Experience Penalties

[jimbob]

Hello, everyone. I apologize if these questions have been asked already, but I have attempted to find the answer using the search function.

1. How does a 70% experience penalty (The maximum, I believe) affect a group of 4 character's ability to reach the maximum level in Avernum 1,2,3, and Blades of Avernum?

2. Is the level cap reached in each of these games near the end regardless, or can it be reached considerably earlier with a lesser experience penalty (Say, 30%)? In regards to Blades of Avernum, only consider the experience gained from Vogel's 4 original scenarios.

3. These questions are assuming that all of the sidequests are done, and assuming that an excess amount of unnecessary fighting (Say, repeatedly fighting special encounters that never disappear, like empire outpost fights on Avernum 2, and things like slaughtering the guards in every town) is not done.

Thanks to everyone who responds!

[Alorael at Large]

1. You only lose a few levels by being at very high penalties. You may not hit the level cap, but your party will be stronger for it. It has no effect in A3/BoA, but because there are no caps. In BoA there isn't even anything remotely like a finite amount of experience.

 

2. I think this is answered before. You end up a few levels lower with high penalties. In A1 I think you'll still hit the cap, in A2 you might not, and in A3/BoA there's no cap.

 

—Alorael, who could answer more helpfully if he knew why you cared. The level caps aren't something particularly amazing to hit. You don't get special bonuses. In fact, levels become fairly unimpressive once you're high enough in level. The traits are better than the levels.

[Randomizer]

Level caps really are noticeable when you use fewer than 4 characters. A singleton character can easily hit the 40 level cap in A1 before doing any of the major quests. At this point all that is level are knowledge brews for skill points.

[jimbob]

Alorael, I was wondering if it was still possible because there is a "Feeling of completeness" that I get from reaching the maximum level in these games. I have played them before, but I have completely forgotten the details of my groups. Basically, the only way to get such a high experience penalty would be to get the Divinely Touched trait. Since you said that the traits are better than the levels, a more specific question would be if Divinely Touched would be of any benefit in these four games. I figure it would be worth the penalty if it gives an unseen bonus to each stat at certain levels, which is what some people say. I was wondering what the general consensus was on the benefits of Divinely Touched on these four games. And also, if you have a file with high experience penalties, could you tell me the levels that you reached on each game, if it isn't too much trouble? Thanks to everyone who responds!

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

Sorry, I don't have any savegames around to look into. I can safely say, though, that Divinely Touched (plus a second trait like Natural Mage or Elite Warrior) is essential in A5 (so I guess A4 too) and should not be dropped just for a little more Exp. In A1-3, Divinely Touched isn't that much of a burner, but still very good. Get it for characters who don't need Elite Warrior AND Natural Mage, or a similar combination which might be important for a special char/party build.

 

It's fun to play around with positive and negative traits, the number of chars in a party etc, but in general, you can say that more positive traits is always a good thing.

[jimbob]

So what was the consensus on how Divinely Touched affected a character, other than the abilities it gives, in Avernum 1-3 and Blades of Avernum? I think that it was Avernum 1-3 where all it did was give the abilities, which would be useless, in my opinion anyways, especially considering that a shade is a pretty useless summon even at the start of the game. I would take Divinely Touched if it gave statistic bonuses, but I'm not sure if it does this in Avernum 1-3 or Blades of Avernum. Maybe it does this in Avernum 5, but I do not have that game. Thanks to everyone who responds!

[Slawbug]

Divinely Touched is very different in A1-3/BoA, and A4-5. I'm not so sure about the first category, but I think it just gave a slew of bad abilities. In A4-5, however, it gives:

 

A flat 20% armor bonus

+1 to Blademaster, Magery, and Sharpshooter at level 1

An additional +1 to Blademaster, Magery and Sharpshooter at every multiple of 4 levels

 

Thus, at level 36, you can expect +10 to Blademaster, Magery, and Sharpshooter. That means an extra 10 dice of damage with every attack you make. In comparison, if you don't take it, you might have an extra 2 levels worth of experience, which translates to 10 skill points, and a small fraction of additional HP and SP.

 

Divinely Touched is orders of magnitude better than not taking it.

[jimbob]

Hmmm, I could swear that someone said that it gave bonuses to stats every couple of levels on either Avernum 1,2,3, or Blades of Avernum. I was just trying to figure out which one Divinely Touched was actually useful on between those four, so that I could know which one to get it on. And I think it was Blades of Avernum that it gave the Divine Aid ability, which is actually a useful ability in my opinion, and that the power of the shades that are summoned actually increases from a lowly shade to something more powerful. Am I correct on this? It sounds very useful for Avernum 5 as Tri-Consonantal Rout pointed out, but I do not have that game. Sorry for so many questions on this one topic, I just really want to figure out if Divinely Touched gives statistic bonuses in any of the Avernum series that I mentioned, so if anyone knew this information it would be very helpful. Thanks to everyone who responds!

[Alorael at Large]

Divine Aid was in A3 as well, and possibly earlier. I'm also fairly sure Divinely Touched gives noticeable bonuses to things, notably combat, in A1-3. It seemed something like Elite Warrior.

 

—Alorael, who unfortunately has no numbers or Slartanalysis to draw on. It may be a placebo effect. He'd like to imagine that even in A1 Jeff wouldn't make his most expensive ability worthless.

[Lilith]

Divinely Touched gives you a point of Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence every 8 levels in A3 and BoA. These actually show up on your character sheet, so there's nothing invisible about them. On the other hand, the stat bonuses aren't really that big in the scheme of things: the main reason to take Divinely Touched in those games is for the Divine Aid ability.

 

Also, be very careful about taking anyone's advice on traits: Alorael's giving you the standard advice for A4 and A5, but that's not what you're looking for. Experience scaling works differently in earlier games, and taking traits with experience bonuses or penalties can actually make a huge difference to your final level. In BoA, I ran two level-25 parties through Bahssikava: one with two advantageous traits on every member, and one with two disadvantageous traits. The first party ended up around level 45-50; the second ended up at level 75-80.

[Sss-Chah]

i don't think i've ever actually reached the level cap in any avernum game.

[jimbob]

All right, I got my question answered now. Again, thanks to everyone who responded!