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About the Avernum series...


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Well I've played the demos, I'm talking about the full versions. I'm not too comfortable with 4 different characters, since it kind of takes away from the aspect of RP where you become the one character. I'm just wondering if later in the game, it becomes more fun i.e. more natural and if it also gives as much to lore/epicness as the full Geneforge games.

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If you liked the demos, you'll probably like the full games.

 

Avernum 1 is *very* open-ended. I liked playing it, but I lacked the patience to go through all of it to the end. I also had to consult a walkthrough after a while to get through the story after levelling up my to level 25-30ish by sidequests and wandering alone. Overall, it gives a good impression of how massive Avernum can be.

 

Avernum 2 takes the massiveness of Avernum 1, adds in a few zones for good measure, and sets it in a huge war setting. Probably the most epic Avernum game; I'd say it captures the massive-scale war feeling better than the last few Geneforge games did.

 

Avernum 3 is as epic as Avernum 2 and the Geneforge series, but more because of the massive scale of the surface world and the major quests with a huge major quest unifying all of them. Think of it as TES: Oblivion but with much worse graphics but a much, much better main storyline.

 

Avernum 4 and 5 are very hit or miss. Avernum 4 didn't quite capture my attention for very long. Avernum 5 felt like a chore to play at times, despite the interesting spin on the fact that you're now working for the Empire.

 

 

The Avernum series (A1 - A3) is less emphasis on *you* (the player) influencing large events all by yourself. It's more like the standard fantasy game, with your party undertaking huge missions from the respective good guy faction and saving the world in the process, while exploring the HUGE setting. The Geneforge series, in my opinion, is more objective-driven and character-driven in comparison.

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In terms of hours, I played through G4 and G5 in less time than it took me to play any Avernum. I can't give hour comparisons, but the Avernums are a bit longer. That balances out with more Geneforge replayability due to more endings.

 

The first three Avernums also feel much larger due to the outdoors. A4-A6 don't have that, and they don't even have Geneforge's map, so the world actually feels quite a bit smaller.

 

The world of Avernum doesn't have quite the same world/magic-building aspect, but it's still a very well-developed setting. More than anything, it shines in detail and in the minor characters and events. But in some ways I think Avernum is more epic than Geneforge. Geneforge is all about factions, conflicts, and lack of clear good and evil. Avernum is all about saving the country (or the world) from real and unavoidable threats.

 

—Alorael, who thinks the demos give an excellent sense of lore and epic quality. Only lengths aren't obvious, and suffice it to say that the lengths are sufficient.

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A1.

 

A2 feels more like exploring A4 to me, and more importantly the minor characters and background descriptions somehow became anemic. I blame Jeff having to rebuild Avernum too many times.

 

A5 doesn't actually contain Avernum proper. It has pieces of the Abyss and new areas. It's a good game, but it's not a good way to see the areas you see in A1, A2, and A4.

 

—Alorael, who believes the objections to A4 are mostly plot problems rather than engine problems. A4's plot is a rehash of A3's. Oh, and the lack of outdoors makes the world that felt huge in A1-2 seem much tinier, which is jarring.

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A1 is the game that presents Avernum. It shows it most thoroughly and without alteration. A2's Avernum is slightly different, with some areas closed off and many changed. There's still the same exploration, but things are a bit more event-specific. A4 gives you exploration of generic Avernum again, but somehow it just doesn't feel the same.

 

—Alorael, whose name isn't spelled quite the way you're spelling it. Watch out for those dipthongs.

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Honestly, since both Geneforge and Avernum handle dialogue in the exact same way, you don't gain or lose anything at all if you transition from one to the other. In Geneforge, the Shaper PC is "you". In Avernum, the Party is "you".

 

I just sort of assume that my Avernum Party has a reasonably charismatic spokesperson that does most of the speaking for the Party, and the NPCs are typically talking to him or her. Not really much different from Geneforge when you think about it... when you waltz into town with 7 Creations in tow and strike up a conversation, you assume that the NPC is talking to your Shaper PC and not one of his various minions.

 

And yes, there's different levels of "epic" in the various titles. Most people will point you to Avernum 2 as the game that really makes the series shine, and I would have to agree with that, although 3 and 5 have their merits as well.

 

Exploring Avernum... hrm... I can't speak much for A1 since I've only played the Demo, but if you compare the "world maps" (i.e. the mini-map squares all assembled into a big map) for A1 and A2, there's not a ton of differences, so once again I'd lean towards A2 because you get the same Avernum as A1 (more or less) plus the improved game engine and plotline(s).

 

A4's Avernum is, again, much the same as A1 and A2s, but the lack of indoor/outdoor swapping changes the scale completely, and the overall effect is that everything just FEELS smaller and more cramped, even though you're essentially exploring the same set of caves. The fact that A4 completely removes all water travel also makes the game world much, much smaller than A1/A2 - there's a lot of real estate in those 2 games that's only accessible by boat.

 

Avernum 3 is right out. You spend a good 95% of your time on the surface world continent of Valorim.

 

A5 starts off in NW Avernum near The Abyss, but then it almost immediately cuts you off from the rest of Avernum and takes you north, into an uncharted Frontier that didn't exist/wasn't explorable in prior games, so while it's a fun game, you're not exploring the same Avernum as 1/2/4.

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Originally Posted By: Marak
I just sort of assume that my Avernum Party has a reasonably charismatic spokesperson that does most of the speaking for the Party, and the NPCs are typically talking to him or her. Not really much different from Geneforge when you think about it... when you waltz into town with 7 Creations in tow and strike up a conversation, you assume that the NPC is talking to your Shaper PC and not one of his various minions.

Exactly. This is the reason I've never had any problems playing between single person or party games. "You" is still you, no matter whether singular or plural, and the vast majority of games treat the party as a singular entity anyway (story-wise).

The only game I remember vaguely having individual party members stand out was Wizardry 8 and the Star Ocean games. But even then most of the interaction when in a party vs outsider NPCs was still them versus "you". I can't recall off the top of my head any game which regularly made it a point to converse with specific party members and having the others react with individual reactions.

Originally Posted By: Marak

Avernum 3 is right out. You spend a good 95% of your time on the surface world continent of Valorim.

I can attest to this, having just finished A3. I've read about people comparing it size-wise to A2, but A3 always felt smaller to me. Maybe because it was easier to get around, since on the surface there are far fewer obstacles (like cave walls) to navigate. And since I played the entire trilogy, A1-A2 feels more true to the series, however weird that sounds. The surface was just "the surface" in the first two games, and frankly when I first explored E3 I was disappointed to see no sign of the Empire's troop movements into Avernum. I guess they teleported them from the Empire heartland, bypassing the Valorim wilds, and straight into Avernum.

I'm torn between doing A1 or A2 now. I'm leaning towards A2, the only thing holding me back is wondering how many areas are significantly changed / closed off, and whether it's worth doing A1 just to visit them, or should I just skip to the nice war story and do A2.
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X3 definitely had more world map sections, but it also had a much lower density of stuff on the map than X1-2. Similarly, X3 definitely had more towns and dungeons, but those towns and dungeons (especially the small towns) tended to be dramatically less substantive.

 

My suggestion would be to play at least the demo area of A1. Because it's so open-ended you can see most of the towns and talk to most of the people without doing much of anything. Maybe you'll be hooked and finish it; if not, when you play A2 you'll be able to appreciate most of the tiny changes that happen over the course of the six intervening years.

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Wow, less substantive than A3's plethora of pointless small towns? I hate those things, I feel compelled to enter each one and try to flesh out its mini-map, when you know full well that all you're really doing is:

 

1) breaking into the same 2 locked houses with 6 coins and a Robe in every dresser,

 

2) talking to 15 clones each of Farmer and Guard and Townsperson (who don't want to talk to you anyway), and

 

3) "enjoying" the random selection of 3 Nameless Vendors In Their Tiny Shop(s), chosen from the massive pool of Merry, Fletcher, Innkeeper/Barkeep, Tailor, Blacksmith, and Provisions.

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