Four Retribution!

[Nioca]

Which version of the spell Divine Retribution do you prefer? The Avernum 1-3 version or the Avernum 4 version?

[Ephesos]

Ah, that's an easy one. I prefer Divine RETRIBUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

(But honestly, the A3/Boa Retribution wasn't terrible... if the damage were a bit more impressive, I'd use it a lot more. And just so you know, A1 and 2 didn't have the spell at all.)

[John S]

Didn't Divine Retribution give out enfeebling/cursing/other-bad-thing back in the days of A1/A2 at level three? Does it still do that in A3?

 

Whichever game(s), that's the version I like the most.

[Lilith]

Yeah, BoA Divine Retribution enfeebled opponents. Enfeebling does pretty much what it says on the tin, and is fairly effective. Of course, it still only works against living opponents.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Kuber:
Didn't Divine Retribution give out enfeebling/cursing/other-bad-thing back in the days of A1/A2 at level three?

Back in the days of A1/A2, there was a little thing called Divine Warrior, which easily trumps any incarnation of Retribution.

[Dintiradan]

The loss of Divine Warrior and Beast Ceremony is to be mourned (though A4's Arcane Shield is like Beast Ceremony without the Haste). I actually used A4's Retribution, though: by the time you got it in A3, you mage could well outdo the priest with a good Fireblast.

 

The best part of A4's spells is how Divine Host summons one shade.

 

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He who hasn't hacked assembly language as a youth has no heart. He who does as an adult has no brain.

- John Moore

[Tyran]

A4's Divine Retribution makes me nostalgic for Shockwave, which means it's fracking awesome.

[Micawber]

With the advantage that Retribution doesn't hurt allies, giving it a slight edge. I remember once casting Shockwave in Rentar's Keep in E3, forgetting that Erika was also in the room. Oops, now I have two insanely powerful magi trying to kill me...

 

Edit: The A4 Retribution also has an edge over the GF version Aura of Flames, because the latter uses a lot of energy and can't be cast repeatedly. With energy potions, you can go on casting Retribution for as long as the potions last.

[Aoslare]

Shockwave makes me nostalgiac for Tremor.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Facepalming Hecatonchire:
Shockwave makes me nostalgiac for Tremor.

Hee hee. Were there really any spells besides Tremor and Resurrect that were worth using Mandrake on?

EDIT: Well, and Gate Travel, which probably saved my life more often than either of the other two.

[Upon Mars.]

Are we obliged to post ?

Any way i think that geneforge 4 spells are better they look relly real.

[nikki.]

Quote:

Originally written by opon mars:
Are we obliged to post ?
Any way i think that geneforge 4 spells are better they look relly real.

No, we are not obliged to post. Especially people with sloppy spelling...

As for my two cents, as it were, I think Divine Warrior was easily better than Retribution. I used the former constantly, and the latter infrequently.

[Sudanna]

Agreed. Divine Retribution was just not worth it by the time you found it, and Divine Warrior had that nice little invulnerability thrown in.

[Fort]

Once I got Divine Warrior in A1, I was practically invincible. Grah-Hoth went down rapidly because he could not handle my 3 hit per turn mauling power. My 2 PC party was even more awesome because they were both warriors and because the mage could also cast Arcane Shield eventually. They successfully slaughtered Sulfras without breaking a sweat.

 

Though I have not had the pleasure of trying out the A4 version of Divine Retribution, I am sure it simply cannot compare to Divine Warrior.

 

My favorite spell from the Exile days was the ridiculously overpowered Major Blessing spell. Revive was a lifesaver as well.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Garrison:
Though I have not had the pleasure of trying out the A4 version of Divine Retribution, I am sure it simply cannot compare to Divine Warrior.

Maybe not, but 100+ fire damage to every enemy on screen comes pretty close.

[Nioca]

And don't forget, it's cheap!

 

...

 

Well, comparatively.

 

I thought Retribution was in A2, though...

[Dikiyoba]

Nope, A2 still has Divine Warrior.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Randomizer]

Hasted A4 divine retribution is great for clearing the screen, especially when fighting the Shades of Ice and Fear (? the one in Almiria).

 

I do miss divine warrior since it gave spellcasters 3 attacks per round. I could clear out Grah-Hoth's demon buddies in a few rounds or race up the tower to kill Hawthorne. My spellcasters used all my remaining energy potions and elixirs slaughtering everything.

[Micawber]

It's the shade of venom in Almaria.

 

I didn't miss Divine Warrior too much in Avernum 3, because Heroic Brew has the same effect and you can gather herbs and make them.

 

I do miss it in Avernum 4, although not as much as mass haste.

[nikki.]

Quote:

Originally written by Micawber.:
I do miss it in Avernum 4, although not as much as mass haste.

Seconded.

Removing mass haste was probably the biggest non-BoA thing I hold angainst Jeff.

[Randomizer]

You should have heard the beta testers complaining when Jeff removed mass haste from mass energize in Geneforge 4. The change was reversed in the next beta since speed spores didn't help enough. That is something that I really missed in A4. It was the first mage spell cast going into a major fight since the old major blessing from Exile was gone.

[Drakefyre]

I complained heavily about the lack of mass haste and other mass boosting spells in Avernum 4 during the beta period. And disabling spells too. There are too many damage and summoning spells.

[Micawber]

Yes, I miss the disabling spells too. There's Daze, Slow and Terror, and that's pretty much it.

 

Those 3 are pretty good, however. A4 Terror is much better than its A3 counterpart. Daze has been awesome, since the days of GF2. As for Slow, although it only affects one enemy it is still pretty useful - some spellcasting enemies can be totally neutralised using Slow, because the AI wastes all its action points casting Haste every round, allowing you to attack it for free.

[Dintiradan]

You forgot Control Foes, which really changed the way I played A4 when I got it. For the first half, the game was all about sneaking around, nailing each foe off one by one. However, the minute you got Control Foes, you could charm nearly anyone (no more ranks in Control Foe like in previous games). Once you got the spell, you stopped taking groups down one enemy at a time. Instead, you barrelled into them. As long as a couple of enemies were charmed at any point in time, you were okay. (I think Delicious Vlish pointed out that in Geneforge this tactic works better in Torment. Probably the same in Avernum.)

 

As for Mass Haste... I dunno, but I always found it a bit unbalancing. You can still do fine in A4 with it. The 'race to Haste' was one of the few challenges of early battle. Besides, you have Mass Haste scrolls and rods you can use in a pinch.

 

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If God wanted us to use the metric system, Jesus would have had ten apostles.

- Jesse Helms

[Aoslare]

I agree that Mass Haste is very unbalancing. However, the unbalancing thing is really the effect of the buffs, which is (intentionally) huge in all SW games. You can frequently cast lots of individual buffs just before a big fight.

 

So for the most part, Major Blessing just allowed you to spend less time in that annoying spell dialog, though it was also (in Exile anyway) cheaper than all the individual spells combined. There are some notable exceptions though, mainly tough special encounter fights on the overworld -- Major Blessing helped a ton on those.

 

In Geneforge it is a little different since Speed uses so much energy. In the early game you can't multicast it much at all and in the late game it could still eat up most of your spell energy. On the other hand, in Geneforge you only have one character who can do *ANYTHING* other than attack. So mass haste can basically just boost your damage output. In E/A -- especially Exile, with all the spell variety -- it can increase your strategic options tremendously.