Tenderfoot Thahd abvball Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I know that this skill (well lack thereof) gets you a 40% exp bonus, so i tried making a party with all four characters with this problem. I put the game on hard and boy it really is hard. In regular games I always give my mage/priest brittle bones, because theyre never really in the mix anyways. but completely inept is totally different. has anyone else tried this? any experiences to share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A forum member once ran Hapless, a single character with Cursed at Birth and Completely Inept, through Avernum 2. He found it difficult but managed to win. Negative traits that give you an experience bonus tend to be worse than they appear. The traits are bad enough to hurt and the experience bonus is reduced by the fact that you gain levels faster and therefore get less experience from most things you kill. You'll be a few levels higher, not 40% higher in level. —Alorael, who more importantly finds the positive traits compelling enough that he never has room for negative traits. That means this whole post boils down to lacking personal experience with negative traits and therefore limited ability to offer advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's doable in torment so far in my game, but it's hard at the start and you have to be careful with your build to avoid getting hit. As Alorael said you go up quicker at the start and those extra skill points add up. I've read it's harder with 2 positive traits since you go up slower and don't have all those extra skill points to allocate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 In the first three Avernum games, experience bonuses and penalties actually make a significant difference, much more so than they do in A4 and A5. The difference between a character with two positive traits and two negative traits by the end of the game will probably exceed 10 levels, whereas in A4 it'll be more like 4 or 5. Completely Inept isn't bad as long as you put nearly all your fighters' early skill points into weapon skill so you can actually hit things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 In A1 and A2 the negative traits make the beginning harder, the middle easier, and the end hard again when you hit the level cap. In A3 there is no cap and things get better. —Alorael, who still points out that the difference between two negative traits and two positive traits is going to be 100% or higher. If you expect to get a 100% difference in levels, you will be highly disappointed. The negative traits are viable, but they certainly aren't optimal together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: abvball I know that this skill (well lack thereof) gets you a 40% exp bonus, so i tried making a party with all four characters with this problem. I put the game on hard and boy it really is hard. In regular games I always give my mage/priest brittle bones, because theyre never really in the mix anyways. but completely inept is totally different. has anyone else tried this? any experiences to share My favorite party combines "Completely Inept" with "Cursed at Birth," with four combination priests/mages; I sometimes even play on the hardest difficulty. It can be done. Originally Posted By: Alorael The negative traits are viable, but they certainly aren't optimal together. That's news to me. I always play with two negative traits, and have no problems; it's just harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 It depends upon the negative traits. Sluggish really hurts for a long time until you increase dexterity and quick action to compensate. Going last is a good way to die in some encounters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Sluggish is always terrible and not worth using for the lost AP alone. Even Brittle Bones isn't as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Feo Takahari Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Sluggish is always terrible and not worth using for the lost AP alone. Even Brittle Bones isn't as bad. It can be rather funny, though, particularly when given to a mage who's also wearing armor that drops his AP a point. I thought of him as my REAL tank: move, fire, move, fire, repeat. (Mind you, this being a mage, "fire" was literal.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I've often wondered what would happen if you combined Sluggish with Fast on Feet. Wouldn't they just cancel each other out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 No. In most games at least, not sure they all worked this way, Sluggish permanently reduced AP while Fast on Feet only provided a chance of it increasing, so the net effect is negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Sss-Chah Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 i know it's just a game, but realistically, why would someone who's completely inept or has brittle bones want to be an adventurer? i can understand sluggish and maybe even cursed at birth or sickness prone, but why would someone who basically sucks at life even bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Without save and reload, why would anyone want to be an adventurer? You end up dead very fast. Also note that many Spiderweb games have adventuring thrust upon you. In A1 you could conceivably take your exile and settle down somewhere, but you appear to lack all marketable skills but killing things. In A2 you're doing your duty for king and country. In A3 its the same, and no one else is particularly enthusiastic about you and your second-tier compromise party either. —Alorael, who notes that all (successful) Avernum parties have characters who manage to do their jobs even with negative traits. The character in aggregate must consider himself or herself good enough. Sure, being inept doesn't help, but when you're pretty good at everything anyway (and that seems to stretch "inept," doesn't it?) then it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I wrote an analysis of the place of adventuring in society for EE a long while ago: http://encyclopedia.ermarian.net/wiki/Adventurers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Sss-Chah Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Stareye and the Siege of Spidweb Without save and reload, why would anyone want to be an adventurer? You end up dead very fast. Also note that many Spiderweb games have adventuring thrust upon you. In A1 you could conceivably take your exile and settle down somewhere, but you appear to lack all marketable skills but killing things. In A2 you're doing your duty for king and country. In A3 its the same, and no one else is particularly enthusiastic about you and your second-tier compromise party either. —Alorael, who notes that all (successful) Avernum parties have characters who manage to do their jobs even with negative traits. The character in aggregate must consider himself or herself good enough. Sure, being inept doesn't help, but when you're pretty good at everything anyway (and that seems to stretch "inept," doesn't it?) then it doesn't matter. i guess that makes sense, but at the same time, if you have brittle bones, you probably won't be putting yourself in harm's way very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Adventurers with brittle bones often are spellcasters who hide behind people with strong bones and big killing devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Sss-Chah Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 even still, you would be more likely to find spellcasters with brittle bones learning the craft in a school than from the studies of monsters with equally big killing devices. then again, now that i think about it, maybe having brittle bones is kind of like being anemic. before modern advances in medicine, you didn't really know that you had it until it was too late anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Toby-Linn Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Does anyone else think about Joxer (from Xena) when discussing completely inept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn Does anyone else think about Joxer (from Xena) when discussing completely inept? He is completely in wrong profession. On Dragonlance-books Raistlin had health-issue which made him weak but still he was powerful mage (as black mage, as red mage he was weakish at beginning). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: Earth2025 Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn Does anyone else think about Joxer (from Xena) when discussing completely inept? He is completely in wrong profession. On Dragonlance-books Raistlin had health-issue which made him weak but still he was powerful mage (as black mage, as red mage he was weakish at beginning). Raistlin may have grown more powerful as a black mage, but he was always a very powerful mage, even when wearing red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Sss-Chah Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 i never bothered watching xena. a butterface warrior princess never really interested me too much, even when i was little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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