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New Windows 3D Editor


Ishad Nha

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This is apparently not included in the Cocoa text rendering engine. Steps to reproduce: Open TextEdit. Create a new Rich Text Document. Type some text, select it, and change the font to Geneva. Note that in Font submenu of the Format menu, the Italic and Bold items are disabled. Repeating the same steps, but with Pages, note that while the Bold and Italic items are enabled, they do nothing.

 

I assume that the reason for this is that since most fonts are now supplied with bold and oblique variants, it was decided that trying to second guess font designers and programmatically generate bold glyphs wasn't necessary. Geneva is rather unusual, in the it was originally a pixel font which was only later laboriously converted to an outline font.

 

I mostly noted this because it was a curiosity, not because it's all that important.

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Changing Subject

Currently the large icon view uses blown-up 16*16 editor icons to represent the floor/terrain in 48*48 squares. This looks ugly or less than ideal. There are two solutions:

Have a new intermediate view that uses each editor icon as is, 16*16, it will be around 35 or 36 squares in each dimension. Monster icons will be the small 12*16 outdoors icons.

Simply create a whole lot of new 48*48 editor icons. This will require a re-write of the content of the terrain icon palette.

 

Edit:

It may be 46*46 not 48*48.

 

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The second solution would be useless, since you don't have access to the game source.

 

I say just leave it as is. It doesn't really matter that it's ugly since it's only for the purpose of designing; enlarging it like that makes it easier to see; and I can see no benefit for an intermediate view that the map view does not already provide.

 

 

 

And yes, it's 46x46. I checked.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have just realized that the 3D Editor graphics are loaded at run-time, they are not compiled into the program itself as I originally assumed. As the graphic was included in the 3DEditorGraphics subdirectory of the source code I just took it for granted that the thing was compiled right into the program. Maybe it is only there for show, I should looked more closely at Blscened.rc

I did all sorts of grotesque mutations to G4915.bmp, after making a back-up copy of it. Then I immediately started the 3D Editor, all of the mutations were plainly visible.

 

This bitmap was altered as part of the recent versions of the Editor, hence it is now included with my upload of that program. It will need to replace the original G4915 graphic in the 3D Editor Graphics folder.

This is also true for the BoE Scenario Editor.

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Latest idea is to have an edit terrain script screen that will show all ten memory cells and allow use of the tab key to move from cell to cell. I might insert arrow keys to permit moving from one screen to another.

Then again I could increase the size of the program display and make room for more lines below.

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Clear Selected Instance has been made an independent function. It clears the lower left part of the screen, thus it removes any information about the selected monster, item or terrain script.

A Clear All Placed Specials command has been added to the Outdoors menu.

 

Biggest single change is the increase in the size of the game screen, now there are two extra lines of information at the lower left. Items and terrain scripts now show their location, easy to tell one script from another. Edit this Script and Edit this Placed Item commands have not yet been implemented. All ten terrain script memory cells are shown.

First four creature memory cells are shown too.

 

I will alter the items display too:

1 Item #: (Name) 8 IsCursed(is this possible)?

2 Edit this Placed Item 9 Item Location

3 As now 10 (Blank)

4 As now 11 (Blank)

5 As now 12 (Blank)

6 As now 13 (Blank)

7 As now 14 (Blank)

 

Town / Outdoors zone name is always displayed at the bottom right of the screen. Type of floor or terrain that is currently selected was moved up to the second line.

 

I have uploaded a separate version, because people might not appreciate the changes:

http://www.freewebs.com/ishadnha/VariantBoA3DEditor.zip

 

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I have altered the hot key arrangement to a straight 'A' thru 'Y' for the first 25 keys, 'Z' is place terrain script. '[' and ']' are Zoom Out/In and 2D/3D respectively. Toggle Hintbook mode is now '-'. Cut, copy and paste selected object are now ',', '.' and '/'.

I tried to use '\' but the compiler would not have a bar of it.

Now there is a q,r numerical display mode where the center of the screen is shown by '4,4'.

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Code:
beginscendatascript;begindefineterrain 356;//	clear;	te_name = "Waterfall";	te_which_sheet = 500;	te_which_icon = 0;	te_anim_steps = 4;	te_second_icon = 4;	te_special_property = 44;	te_second_icon_offset_y = -55;	begindefineterrain 357;	clear;	te_name = "Pipe";	te_which_sheet = 500;	te_which_icon = 8;	te_special_property = 44;


My scendata script. The editor ignores me when I click on terrain 357. I might have mentioned this on SV once a while ago. Oh, on windows build 39 or 37. I just forgot.

I can beam the whole scenario if necessary to the developers.
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That may be necessary. You may also need to describe more clearly what problem you're having. I assume that if you select the terrain, it cannot then be drawn? Or are you saying that you don't think it is selected at all? Also, try using one of Ishad Nha's newer builds, not the crufty old sourceforge one. (I doubt the problem has actually been fixed, but that way we would know for sure.) Lastly, I tried this in a scenario with the Macintosh editor and observed no incorrect behavior.

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It's not the editor's fault this time I'm afraid.

 

Took a look at your script by posting it into the scen I'm building, and had the same problem you did of the editor not picking it up (probably because we're both using the SourceForge editor). Tweaked it, and it now works:

 

Code:
	begindefineterrain 357;	clear;	te_name = "Pipe";	te_which_sheet = 500;	te_which_icon = 8;	te_special_property = 44;	te_ed_which_sheet = 512;	te_ed_which_icon = 3;

 

I don't have your custom graphics sheets obviously, and am unsure why you didn't need to define a custom terrain for 356 (which worked perfectly, albeit didn't look like a waterfall with my custom graphics). This does however place your "Pipe" into my scenario (even though I have it looking like a painting).

 

- Archmagus Micael

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  • 2 weeks later...

An idea has just come to mind, using the arrow keys to alter which floor or terrain type is selected. Up key would select the floor/terrain type immediately above the currently selected type, Down key would select immediately below. Left and Right would select immediately to the left and right. Page Up and Page Down keys could move up or down half a dozen lines. I will have to find the time to program this idea.

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I do not think that this is a good idea. The arrow keys are already used for moving the view (in the Mac version at least, and I think that the PC version should follow this, as it's what player/designers intuitively expect.) and are secondarily used to move the selected placed object. Giving them another meaning or changing their meaning would be confusing.

 

Specifically, I don;t think that the described feature would itself, in isolation, have much use. When I go to select a terrain or floor there is a (sometimes lengthy) pause while I try to spot the one I want. Having done so, selecting it with the mouse is a very quick operation, while it would take additional time and thought to use arrow keys to move my selection from wherever it is to the item I now want to select.

 

In short, I think that we don't need more or different ways to select terrains, floors, etc., but rather would benefit most from new and improved ways to locate such things within the palettes.

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Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha
An idea has just come to mind, using the arrow keys to alter which floor or terrain type is selected. Up key would select the floor/terrain type immediately above the currently selected type, Down key would select immediately below. Left and Right would select immediately to the left and right. Page Up and Page Down keys could move up or down half a dozen lines. I will have to find the time to program this idea.
Sorry, the arrow keys are used already.

Originally Posted By: Niemand
I do not think that this is a good idea. The arrow keys are already used for moving the view (in the Mac version at least, and I think that the PC version should follow this, as it's what player/designers intuitively expect.) and are secondarily used to move the selected placed object.
I don't think the arrow keys move the view – that's the numeric keypad.

Originally Posted By: Niemand
In short, I think that we don't need more or different ways to select terrains, floors, etc., but rather would benefit most from new and improved ways to locate such things within the palettes.
So, perhaps type / (or `, or F) to activate "find mode", where you can start to type the name of a floor or terrain and it highlights the first terrain that matches.
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As a Windows-using BoA designer, can I just say that I do not particularly want a hundred-and-one shortcuts to select terrain, or to scroll the view, or to be able to search for a terrain by typing. I can already select terrain or scroll, with my mouse, and it really isn't that hard to find a terrain.

 

What I do want are things like an undo function. A bigger view area (being able to see the same-sized area as a player would in-game would be lovely). A fill button. Those would be amazing. I'd like the "Clear All" tools fixed. I'd like the "place object" to keep the object I'm placing selected until I tell it to stop.

 

And, most of all, when all that is done (because I'm sure a lot of it is), I'd like to know where I could find a STABLE, WORKING, and DOCUMENTED version of this editor. As it is I'm still using the Sourceforge build, because I don't want to download Ishad Nha's version, simply because I have no idea what I'd be getting. As grateful as I am to him for taking the time out to do this - and I am really stoked that we're getting the same awesome things the Mac users have - I do think he needs to know that there is a difference between making an editor to his tastes, and making one that will be useful to others.

 

Just my two-pence worth.

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Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha
On Windows the only thing the arrow keys move is a selected object, they never move the view. Numeric keypad does that.
That's exactly how it works on the Mac, and that's exactly why you can't use the arrow keys for anything else.

To Nikki: To be fair, adding keyboard shortcuts won't affect you if you don't use them. As long as they aren't the only way to do something useful, that is. Apart from that, I mostly agree with what you've said. (Clear all, documentation)
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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

To Nikki: To be fair, adding keyboard shortcuts won't affect you if you don't use them. As long as they aren't the only way to do something useful, that is.


No, I totally agree. It's just that whenever I seem to look at this thread people are discussing keyboard shortcuts, and not even shortcuts that make sense, or would be useful.

For instance, to select terrain/floors there is already a customisable shortcut tool provided: "fl_shortcut_key".
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My version does have a readme file. There is supposed to be an undo, courtesy of Niemand who actually knows how to program, unlike me.

If you download a freeware compiler you can compile your own version, if you learn a bit of programming. Then you can create one that suits your own tastes.

Object = field, it stays selected when you release the Shift key. Choose Shift + A on my editor to end the selection.

Object = item, monster or script? Once selected it stays selected.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha
On Windows the only thing the arrow keys move is a selected object, they never move the view. Numeric keypad does that.
That's exactly how it works on the Mac, and that's exactly why you can't use the arrow keys for anything else.


Actually, in the Mac version the arrow keys move the view as well, which I find pretty useful when using a laptop keyboard (along with the possibility to move the view with the trackpad).
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Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha
Object = field, it stays selected when you release the Shift key. Choose Shift + A on my editor to end the selection.
Object = item, monster or script? Once selected it stays selected.
Uh, what? Why is Shift-A ending the selection? That doesn't make any sense...
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Originally Posted By: Nikki
As a Windows-using BoA designer, can I just say that I do not particularly want a hundred-and-one shortcuts to select terrain, or to scroll the view, or to be able to search for a terrain by typing. I can already select terrain or scroll, with my mouse, and it really isn't that hard to find a terrain.

What I do want are things like an undo function. A bigger view area (being able to see the same-sized area as a player would in-game would be lovely). A fill button. Those would be amazing. I'd like the "Clear All" tools fixed. I'd like the "place object" to keep the object I'm placing selected until I tell it to stop.

And, most of all, when all that is done (because I'm sure a lot of it is), I'd like to know where I could find a STABLE, WORKING, and DOCUMENTED version of this editor. As it is I'm still using the Sourceforge build, because I don't want to download Ishad Nha's version, simply because I have no idea what I'd be getting. As grateful as I am to him for taking the time out to do this - and I am really stoked that we're getting the same awesome things the Mac users have - I do think he needs to know that there is a difference between making an editor to his tastes, and making one that will be useful to others.

Just my two-pence worth.


Undo/Redo is in and should be finished (In the non-Sourceforge version). The fill tool is programmed, but can't be put into the UI until we rearrange it as was done with the Mac version, as the additional buttons won't fit otherwise. The sticky object mode is easy to implement if we haven't already. These things are under way, but all require more of the precious resource of time.

With regard to sticking with the Sourceforge build: I can understand this, and I would argue that the builds Ishad Nha has been posting are basically nightly snapshot builds, for the bleeding-edge enthusiast. We need to get a few more features put in and cleaned up and then we'll see about making a new release version that should be in good order for designers to actually use. (We will also hopefully be putting the Mac and Windows versions on a single download page again to cut down on confusion.)

With regards to documentation, about the most that you will be seeing is release notes that describe what's been added. Jeff himself wrote 37 pages of documentation about the editor itself originally, which is markedly less than it needed. Add to that the fact we are still discovering new things as we look at the code, and that to usefully add material to a definitive document we would need to rewrite Jeff's documentation, and hopefully you'll see why this hasn't been done. I agree that it should be, but I for one do not have the time. (I did try to start, a year or so back, and still have, I think, the beginnings of a nice LaTeX document if anyone else really wants to pick it up.) This is also not a job that has to be done by a programmer; any user could write 90% of the necessary documentation and get clarifications from the people who work with the code.
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From Celtic Minstrel:

"Uh, what? Why is Shift-A ending the selection? That doesn't make any sense..."

Shift + A is the basic drawing tool on my Editor, it cancels other modes like placing objects. I rearranged all the hot keys.

My changes tend to focus heavily on hot keys because that is about the level of my programming knowledge.

If you really don't like my changes you can download a freeware compiler like Bloodshed's Dev-C++ and have a go at the code yourself. People here may be able to tell you what you need to do to make desired changes.

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No, the Shift + (Key) shortcuts were all changed.

Certain Ctrl + (Key) shortcuts were retained: C,D,L,O,Q,R,S,T,V,X. Along with the numpad and arrow keys.

If you don't like that scheme you can compile your own, the relevant function is:

Boolean handle_keystroke(WPARAM wParam, LPARAM /* lParam */)

It is found around line 2,000 in the source file EdFcns.cpp, the code is very easy to follow too.

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Existing Hot Key Assignments:

Place Bounding Walls: Shift + A

Hintbook Mode: Shift + M

Paint Rectangle: Shift + R

Select/Edit Object: Shift + S

Swap Walls 1-2: Shift + W

Change Drawing Mode: Spacebar

Delete An Object: Delete

Insert Floor/Terrain: Numeric Keypad 5

Toggle Viewing Mode: Tab

 

Apparently Delete an Object was actually just Delete, the Shift key seems to have been unnecessary.

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