Level 3 spells

[Lattan]

I'm confused about how they work now. If you get a point from a spellbook before you've learned (from sages/mages) the spell up to level 2, is it possible to get to level 3 in that spell?

I've just found the spellbook for Heal and I haven't previously learned it.

[Hinter in the Hinterlands]

The spell system isn't limited to three levels anymore, and you don't need to know a spell at all to benefit from a tome. Instead, you can purchase up to two levels of any spell at any time. You can buy them before learning spells from other sources or after getting the spell to level 5 from finding books scattered in Avernum. The order isn't important.

 

Interestingly, the same is true for the few places in which you can get a bonus to skills applying to your entire party. There are several places where you can have your entire party gain a point of Endurance, for example, but it doesn't increase the cost of training Endurance at all, so there's no point in waiting before getting the bonus. Single character increases (such as from trainers who will give you skills for money) are treated the same as purchasing an increase with skill points.

 

—Alorael, who was very happy with this change. It's much better than having to record the locations of spells and skills until you have already learned as much as you can from normal sources.

[the horned slayer]

THERES FIVE LEVELS!!!

[Tunes]

Quote:

Originally written by Periodic Emotion:
You can buy them before learning spells from other sources or after getting the spell to level 5 from finding books scattered in Avernum. The order isn't important.

Just looking for some clarification, as I've found tomes to be one-read only, and I don't want to end up making a decision I'll regret later. You're saying that I can read a book of any given spell, and then go to a trainer to teach the spell twice more, putting me at the third level?

I had assumed beforehand that if you read the book but did not already have the improved spell learned, that you would not benefit. I might be mistaken, but that's the impression I had from the other Avernum titles, and I'm sure that's how it was in exile.

This would be spectacular.

[Hinter in the Hinterlands]

Exile has only one spell level. Previous Avernums are order dependent in that most tomes don't teach you anything unless you already have the spell at level one, but most then skip level two and put you straight at three. You can also go back and reread tomes.

 

Blades of Avernum has a system like what you're expecting.

 

In A4 it doesn't matter whether you read first or buy first. You'll end up at the same place for the same price. The only thing to avoid is reading tomes while you have dead characters, because they won't benefit and you can't go back and read it again later.

 

—Alorael, who is sure there are at least five levels of spells, although he didn't find five for all spells and won't rule out a level six spell that he missed.

[Celchu]

Quote:

Originally written by Periodic Emotion:
The only thing to avoid is reading tomes while you have dead characters, because they won't benefit and you can't go back and read it again later.

Actually, I was experimenting with this earlier. Cleric died halfway through a battle, part of the reward was a Heal spellbook. Read it with the mage and fighters, revived the cleric. Then read the book again; she went up in the spell, the others stayed at the previous level. So there's never any danger that comes from reading a spellbook.

Heh, I just realized that that was my first post here after having an account for over a year. crazy.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Celchu:
Heh, I just realized that that was my first post here after having an account for over a year. crazy.

[Dark Mage]

Quote:

Originally written by arghhhhhhhhh:
THERES FIVE LEVELS!!!

Oh damn I always hated that part of BoA, well I still hadn't seen the A4 spells but the 5 levels are so annoying! And make them to lose the allmightyness of the 3rd level.

[Hinter in the Hinterlands]

Yes, levels are much less signifcantly different now. They all do the same thing; it's just a matter of how high the numbers are or how long the effects last. Level 1 is the critical one, and after that it's not all that important.

 

—Alorael, who would like to know the exact rates of equivalence for Magery, Spellcraft, and spell levels. Unlock is probably the easiest spell to test, but he doesn't have any party ready to test it.

[Synergy]

It is interesting to note that Spellcraft costs 2000 from Cecil in Cotra, but Magery costs 1500 and both are said to be "Pretty Average" in cost. This suggests Spellcraft is 1/3 more powerful than Magery, though I bet it isn't actually.

 

I have an endgame test setup for unlocking the L35 door with my mage/thief, and I bumped up Magery till it would open last time. I'll do a comparison to see how many levels of Spellcraft it takes and report back.

 

EDIT: The results are in! I put them in a more specifically relevant thread.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Automated Posting Unit AL0-335:
—Alorael, who would like to know the exact rates of equivalence for Magery, Spellcraft, and spell levels. Unlock is probably the easiest spell to test, but he doesn't have any party ready to test it.

Augmentation or Enduring Armor would be even easier to test, IMHO, since they give the same bonus to HP every time you cast them, and you don't need a locked door to test it. My prediction: extra spell levels won't do awfully much. The exact "conversion rate" between spell levels and spell-power-boosting stats may be different for different spells, though; it was in BoA.

[Hinter in the Hinterlands]

The Augmentation description lies. The amount of health gained is not dependent on caster stats, or at least not dependent in a way that makes any detectable difference when I tried training Mage skill and Spellcraft.

 

—Alorael, who isn't too disappointed. Augmentation is already in the running for most abusable spell, although Enduring Armor really wins that category hands down.

[the horned slayer]

—Alorael, who would like to know the exact rates of equivalence for Magery, Spellcraft, and spell levels. Unlock is probably the easiest spell to test, but he doesn't have any party ready to test it.

Quote:

WHO IS ALORAEL!!!!

[Slith Lord]

Alorael is the guy who posts stuff which ends always with Alorael-...

 

He´s also one of the most helpful visitors of these boards. You can find him in 3 ways:

 

1. look for a post like described above; 2. look for a visitor with a everchanging name(mostly it doesn´t makes any sense for newbies); 3. look for one guy with the number 335;

 

4. Never write such stupid questions about Alorael while being angry!

[Hinter in the Hinterlands]

Wow. I've never inspired so many angry (or embarassed) graemlins before.

 

Argh(etc.), to quote someone you need to click the quote button located on the post you're quoting. I don't quite understand what you're doing, but as you may have noticed you're not putting quotes in the right place.

 

The standard format is:

 

[ QUOTE ]Originally written by name of poster:

[ QB ]Stuff that you want to quote goes here[ /QB ][ /QUOTE ]

 

Remove the spaces inside the brackets and it'll come out right.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't see how the post asking who he is is evil. He also doesn't see how masked profanity, which is a violation of the Code of Conduct, was in any way necessary or useful. Please refrain.

[kuc]

You stick up for someone, and they burn you down.

 

Harsh.

[Synergy]

I admire Alo for his impartiality. One's defender should not receive special permission to violate the CoC any more than one's antagonist.

[Kelandon]

Argh has asked this question before, has been answered, and has paid no attention.

[Synergy]

Worst case of ADHD I've ever seen in print.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Periodic Emotion:
—Alorael, who is sure there are at least five levels of spells, although he didn't find five for all spells and won't rule out a level six spell that he missed.

I just got Smite to level 6, so there's at least one spell that can be raised that high.

[Synergy]

Hey yeah, Thurly, you're right. Smite does go up to 6. It's the only spell I got that high. In fact the only level 5 spells I ever got were [EDIT out five spells so as not to spoil] This is at my endgame save and I did everything in the game, so should not have missed any. There are a fair number of spells which never make it past level 2 and some never past level 1.

[Lattan]

Quote:

Originally written by Synergy:
There are a fair number of spells which never make it past level 2 and some never past level 1.

Though as some of us are slowly realizing (I'm really slow sometimes), it doesn't much matter. Getting a higher level in the spell doesn't change the spell's capabilities any longer like it used to, and if you look at the spell power level, it's the sum of mage/priest, spellcraft, and the spell level (also presumably magery, but that's not in the manual). So the spell level adds between 1 and 5, whereas (by endgame, anyway), your other skills are probably responsible for something approaching 20 points. Kind of boring, really, given the costs of increasing spells that high.

[Savarius]

I what I find particularly frustrating with the new spell system is largely the fact that attaining the highest levels of spells in previous Avernum games meant a significant boost in what you could do in the game. Level 3 Haste became a mass haste spell, Level 3 Safe Travel meant walking on lava. Even the upper level of spells like Arcane Shield meant more protection than lower levels. Now it just seems like spells last longer.

[Slith Lord]

Quote:

Originally written by Xeno's Paragua:
—Alorael, who doesn't see how the post asking who he is is evil. He also doesn't see how masked profanity, which is a violation of the Code of Conduct, was in any way necessary or useful. Please refrain.

Sorry for writing this, but I was just too angry about that guy.
I edited my previous post so that it does not violate the CoC anymore.