-tossing, tentacled thing?

 

Anyway, download the demo, it's huge and free, and see if you like it.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Wait... Geneforge 3 is the least popular Geneforge game? How did I not know this? And why is this so? It was the least static of all five games. The only down side really was the boats, which were a minor annoyance at best. Also it has only a couple endings, but the same goes for Geneforge 4, which people really liked. Huh.

 

Assuming you played the others, Shaper Master, it's basically like Geneforge 4, but with multiple endings. More static than Geneforge 3, if that's what your are looking for, but overall an excellent game and a fine conclusion to the series.

[Dantius]

Less static. A game more static than G3 would have only one faction.

[Dikiyoba]

Static means the world doesn't evolve in response to your actions very much. Saying a game is static or isn't (at least in the sense Sleeping Dragon is using it) has nothing to do with how many options the game has.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Dantius]

Engineer speak, sorry.

 

Static means unchanging

 

Dynamic means movement

 

I just associate more options with movement, as opposed to game flow.

[Golgoth]

I thought G3 was pretty static. At least more so than G1.

[Acky]

Most people didn't like G3 because of its sudden drop in freedom that had come with G1-2, in addition of the same old recyled plot of:

 

Apprentice finds Canister/hints of rebellious serviles and creations

Apprentice Locates Rebels

Apprentice must then choose to aid or destroy said rebels

 

...that was G1 and G2. The game also didn't sell too well.

[Golgoth]

Althought I did like the part of starting in the academy

[Shaper Tristan]

for once id have liked to you know.... actually be a student in the academy and not just " boom, everyones dead but you, ill guess ill just have to become uber-powerfull on my own.

[Hypnotic]

If there every is (Not saying therw ever will be) a geneforge 6. Than that might the answer. Heck, geneforge 6 might be you being a student, than taking over terrestia with the shaper Army pre geneforge 1.

[Mea Tulpa]

The major complaint about G3 was really that there was nothing new about it. It felt like a tired rehashing of the same old plot. Yes, Alwan and Greta turned out to be important people, but they weren't important at any point in G3 -- G3 is the one game which you could skip entirely without missing out on ANY of the overarching Geneforge saga story.

 

The game engine was almost identical to G2 as well. There were some tweaks and item enhancements/crafting was new, but those were not significant additions.

 

Some of the changes that were instituted were overwhelmingly unpopular too, in particular the boat system.

[Acky]

Yeah those graphics were horrible.

[Dikiyoba]

You see that word system after the word boat? That means your joke doesn't work.

 

At least, Dikiyoba assumed it was meant to be a joke.

[Acky]

It wasn't actually...

[Sleeping Dragon]

Originally Posted By: Do what thou wilt

The major complaint about G3 was really that there was nothing new about it. It felt like a tired rehashing of the same old plot. Yes, Alwan and Greta turned out to be important people, but they weren't important at any point in G3 -- G3 is the one game which you could skip entirely without missing out on ANY of the overarching Geneforge saga story.

Forgive me, Slarty, but I must disagree on these points. The plot was actually new at the time, while the plots for the previous two games the ones that were identical. 3 involved the beginning of an actual Rebellion in Shaper lands. 1 and 2 both involved lands that were cut off from the larger shaper forces and thus your effect on the plot was more meaningless. The third game showed Alwan and Greta evolving, making it necessary for you to appreciate their later characters. Think about it, if you had not seen them evolve in the previous game, they would have appeared as generic-cookie cutter identities for their respective factions, wouldn't they? And it is the first two games, in fact, that can be missed, as the events from them are all gone over in the later games, while in order to understand how the rebellion gained it's foothold in the first place, one must play 3, otherwise your just suddenly thrust into a war that is already halfway over.

Also yes, Diki got what I meant by static. But I did mean it as unchanging, Dantius. In the first two games, the characters all stay in place, doing nothing, waiting for you to pick one of them to join and kill the rest. The third one, however, was Jeff's first real success at dynamic characters. Litalia and Hodge moved around, they did stuff, they fought you, conversed with you, and above all they changed dramatically from beginning to end. It was a real treat to watch that story unfold as island after island fell. It really is something Jeff hasn't been able to replicate as well in other games.

The one thing I do agree with you on though is the boats. That and the lack of more than two factions are the only real flaws to Geneforge 3, though. It was a fine game.

[Mea Tulpa]

*scratches head* The story of the Geneforge saga, as told in the games, consists of the rediscovery of the Geneforge at Sucia Island, the elaboration of its principles in Drypeak Valley, of the sudden rebellion at the hands of the former Takers, the clash of Shaper and Rebel forces, and the war's final resolution. The problem is that the third item there is not what G3 describes. G3 does not tell you about the embers of rebellion -- that was G1, of course -- and while G3 is more or less concurrent with the beginning of the Rebellion capital R, it doesn't tell that story. The characters in G3 insist on this over and over, talking about how the real action is in Terrestia, the real leaders are in Terrestia, the important events are in Terrestia, and even the important things happening in the remote island chain where G3 takes place, like Akhari Blaze's geneforge, are in fact being done elsewhere simultaneously. G3 is at best a gaiden, a side-story, which tells you more about what shaped Alwan, Greta, Litalia, and Khyryk, but which has no direct relevance to the broad strokes of the storyline.

 

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

The plot was actually new at the time, while the plots for the previous two games the ones that were identical. 3 involved the beginning of an actual Rebellion in Shaper lands. 1 and 2 both involved lands that were cut off from the larger shaper forces and thus your effect on the plot was more meaningless.

The rebellion began with the first Taker years and years ago, and in each game, it is shown amplified: G1 first presents it as a sect of serviles that doesn't specifically want to destroy all Shapers; in G2, it is a fierce and ambitious sect that includes drayks, drakons, and even some humans; in G3, they have actually declared war, but are otherwise identical to the Takers.

 

I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that a tiny, remote island chain about which Jeff says the same things he said of Drypeak -- that it was a very inauspicious place for Shapers to be posted, etc. -- which is UNDER STRICT QUARANTINE is not "cut off form the larger shaper forces." Given that the outcome of G3 has no impact whatsoever on how the war goes, I fail to see how your effect on the plot can be more meaningless.

 

Quote:

in order to understand how the rebellion gained it's foothold in the first place, one must play 3, otherwise your just suddenly thrust into a war that is already halfway over.

Again, 3 doesn't explain how the rebellion got its foothold. Characters in 3 repeatedly tell you that the rebellion is already in full swing in Terrestia, that "Terrestia is in flames."

 

Quote:

Litalia and Hodge moved around, they did stuff, they fought you, conversed with you, and above all they changed dramatically from beginning to end. It was a real treat to watch that story unfold as island after island fell. It really is something Jeff hasn't been able to replicate as well in other games.

I agree that Litalia and Hoge were well done in 3. But there weren't dynamic in any way. There are 1 or 2 places where they have two possible dialogue spiels depending on what you chose, but that's about it. That's not dynamic. And they didn't change dramatically. Litalia changed dramatically between games, but not at all within 3. What is this dramatic change you're referring to?

[Sleeping Dragon]

I still must disagree on all points. In Geneforge 3, you were fighting against a Shaper Lord, complete with a General and an army. It was real war, quarantined island or not, while the previous two games were a secluded (and static) conflict. I felt like I was doing things throughout that game, with my accomplishment on each island bringing my side closer to victory (unlike the previous games, where you could accomplish almost nothing until towards the end, after you had met all the factions). Yes, the plot was more linear, but that allowed it to be more dynamic and that is what made Geneforge 3 unique and different at the time. It actually made it a bit like Avernum 2, which is a favorite. I also think that, for a game where characters are so important, the fact that it showed the development of so many major characters is not such a small thing as you make it out to be.

 

I also really disagree on the necessary for plot point. Geneforge 1 and 2 had entirely contained plots, while 3-5 are continuations of each other. Not much is accomplished in 4, and 5 is simply a conclusion of the war started in 3. Starting the game with 4 or 5 places you in the middle of a war that's been going on for years, so I maintain that 3 is the most necessary for appreciation of the story arc.

 

Finally, the dynamic change I was referring to. With Hodge, the change was obvious, as it was mostly physical, you couldn't miss it. He went from being a proud teacher at a shaping school, to a creepy, falling apart, broken man hiding in a mansion later in the game. As for Litalia, I really liked the fact that she met with you at multiple points in the game. If you kept refusing to ally with her, she became more and more disappointed with each meeting. You also became stronger each meeting, and so she had less and less power over you. Changes and development like this just aren't seen in any other Spiderweb game. I, for one, thought they were of note. I'm sorry you disagree.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Just a quick note, I've played all of the games except for 3. I didn't find the fourth game awkward to begin. I'd like to go back and play the third, just for completeness, but saying that it is crucial to understanding 4 and 5 is not accurate.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Sorry, I meant the "most" crucial. In actuality, none of Jeff's games are absolutely crucial to understanding the others. He has specifically made it a point that his games are this way: you need play none of the previous to enjoy the latter ones. I just thought if you have to play one, Geneforge 3 would be it. But please do feel free to play in any order you wish.

[Golgoth]

Originally Posted By: Shaper Tristan

for once id have liked to you know.... actually be a student in the academy and not just " boom, everyones dead but you, ill guess ill just have to become uber-powerfull on my own.

I agree, so we could like learn more about the shapers and how they teach and such, I think it would be a good background. I wonder if Jeff will make a prolouge that includes that.

[Shaper Tristan]

ive always thought that the story of the shapers rise to power would make an excellant prologue, you would have many diffrent cultures to ally with, possibly new magic and shaping, and actual war not just static choices.

[The Ratt]

I may be incorrectly remembering this, but didn't most people who played G3 without playing G1 or G2 find it fine?

[Acky]

Hence my previous statement about people who played the earlier games/engine/version very frequently dislike the newer version/game.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

I may be incorrectly remembering this, but didn't most people who played G3 without playing G1 or G2 find it fine?

Generally speaking, yes. Obviously, anyone who starts the series at G3 isn't going to be bored and annoyed by how similar it is to the earlier games.

Dikiyoba.

[Mea Tulpa]

Most of us who played G1 and G2 found it "fine" also. I don't know of many people who gave up playing in disgust. Most of us finished and enjoyed the game overall. We just didn't enjoy it _as much_ as the previous installments, and certainly aspects, such as the plot, we found significantly less enjoyable.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Interesting that you say that. For me, the first two had no plot, literally. They had static worlds where nothing happened until you started killing off factions one by one. They had plot like the game of Risk has plot. Geneforge 3 was the first in the series to actually have a plot, and I didn't think it was done half bad. This also made it significantly different from the first two, so I'm not sure what Dikiyoba is talking about either.

[ThricebornPhoenix]

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

For me, the first two had no plot, literally. They had static worlds where nothing happened until you started killing off factions one by one.

It sounds like you're saying that a flexible plot is not really a plot at all. I would say that a flexible plot is one of the very few things setting video games apart from other, more popular media, and really the only justifiable reason to play a game 'for the story'.

[Sleeping Dragon]

A good point, certainly. I never said the lack of plot was a bad thing, though. I, for one, like the plot in Risk.

[Mea Tulpa]

I really don't understand how you can say G1 and G2 had no plot -- just as many important events happen during the game as in G3, and the backstory is a whole lot more substantive too.

[Sleeping Dragon]

But nothing happens during the first two games. In Geneforge 3 you're chasing Litalia across the islands, turning the tide of the battle on Dhonal's Island, watching the development of your party members, you actually do things that effect the world, there is real plot progression as you move through the game. In Geneforge 1 and 2, you can go the entire game without accomplishing anything at all (no plot progression), only to finish everything with a quick series of final battles against opponents that never moved from the spots they started in at the beginning. As said before, you need not play them in order because they all have substantial background information, that's a given. But as far as which game really made me feel like I was a part of events that were really happening throughout the course of the game, 3 wins.

 

Also, hardly and important events happened during the first two that effected the greater plot. Sucia got wiped out, your character might as well have never been there. Drypeak got wiped out, so again, why bother? But 3 chronicled the first ever real war between human and creation, with land being taken and people being divided between the new sides. So on overall value to the main plot, I'd say 3 wins again.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

Also, hardly and important events happened during the first two that effected the greater plot. Sucia got wiped out, your character might as well have never been there. Drypeak got wiped out, so again, why bother? But 3 chronicled the first ever real war between human and creation, with land being taken and people being divided between the new sides. So on overall value to the main plot, I'd say 3 wins again.

Right. If you hadn't found the geneforge, nothing would have happened. If Trajkov and the other Shaper hadn't planned to use it, nothing would have happened. Barzal's (sp) shaping the first drakon is completely insignificant.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Come on now, you know that's not what I said. But you bring up a great point, actually. Zachary and Barzahl's effect on the plot was very important. What they did at Sucia resonated in the greater Geneforge history (not what your character did, though). Yes, the creation of the Drakons was a momentous event as well ( though it happened off-screen, and was not actually seen in any of the games). Background information is important, but I would argue that only background information happened in the first two games, very little happened during the course of play at all, unlike in Geneforge 3. I mean, you can say exactly where you were when the Rebellion first began, it's like when Kennedy was shot, or September 11th. That's real events and plot happening in-game, something that just wasn't in the first two games. Isn't that something?

[A less presumptuous name.]

I think that in the first two games, a ton goes on. You may not as much influence in it as you do in later games (although nothing you do matters in any game except for 5, see canonical endings), but they are very important. It is quite possible to pick up at 3 and be fine, but its nice to look at the events that happen in 3-5 and say: "I remember when this all started."

[Mea Tulpa]

Sleeping Dragon, I'm not sure how to keep arguing this with you. You seem dead set on your conclusion that G3 has a plot and G1-2 do not. However, your conclusion seems to be based on itself. You are twisting several pieces of information around to fit your conclusion -- in particular that the rebellion began on the Ashen Isles (it didn't) at the beginning of Geneforge 3 (it began earlier). This is unfortunate, as I don't recall seeing you make such an irrational argument in the past. Either way, I'm bowing out of the debate. Cheers.

[Lilith]

She does have a good point about Geneforge 1, though. If you die in G1, the world is plunged into war: the implication is that Trajkov and Goettsch will eventually break the stalemate on their own and the Geneforge technology will reach the mainland, and so your actions didn't really make much difference except maybe to delay war a bit and change the identity of the key players when it happens.

 

also all of this talk about backstory gives me an excuse to post another stephen bond article

[Acky]

I believe SD is saying the "official" day the war started was in G3. Kind of like saying the battles at Lexington and Concord were the "official" kick-starts of the Revolutionary war, so she is basing her argument off of that you didn't have to be around before then to see the Revolution(s). However, anyone who even glimpsed at history knows that this was preceded by many smaller events, which eventually built up to the crises it ended. Or began, depending on how you look at it. At least that's my interpretation. As for the argument itself, I can't really add on what Slarty's said, since it matches my opinion well enough.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Acky is right, I never meant to say the Rebellion started on the Ashen Isles, I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I am, however, saying that the Rebellion started in Geneforge 3, you are there when it first hits your location (as opposed to you hearing it started somewhere else first, or it starting long before the game began). One second there was no Rebellion, and by the end of the game it is in full swing, you are present to see events unfold or at least hear about them in real time. In Geneforge 1 and 2, you start the game in the middle of events, you hear about how it got the way it is, and no progress happens in the world until you kill off bosses at the very, very end.

 

Slarty and I simply appear to have very different priorities for what makes an interesting plot in a game. In fact, I wish he hadn't left the conversation so soon, as I don't feel I fully understood his reasonings yet.

[A less presumptuous name.]

The following is opinion:

 

Geneforge 1 and 2 both have plots. However, the plot followed by the PC doesn't directly tie in to the overarching plot of 3-5. However, the information (plot-wise and back-story-wise) in those two games can significantly increase you immersion in the next 3 games.