Some basic questions about skills in Avernum 1

[Vent]

The in game help isn't fully clear if Cave Lore and First Aid are group skills like Arcane Lore. Are those all group skills?

 

In a tips section I saw that the Nimble Fingers trait didn't work in Windows version 1.0. Is that true for any version of the game?

 

I met an adventurer in a town, he want join the group. I was wondering if later when he level up I choose the skills or if this is the engine?

 

From tips I read it seems that it's the engine and it's dependent of the slot number where the adventurer is put, something strange as you could change that. Or perhaps it's the slot number when he join. Can someone provide a bit more explanation about this?

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

1. Cave Lore is the same as all Lores - it's a group skill. First Aid, however, is not. That wouldn't make any sense because it's an ability each character can use individually. Just read the in-game description to the right - if it says "The more of this skill in your group, the better", you know what the deal is.

 

2. Don't know about that. But then, Nimble Fingers is one of the most useless traits you can choose anyway.

 

3. If someone joins your group and is put in slot 1, he/she gets the Elite Warrior trait, if he/she is put in slot 4, he/she gets the Natural mage trait. Slot 2 and 3 don't do anything.

Now, as soon as he/she has joined, you can allocate his/her skill points in whatever fashion you like, just like all your other characters. The traits and bonus skills (like Find Herbs) are unchangeable, though.

[Earth]

Why Nibmle Fingers is bad? Rogue is good to have and NF is good trait for Rogue.

[Alorael at Large]

You need someone to pick locks and disarm traps, but you can handle that just fine without spending a trait on Nimble Fingers. You only get two, and Nimble Fingers isn't nearly good enough to be worthwhile if you're buying sane levels of Tool Use.

 

—Alorael, who will point out that NPCs who join your party are treated identically to standard characters once they're in. The two tricks are traits, which you've noticed, and the fact that they have a set level at joining. Getting one much higher in level than your party can be advantageous, although it can also do weird things to the experience curve.

[Vent]

Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno

1. Cave Lore is the same as all Lores - it's a group skill. First Aid, however, is not. That wouldn't make any sense because it's an ability each character can use individually. Just read the in-game description to the right - if it says "The more of this skill in your group, the better", you know what the deal is.

Thanks but no the in game help isn't that clear in Avernum 1, read the cave lore description traits you won't find the sentence you quote.

And I don't see why for First Aid it's so obvious, this is a group trait in Avernum 5, could have been like cave lore, a wrong text description. After battle there's all the time that the more skilled characters aid other isn't it? :-)

Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno

3. If someone joins your group and is put in slot 1, he/she gets the Elite Warrior trait, if he/she is put in slot 4, he/she gets the Natural mage trait. Slot 2 and 3 don't do anything.
Now, as soon as he/she has joined, you can allocate his/her skill points in whatever fashion you like, just like all your other characters. The traits and bonus skills (like Find Herbs) are unchangeable, though.

Thanks for the explanation that's much more clear now.

EDIT: Sterling Samurai: Yes that's the logic I finally followed.

[Dikiyoba]

First aid in the original trilogy is not anything at all like first aid in Avernum 4 and 5. It's a special skill that can only be used once a day, not something that takes effect after every combat.

 

Dikiyoba doesn't even bother to get first aid in the original trilogy. It's much more efficient just to give everyone a few points in priest spells.

[Alorael at Large]

Seconded. You don't want First Aid before A4. It's infrequently usable and never useful. It would be a bad skill if you paid for it with coins and got it cheap. For skill points it's downright insulting.

 

—Alorael, who thinks the obvious trick to figuring out whether skills' usefulness is by character or totaled over the party is whether you have to select one character to do whatever it is your doing. Attacks, spells, and abilities such as First Aid are individual. It's not a great test, because obviously many skills don't have obvious one-character uses, but it helps. Or you can just remember the limited number of party skills.

[Randomizer]

A3 allowed for buying first aid in the Portal area from Hamer. Still you need a lot before you heal instead of injure.

[Vent]

Thanks for the tip I feel first aid very handy in A5 but I won't bother in A1. In fact when I saw that I need a kit with limited charges and need apply it manually I gave up.

 

About restore I really got bad luck in A1, for my first dungeon I get in the Ancient Crypt when looking for a dragon, and then get trapped with no possibility to restore mana, I hate the game during some seconds or even minutes.

 

EDIT: I have another question, this time about the special skills you can use once per day. How restore those dam abilities in A1? Even rest didn't restore them.

[Alorael at Large]

I never paid much attention. It takes a certain amount of time, though.

 

—Alorael, who would guess that the amount of time is however long it takes for the calendar to get to a new day, or possibly the game equivalent of 24 hours. That's several rests, at any rate.

[The Mystic]

I think three rests equal one day.

Originally Posted By: Vent

Thanks for the tip I feel first aid very handy in A5 but I won't bother in A1.

In my opinion, First Aid is next to worthless in A1-A3; you'd probably be better off using potions, crystals, and/or priest spells.

[Callie]

I never found first aid helpful in any of the games. I'd rather just cast a healing spell.

[Lilith]

First Aid can restore spell points in A4 and A5, though, which means it lets you cast more healing spells.

[Slawbug]

First Aid is quite astoundingly good in A4. It's more balanced in A5 and therefore less worthwhile.

[Callie]

Hmm...First aid was so bad in the trilogy that I never bothered later on, and consequently never learned that first aid restores spell points. Oh well, there's always next time.

[Vent]

I played a part of A1 in past but you forget details as time pass. So I started A1 with A5 rules in mind and that lead me to weird things. I hadn't realized the one day rule was so bad and took useless traits relative to that.

 

Also it's not clear that the insight xp is working in a similar way, it seems less strong. It's strange because I remember you could hardly have one level of difference between characters because of traits but it was probably not for A1 because it seems behave differently.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Excalibur

Hmm...First aid was so bad in the trilogy that I never bothered later on, and consequently never learned that first aid restores spell points. Oh well, there's always next time.

I discovered that First Aid was better in A4 & A5 the first time I played them; consequently, I buy a few levels.