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Avernum 5 skills not appearing


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I've just registered Avernum 5, the latest version downloaded two days ago. Running on a Mac PowerBook G4, OSX 10.4.11.

 

The special skills aren't popping up when they're supposed to for my party. For instance, Magery is supposed to pop up at INT 8 + MAG or PRI 6. It's not. Ditto for Quick Strike, Blademaster, etc.

 

I removed all the juiced equipment to make sure my party had the right skill levels. I then got into the character editor and raised all the levels to 15. Nothing appeared.

 

What now?

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Do your characters have the Natural Mage or Pure Spirit traits? The requirements for special skills are only met by skills you've bought with skill points (or, occasionally, gold). Traits that boost your stats don't help.

 

I'm also fairly sure special skills won't become available until you've not only raised your skills to 15 but also accepted the changes and possibly loaded the save with the game and not just the editor.

 

—Alorael, who would be very surprised if there were a genuine major skill bug left. It's possible, but it's unlikely.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
You're saying that you are adding skills with the Character editor, but they aren't appearing?


Not quite. He's trying to unlock special skills by adding their prerequisites with the character editor.
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Originally Posted By: Thuryl
Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
You're saying that you are adding skills with the Character editor, but they aren't appearing?


Not quite. He's trying to unlock special skills by adding their prerequisites with the character editor.


Exactly. When the skills didn't appear under normal play, I went into the editor and ramped everything up to 15. The skills did not show up in the editor itself, before any saves. Also, if a special skill is part of a character trait - like Blademaster for the Elite Warrior - it shows up at the start of the game and stays there, but I can't raise it after I hit the prerequisites that should unlock Blademaster.
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Okay, update. This is weird. I went back to the character editor and ramped everything up to 15. Then I went to "character traits" and unchecked everything (Elite Warrior, Natural Mage, etc.). Then when I went back to the stats window, the special skills appeared.

 

But...it won't let me lower the stats, only increase them!

 

So...in the course of the game itself, hitting the prerequisites for the special skills did not unlock them (even after removing juiced gear).

 

Then the character editor didn't unlock them when I juiced everything upwards.

 

Until I unchecked the character traits.

 

Then it unlocked the special skills but wouldn't let me revise back downward to get the normal party back.

 

Curiouser and curiouser...

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Normaly people don't use editors to make them weaker.(At least that I know of) If you want prievious stats back, go to a prievious save. Or maybe you could play the rest of the game without adding any skill points.

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What I was hoping was that the editor could unlock the skills (if it's a bug, not a feature) and then I could revise the stats back to normal. Because it doesn't make sense that a Natural Mage would not get Magery at INT 8 plus MAG 8. Unless there's a rule I'm missing.

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Not really - that is, when my party hits the prerequisites for skills, the only way to get them is to go into the character editor and uncheck the special traits. Are Natural Mages, Elite Warriors, etc. ineligible for the special skills in regular play?

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Traits don't give you special eligibility, including the traits that raise prerequisite skills, but they also don't stop you from getting those special skills.

 

The only other thing to try is making a backup save, using the editor to give your party a whole bunch of Wisdom Crystals or Knowledge Brews, and then raising your skills without the editor to levels well beyond what's required as special skill prerequisites. Does that unlock them for you?

 

—Alorael, who is still leaning towards bonus skills from somewhere as an explanation. Natural Mages get more skill with Mage Spells, but those bonus points don't help you unlock Magery. Sliths get Polearms, but those extra Polearm points don't give you access to Blademaster.

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Alorael, good idea. I'll create a level one human party with no special traits, add points with a ton of wisdom crystals, raise the prerequisites to the right levels, and see if the special skills unlock. Stand by.

 

Update: okay, still a good idea, except I can't figure out the script to add wisdom crystals. Anyone? (Thanks for your time, folks; much appreciated.)

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The key point to remember is that the special skills do not unlock based on your actual score in Spellcraft (or whatever). They unlocked based on HOW MANY POINTS YOU HAVE BOUGHT in Spellcraft (or whatever). Bonuses from items, races, and advantages do not contribute, and neither do the initial 2 points you get in each basic stat.

 

This topic has been discussed a million times before, and the answer is always the same. No, you have not discovered some special new bug; you are either overlooking something or you are using a list of special skill prerequisites that is erroneous.

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I didn't think it was a bug; just trying to figure out what I did wrong. As I said, I know that bonuses don't count.

 

The specials skills prerequisites list is the standard one from this board; I think what threw me was the difference in traits plus the editor not recognizing (even on extremely high numbers) until after removing traits. It may have been discussed before, but on searching topics pretty diligently I couldn't find it.

 

Anyway, it looks like that's enough answer for me - if I've read this correctly, and after several more rounds I still don't have the special skills, I'll just edit to fix. Thanks all.

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Originally Posted By: Coach
The specials skills prerequisites list is the standard one from this board; I think what threw me was the difference in traits plus the editor not recognizing (even on extremely high numbers) until after removing traits. It may have been discussed before, but on searching topics pretty diligently I couldn't find it.


It's probably not removing the traits that unlocked the special skills for you: it's simply leaving the stat-editing screen and then re-entering it. Doing this "locks in" the previous changes to your stats, which prevents an exploit that existed in Nethergate where you could raise prerequisite skills, train in an unlockable skill and then lower the prerequisites to get the skill points back. Unfortunately, in your case that's exactly what you want to do, except without the skill point part since you're using the character editor.
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Thuryl's right in that special skills don't show up unless you leave and reenter a window where you can use the skill points to raise a skill. This also occurs when you create a new character and want to give it parry (6 dexterity and 6 defense).

 

The changing the character traits didn't give you suddenly the special skills, it merely locked in the change.

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