Fledgling Fyora Zoston Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Hey, I'm a new member of the forums (actually just signed up to be able to use the search function). I bought the original Geneforge 7 years ago, but never looked much at the sequels (I'm the type who doesn't like more of the same in games) but I came back for the conclusion and enjoyed Geneforge 5 immensely. However while surfing the net I found this article: Reflections On Geneforge By Scorpia I was rather surprised to read that apparently Geneforge is less popular then the other series? I personally find Geneforge by far the more interesting of the series, the combination of open-ended storyline with lots of possible endings, creation party-mechanics and a fun pseudo-science world with lots of bio-based tech is what got me to buy the game in the first place. Don't get me wrong though, what Scorpia says makes sense to me, but I wanted to know what the people of this forum thought about it, has Jeff ever said anything about why Avernum is apparently more popular? Are RPG fans really such boring people that they want the same old fantasy worlds (which, btw, to my knowledge have gone completely out of style afa the fantasy novel industry is concerned) latter rinse repeated? Please share your thoughts, Zoston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Zoston Don't get me wrong though, what Scorpia says makes sense to me, but I wanted to know what the people of this forum thought about it, has Jeff ever said anything about why Avernum is apparently more popular? Are RPG fans really such boring people that they want the same old fantasy worlds (which, btw, to my knowledge have gone completely out of style afa the fantasy novel industry is concerned) latter rinse repeated? Jeff has said something about it, and your last sentence is pretty much what he's said, although he was very slightly more diplomatic about it. He originally wanted to make Geneforge pure sci-fi with no magic at all, but he didn't think that would sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I love Geneforge far more than Avernum. However, Avernum is a remake of Exile, which was the first series Spiderweb produced. Because of this, Avernum is somewhat of the flagship series for Spiderweb, so it gets more attention (from my perspective, that is) than Geneforge. In fact, I don't believe that Geneforge was ever meant to be a series, and instead meant to be a single game, like Nethergate. Also, that Scorpia seems to be a hack. Half of that information is wrong about the Geneforge. I wouldn't take anything he says that seriously. Anyway, give the other Geneforges a try. They are all absoulutly amazing . The Last Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Xelgion Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Most people are too stupid to play to Geneforge, thats why. Having to make diplomatic choices choices? Oh noes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Xelgion Most people are too stupid to play to Geneforge, thats why. Having to make diplomatic choices choices? Oh noes! People enjoy Fallout just fine, and that also gives you (some) factional choices and a karma meter. —Alorael, who thinks Geneforge would be immensely popular for being different and interesting if it had a larger budget, pretty graphics, and good advertising. Without those, it's just a niche RPG that's trying out a slightly different niche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And maybe a different name, because "Geneforge" sounds a little stupid. The Last Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Doctor J Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I haven't yet made it through all the games of each series, but from what i've seen i like Avernum better than Geneforge for nitpicky reasons of mechanics: #1) It is a PITA to have to make multiple trips to properly loot an area, because only one character can carry stuff. Why can't Shapers make some sort of pack mule type creation? #2) Geneforge does not tell you the value of an item until *after* you have hauled it to the store. Avernum lets you know before you pick it up. #3) I intensely dislike the artificial limitations on how much money the stores have to trade for your loot. Once the store has given you their alloted sum of money, it never ever gets any more. On top of that, whichever faction you've joined is stamped on your forehead. Thus even if they have money you may not get it. #4) If i keep getting smacked down by a certain enemy, i appreciate the option of temporarily giving myself a boost in the editor. Here again, the Avernum games stand head and shoulders above the Geneforge games. Not only is the Avernum editor built in as opposed to a third party hack, but it covers much more than just character stats. #5) I would have to say it appears that Mr. Vogel himself likes Avernum better than Geneforge. Why else is it that in Avernum you can get a full selection of avatars [choice of gender and race] for each character class, but in Geneforge your avatar is fixed for each class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 For number two, you can see the value of an item by holding the cursor over it. The Last Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Doctor J Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan For number two, you can see the value of an item by holding the cursor over it. Perhaps it does so in later versions, but i'm not seeing this in G2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Geneforge 3 onwards fixes your complaint about number 3. (Number 2 gets fixed somewhere along the line as well, as Ackrovan pointed out. I'm not sure which game. Probably in G3 as well.) Dikiyoba totally agrees with you on point one. Between encumbrance (older games) and the prevalence of charms (newer games), one person just can't carry much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Orc Lover Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Doctor J Geneforge does not tell you the value of an item until *after* you have hauled it to the store. You can quickly figure out which regular items have value and only pick those up. Also, unique items are generally valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Chessrook44 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Actually number one is fixed in 4 and 5....... sort of.... But then, you must remember that many RPGs DO have the limitation on carrying capacity. Even the father Dungeons and Dragons. It's just people tend to treat backpacks as being somehow able to carry three full sets of armor and four weapons while still being under the unmoving encumberance level. Although I will admit, being able to carry my hoard off 25 Living Tools and god-only-knows how many potions that I save for when I never use them without having to worry about the weight they make IS really handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Doctor J Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Chessrook44 But then, you must remember that many RPGs DO have the limitation on carrying capacity. I should have been more clear. I don't object to the concept of encumbrance. What i'm objecting to is that in Geneforge my party only carries about a quarter of what my party in Avernum does. Originally Posted By: Chessrook44 Although I will admit, being able to carry my hoard off 25 Living Tools and god-only-knows how many potions that I save for when I never use them without having to worry about the weight they make IS really handy. ?!? Is this another thing that changed in G3 or later? As of G2 i DO get penalized in AP for carrying too much. That's why when i traded up from the Shielding Knife to the Shaped Blade i had store most of my Living Tools back in the house. I also sell off some food items if i accumulate a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 As a result of user comments, Jeff changed encumbrance in G4 so that only equipped items count towards it. The limit is also a bit lower, but it's far more manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 If you look at Jeff's blog, the two worst game sales were BoA and Geneforge 3. The had different reasons why people hated them, but Jeff addressed the complaints in later games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Careful, this is how misinformation gets started! Jeff did not say those were his two worst game sales (although given everything he's said about BoA, it may be reasonable to assume that for BoA). He just called them "unpopular." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 True, but unpopular for Jeff would be low sales since the games are priced usually the same. Jeff also considers A4 successful because of the sales numbers. Certainly that game was unpopular with previous customers even though we bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Right, but "low" is relative and not synonymous with "worst" in any event. And A4 was unpopular with a certain subset of forum users. It wasn't actually unpopular by a particularly gross margin here -- though the preference for A5 does seem to be nearly universal -- and we are a pretty self-selected subset of his customer base as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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