Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Why Exile Trilogy not become open source like BoE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Because Jeff didn't feel like doing so. Which means he is still making enough money from new sales to keep selling it instead of letting it go for free. Or he doesn't feel like looking for the source code which was why it took so long for BoE to be open sourced. This is only a guess since the only real way to get an answer is to email Jeff and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 It's already been answered by Jeff. It would take him ages to find the source code (it's been lost in loads of files or something) and it wouldn't be worth doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If that's the only reason, I wonder what his position would be on the possibility of redoing them as a BoE scenario... ...though of course the BoE engine would need new features for that to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If someone was good enough with the BoE Source code they could write up the whole of Exile 3, along with anything else they wanted to add in. It would be awesome but it means that someone has to be willing to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 And it means that permission from Jeff would be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Jeff would probably give permission if someone emailed him about it. I guess it would depend if he still wanted to make money from the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Exactly. Of course, redoing Exile 1 and 2 in BoE might be kind of hard, since the game mechanics are somewhat different... ...however, I believe Ishad Nha would be able to do a successful conversion. He's actually been working on one, but without all the interactive stuff (events, special encounters, what the people say, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I doubt Jeff would give permission. If you really want to play the Exile games (like me) there are much easier ways to accomplish that, than remaking them in BoE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Well I already own all the Exile games lol. I bought them ages ago on the trilogy disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Not sure what sorts of ways Slarty is talking about. Anyway, I own them already too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The Exile 3 template is found at: http://www.freewebs.com/ishadnha/exthree.zip It has the first 21 large towns. I left out the alternate (damaged) versions of the five main towns because they were too specific to the plot of Exile 3 itself. By main towns I mean: Krizsan, Shayder, Sharimik, Lorelei and Gale. Edit: As I recall there were problems because BoE is limited to exactly 256 terrain types whereas the Exile 3 game had provision for more, the mechanics of the two games were different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 BoE's Editor has a limit on nodes too, and Exile 3 must use way more than the editor allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 My count is that it uses 40 placed nodes versus the 50 of BoE. Total nodes I don't know about, I don't know where that information is stored. The terrain types problem seems to be the bottleneck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha The terrain types problem seems to be the bottleneck. Yeah... something should be done about that, but I'm not sure what... Though... how many of the extra terrains are only used in plot-relevant places? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I have not fully decrypted the town entries, in the town.dat file, so I can't currently say. Looking at the Exile 3 graphics then looking at the terrain types of a blank BoE scenario, what I see suggests that a lot of the problems will come in Vahnatai areas. Terrains like Vahnatai machinery, strange walls, slime pools and barriers seem to be the problem. Depends how define plot-relevant of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I suggest implementing the slime pool as a monster rather than a terrain type... and the barriers are certainly plot-relevant. So that's at least two you don't need. I'm not sure about the machinery – you may be able to do without those too. And the Wall of Filth is probably unnecessary, unless you want to include the friendly roach cave. P.S. You're not saying you actually created a blank scenario to look at the terrain types? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 That is four down, pentagrams are still not included. Currently the spreadsheet contains errors, I am not too sure what is happening. I gave up when I hit the excess terrain problem. Terrain in a blank scenario, look at bladbase.exs for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha That is four down, pentagrams are still not included. I forget, does E3 even use the pentagrams? I don't remember seeing them... Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha Currently the spreadsheet contains errors, I am not too sure what is happening. I gave up when I hit the excess terrain problem. ...? Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha Terrain in a blank scenario, look at bladbase.exs for example. Yeah, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha The terrain types problem seems to be the bottleneck. A BoE Scenario can hold up to 256 different types of Terrain, and Exile 3 uses 287 in total. 31 pieces of Terrain would have to be taken out... Also I am pretty sure Exile 3 uses way more Scenario Event timers than BoE. Maybe I'm wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 My mistake, E3 has no pentagram graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: Emz Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha The terrain types problem seems to be the bottleneck. A BoE Scenario can hold up to 256 different types of Terrain, and Exile 3 uses 287 in total. 31 pieces of Terrain would have to be taken out... Also I am pretty sure Exile 3 uses way more Scenario Event timers than BoE. Maybe I'm wrong though. Would it be too much to ask you to post a list of the 31 terrain types used in Exile 3 that are not part of the default terrain set in Blades of Exile? Incidentally, Ishad, Exile 2 actually has terrain types that Blades lacks even the graphic for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Emz Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Okay I just realised I counted wrong because I counted each of the 4 sets of animations as 1 each. Ugh this is annoying. The terrain isn't actually much of a problem at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Oh, so for each animation subtract 3... how many animations, then? Water, water rock, water bridges (2), lava, waterfall, conveyors (4), fire, torches (2)... did I miss any? That's 13; 13 x 3 = 39... ...that can't be right... Were you counting graphics, though? Because it might be that one graphic is used for more than one terrain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I count (4*50) + 32 = 232 conventional E3 graphics. Then there are 14 animations. This gives a total of 246 graphics. Now some graphics are used for more than one terrain type, prime example are door pictures. Then there are blocked terrains. One approach is this: when I draw up a conversion table I take the town.dat file and alter the terrain in one town map. New terrain is all type 0 except for one specimen each of types 1 thru 255, all neatly arranged in lines of 17. Then I send the party into this town and examine each terrain type. (I keep a 48*48 grid of hex numbers saved in a spreadsheet for this, also a 64*64 grid.) In Avernum 3 there are two types of floors, "cave" and "surface". Thus type 0 in the first is like BoA type 0 while type 0 in the second is like BoA type 37. So in Exile 3 I will need to try this in a surface town and in a cave town. (I of course make a back up of the town dat file.) Edit: That is the theory, in practice I find terrain types occuring on the automap but not in the town, then I get all these "No room for graphic debug # # #" messages. Edit: Another approach is to see what is on the map, then look at the spreadsheet and see what number that type of terrain has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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