Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 shapers can shape food. Also the shapers can shape war creations. All the sholai have are reguar weapons and weak magic. Making the sholai alpha food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The Shapers don't really have a good reason to invade an entire continent, especially while they're busy fighting a civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 they have the perfect reason, the sholai tried to steal their secrets. Im talking about after g1 before the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 True shapers could make food, but if the trip was thought impossible for so long it has to be a realy long trip and how long does it take before all your shapers run out of essence. Seeing as the would be in the middle of the ocean with no access to a essance pool. They could take essance pods but that would lower food stores. They would reach the sholai land hungrey, low on essance, lost and seperated. The sholai may not have shaping but they will be well fed and energized. And they will have alot more troops due to all the sea borne losses to the shapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin they have the perfect reason, the sholai tried to steal their secrets. Im talking about after g1 before the war. Again, how exactly does that justify the massive military expenditure needed to make war on an entire continent? It'd be the equivalent of America invading China; yes, they're both spying on each other and they know it, but a war isn't in either of their interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 to take out the sholai all you need are 20 good shaperes. The shapers could land without the sholai knowing. Absorb their living crafts create clawbugs to burrow and create a temporary base in which they can create essence pools and all the neccessary supplies. And masha says the trip is only about a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And then what? What would the Shapers consider a victory? They're not just going to go in there and exterminate all life on the continent. Do they plan to administer all of the Sholai lands under Shaper rule indefinitely? They may be an empire, but they're not that aggressively expansionist. Besides, what if the Shapers you send to invade go native? If the Shaper Empire sends 20 of their most powerful and ambitious Shapers, those twenty people might conspire among one another and get it into their heads to teach the Sholai how to Shape. They'd then command the resources of an entire continent from which to invade Terrestia. For that matter, what makes you so sure the Sholai don't patrol their own borders just like, you know, every other country in the world? Even a small force wouldn't necessarily go undetected for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And probably make more Rebel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 what will 20 shapers do against terrestria. Also they might not conspire with one another. and yes destroy all life on the continent, thats the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin what will 20 shapers do against terrestria. Also they might not conspire with one another. and yes destroy all life on the continent, thats the plan. 20 shapers plus the entire Sholai population, who have now been given unrestricted access to Shaping by those 20 shapers. "They might not betray us" is a really stupid, reckless basis on which to build an invasion plan. How could the Shapers be confident of finding twenty powerful shapers so heartless as to accept an order to exterminate millions of innocent civilians, rather than turning against an empire that would give such an order? Apparently this is a new idea to you, but most people think genocide is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The shapers would have to pull alot of soilders out of places to take the week trip to the sholai lands. We dont know how much land the sholai have and presumable they have some sort of scouting system. If the shapers send 200 shapers, guardians and agents and it goes on the 1/3 survive of the sholai, even if they could group up the sholai could attack with thousands. Shapers are good, but not that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 if you send 200 shapers gaurdians and agents, they could attack with the thousands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl How could the Shapers be confident of finding twenty powerful shapers so heartless as to accept an order to exterminate millions of innocent civilians, rather than turning against an empire that would give such an order? Can you answer 2 questions. 1. Who inhabited terrestria before shaper? 2. Where are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 In sheer numbers the sholai could win over the small numbers of underfed shapers. Not realy a victory but how many shapers are there? I was under the idea that there were very few compaired to the area of land the have. And if the sholai population is in the millions they could have an army in the 20 000s with little dificutly. Even if the shapers massed up 1000 I just dont think they are that good. 1. not sure,someone did but it never gave a name( as far as I know). 2. the survivers were melded in with those from the shaper lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Umm, one mad Drakon and a canister addict, Spddin with a few dozen Serviles and Drayks in secret raised one of the most terrible armies the Shapers have ever seen. If 20 Shapers, all of whom are supposed to be the best of the best, make an army for each of them, lets say around ten, that's about 200 creations running around. Now what if they gain followers? Allies? What if they move fast and strike the Shaper Council before they have a chance to respond? We've already seen that the Shapers were too complacent before the war. Seriously, you massively underestimate what a single Shaper. Why in the hell would the Shapers want to invade another country? Did you even talk to the Sholia who weren't conspiring with Trajkov? Trajkov was acting on his own accord. The Sholia have made it extremely clear that they are not a threat, in G1, G3, and G5. Were are you getting this fixation that the Sholia are bloodthirsty monsters? And, in case you didn't know, the Shapers want to be their friends in the G1 Shaper ending. Why would that have changed? Quote: If you read the game scripts the shapers have kept the world in peace until the rebellion started. Also the serviles don't seem to develop feelings if they are not left to become independent. In the times before G1 if they had just taken the serviles with them this whole rebellion would've been avoided. They might have had to deal with Trajkov but he is just an outsider who cant even control the power correctly and he's an idiot if you would like to see an example If you played the games through and through, you would know that its been hinted several times that this is not the first time the Shapers have had a rebellion on their hands. This is just the most severe. Speak to Alwan again in G5. He said that the Shapers can return to the status quo again if they are strong enough. Again. That implies that they did it again. That they fought and won a war again. And the Shaper ending in G4? I admit this may be wrong, but the Shapers intended to keep very good record of this rebellion instead of the others, or something along this idea. The Shapers aren't these perfect hero's that can make all your problems go away. They can't even handle a problem responsibly without sticking it in a hole and calling it Barred. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 There were the woods people from mera tev warriors from storm planes an dbenhold was of the dera reaches people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Who said the sholai were bloodthirsty? All I was trying to say was that they would have a good chance at defending them self if it came to it, and given the shapers past history it might come to it. As for the power of 1 shaper, yes shapers are powerfull. But the army you mentioned would have no problems about using illigal creation. put that together with all the journy/food/death/plauge problems the sholai are not in that bad of a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin There were the woods people from mera tev warriors from storm planes an dbenhold was of the dera reaches people. So you admit that the Shapers have repeatedly committed genocide and yet you still side with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Please note that I posted that when Spddin asked how could 20 Shapers do anything to the Shoila The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 a powerful shaper such as the one in alwans lab. (whose name i forgot) can create 40 creations and keep them under control. If you get 20 die hard loyalist shapers that's 800 creations. each creation could maybe take out at least 15 sholai. that's 12,000 sholai dead. The shapers, hiding in their pit can then just recreate more creations and do it again. Then when numbers dwindle in sholai population, the shapers can go out, and finish them off, BAM!! no more(or very few) sholai left. the rest will intergrate into the population as the woods people did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Please tell me why again that the Shapers would like to attack the Sholai. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 For no reason, yet. Im sure they can figure out a reason if it come to that. But those who fight the shapers well...ussualy lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The shapers (i have never seen) probably keep them near him at all times to prevent them from going rogue. I dont think any of the shapers would give an to make rogues and relesing them into an area as its one of, if not the highest laws. And cowering in a hole while the creations kill your oppestion doesnt seem like the kinda thing the shapers would do given their past history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 What? Child, did you get knocked on the head? Are you advocating a continental war for the hell of it?! Not even a reason to go with it? The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 They are cowering in their fotresses now as the rebellion rages, as is said in the game. "if the shapers had fought on the front lines instead of in the safety of their fotresses you wonder how quickly the war would be over. And the shapers can control their creations from miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Some would do it but most wont i don't think the council would trust anyone for that mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Thats just stupid. Yeah, put your generals in the foxholes. Nothing can go wrong. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 I was just saying they could have war for the hell of it, or if the sholai do something else to make them angry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I have no real reason why the shapers would attack the sholai other then they seem to like conquest. It seems that at some point there will be war. Who will win? The longer they put it of the more chance its the shapers. At the end of g5 in the shaper endings the sholai might win a war, but that power wouldnt last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 They Shapers have no resentment towards the Sholai at all. The Sholai as well. The Shapers are cruel Tyrants, but they are not pure evil. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan Thats just stupid. Yeah, put your generals in the foxholes. Nothing can go wrong. The Last Archon Thats what they're doing now. and as the raze one town to the ground, populate it ceate more essence pools raise another army, destroy another town. They could also use those crystal thingies so they can control creations from far. You are underestimating shaper power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 No, you are ignorant of Shaper power, which is sad because I'm a Lifecrafter, if anything else. And, I would say, you are overestemating Shaper power. If it were as simple as "go find a hole, make monsters, send them to kill, chug some essence, repeat" the Shapers would have won this war a long, long time ago. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I think determining reason behind a second war would be to hard as noone knows the true ending to g5. The shapers might not exist anymore, the rebellion could be dead. Or the trajovites might have gained some power. Untill, and I dont think this is going to happen, Jeff tells us what the real ending was, any war that might happen is to uncertin to know a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 not when the enemy can also shape. That adds a whole new dimension. If the drakons couldn't shape. The war would've been over a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 You're missing the point; those kinds of tactics can only work for so long. Remember Moseh? The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 What's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Reread the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 ok,i see the point. but they dont have to work that long. give it a couple of weeks and it is all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 It might just be me but sending waves of creations from holes seems more like something the Rebellion did once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Well it is true that Moseh got killed but with Moseh there were two armies attacking him with the support of a rally powerful lifecrafter. But it still wouldn't last when the gain ground they will need to move or they will lose control of the creations. So that plan is flawed they could just attack the shapers while they move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 I said the shapers destroy a town and move to that town, therefore they are moving along with there creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Quote: But it still wouldn't last when the gain ground they will need to move or they will lose control of the creations. So that plan is flawed they could just attack the shapers while they move Quoted for truth. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin I said the shapers destroy a town and move to that town, therefore they are moving along with there creations. .....Why would the Shapers destroy a town? For the hell of it? Are you even taking this argument even remotely seriously? The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 I said if they get mad at the sholai, and they attack. OF COURSE they would destroy towns, we're talking about WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I am (now thinking about it) suprised that the Rebellion didnt try and get the sholai to help, or did and were turned down. If so, why didnt they tell the shapers about the coming Rebellion? As a token of goodwill aid the shapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Regardless, its not the Shapers style to invade. They prefer to sit happily on their thrones and ignore the rest of the world. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 we just went through this. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF TERRESTRIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 That was then. This is now. Get with the times. The Shapers have changed after all this time. They no longer care to conquor, and greatly prefer to trade. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I believe the Sholai explicitly state in one of the later games that they are waiting and watching and intentionally not taking sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Calm down, and we might be able to get a ending to this. We did mention the natives, and they were absorbed not wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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