Beta Testing Testing One Two Three Four

[Synergy]

I meant to ask this a good week ago. I've been wondering a few things about the beta testing process, assuming this general information isn't confidential.

 

Can anyone answer me the following?

 

1) How many people typically beta-test a Spiderweb game?

 

2) Is it actually fun?

 

3) Is it tedious and repetitive?

 

4) Is there a reward for the hard work besides the privilege? (i.e., a free copy of the game when you're done?)

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled deprogramming.

[Skippy the bush kangaroo]

1) Have a look at the credits for any Spiderweb game. It lists the beta testers - that should give you an idea.

 

2) I found it fun but there are some not-strictly-fun work-like elements to it (like paying attention and trying to precisely document bugs)

 

3) I think Jeff goes for multiple beta testers going over the game a few times each rather than one beta tester going over and over and over...

 

4) The knowledge of a job well done and your place in immortality (or at least, your name in the credits). You also get a free copy of the game.

[Synergy]

Thanks 'roo. If I randomly mentioned "Severed Heads", would you know why?

 

P.S. I counted 18 beta testers for BOA.

[Skippy the bush kangaroo]

Quote:

Originally written by Synergy67:
If I randomly mentioned " Severed Heads " , would you know why?

Well, if you mentioned it randomly I wouldn't.

But, as it so happens, not really .

[Drakefyre]

1) He likes to have 15-20 per platform. Not all are listed in the docs, and BoA had an abnormally large group of testers.

 

2) Yes, but also tedious and repetitive.

 

3) Yes, but also fun.

 

4) Your name in the credits, a free copy of the game, and a jump start on the next game's testing.

 

You will need to go over every inch of terrain at least twice with at least two parties, record every little thing that's wrong (and that's usually quite a bit), and make a nuisance of yourself.

[Dark Mage]

this make me think that maybe i dont want to be a beta tester. i prefer that the game go out for mac so the mac people can make fun of the windows people about all the great things of the game.anyway the windows version is just a few months after the mac, in march maybe?

[Ephesos]

Wait... how would being a beta-tester spoil anything for us Mac users? They're only betatesting the Mac version right now, and Jeff hasn't said anything about Windows testing yet.

[Synergy]

So...Skippy...very good. Did you know it already or did you have to Google it? I take it you noted the song ("Skippy-Roo Kangaroo") which inspired my inquiry regarding Severed Heads, a band originally from Sydney and now centered in Darlinghurst? Where is that? I didn't see it on my world map.

 

What you knew and I did not was where Skippy the bush kangaroo orginally came from, so thanks for that trivia. Most amusing. Severed Heads are a very quirky, silly tongue-in cheek techno-pop-industrial-tape loop kind of band which have sounded like anything from a wall of looped noise to sort of New-Orderish.

 

....

 

I asked about beta testing because I have been graciously invited to participate, and I am curious to know what I'm in for. I was expecting to not be selected and never got around to asking these questions in advance which would have been smarter.

[Ephesos]

Are testers even allowed to reveal that they're testers?

[Synergy]

The NDA focuses on keeping confidential all aspects of the game itself or anything specified as confidential (which didn't include the NDA itself), rather than the somewhat peripheral fact that one is involved in beta-testing. I was hesitant to say it, because no one else appears to be mentioning their confirmation, and I don't want to look smug either. I'm quite pleased of course, and I know it's also going to be a lot of work. I have mixed feelings about doing it, but am sure it will be worth it or I wouldn't have applied in the first place. I'm quite new around here still, so it feels good to be able to give something helpful to the community by doing this.

[Ephesos]

Well, then in that case, I can stop holding back the fact that I got accepted. Victory is mine!

[Skippy the bush kangaroo]

Quote:

Originally written by Synergy67:
Did you know it already or did you have to Google it?

...Severed Heads, a band originally from Sydney and now centered in Darlinghurst? Where is that? I didn't see it on my world map.

I had to Google it.

Darlinghurst is in Sydney - its a suburb very close to the CBD. Doesn't sound like they moved at all. If you go to here and enter Darlinghusrt, in the state of NSW you will see where it is. Zoom out a few levels to get some perspective. The area called "Sydney" on the map is just the CBD.

Hope you enjoy the beta testing.

[Synergy]

Skippy—ah, so I see. Now it all adds up. If you felt so inclined, you could hop on over to sevcom.com, select Classic Albums in the scroll box, find the Severed Heads album Cuisine and click on the MP3 for Skippy Roo Kangaroo. It's really very silly. What is it that makes so many Aussies so delightfully whacked, anyway?

 

Ephesos—hey, good goin'! Your first time too it sounds like? I take it you got your NDA via email, so I'm not sure why you were asking me about the policy? You know what I'm really wondering now is whether it is permissible (or useful) to have private dialog with other beta testers during the testing? Or maybe Jeff sends lots of feedback to everyone about snags and issues people are encountering. I'd hate to get stuck with no FAQ to consult, heh.

[Ephesos]

Well, I just wasn't sure if I'd missed something. I have little experience sifting through legal documents... the NDA took about 15 minutes for me to really grasp.

 

Quote:

Originally from NDA:

Such confidential and proprietary information may be disseminated within the Receiving Party's own organization only to the extent reasonably required for the proper evaluation of the Disclosing Party's products.

From this, it appears that we can consult each other. After all, I believe all testers would constitute the "Receiving Party's own organization."

[Synergy]

Heh, Eph, my eyes quickly began to glaze over trying to read that NDA myself. Not easy to chew through at all, and I had to look at it several times to feel confident I had not missed something critical.

 

I might holler at you at some point if I get stuck or sumthin' if that's cool (privately of course) and you're welcome to do the same if you want. If anyone else knows this is not acceptable according to either the NDA or Jeff's wishes, please pipe up.

[Drakefyre]

I trust that you're smart enough to do it through PM, email, or AIM.

[Ephesos]

Of course... I'm not quite stupid enough to post details here.

 

(#400! Only a hundred until Erudite!)

[Poit]

Out of curiosity have either of you two recieved the beta version yet? I had to send the NDA as an international fax so I'm not sure if it got through, if not i'll just mail it.

[Synergy]

Not yet, Poit. I mailed my NDA since I didn't want to try to dredge up my fax software. I live about fifteen miles away from Spiderweb, so it should have been there by Wednesday or so last week.

 

I'm not sure what happens next...I assume we will get an email about an URL to go to, enter a password and download the beta or something like that?

[Thralni]

Quote:

Originally written by Synergy67:
Not yet, Poit. I mailed my NDA since I didn't want to try to dredge up my fax software. I live about fifteen miles away from Spiderweb, so it should have been there by Wednesday or so last week.

I'm not sure what happens next...I assume we will get an email about an URL to go to, enter a password and download the beta or something like that?

That's only if you have been chosen to test. Not verybody will test. The once that don't get the chance to test wouldn't here anything from Jeff, for as far as I remember.

[Synergy]

We have been chosen to test. We've been talking about submitting our signed Non-Disclosure Agreements which are our contracts with Jeff to beta test.

[Drakefyre]

Once he receives it you'll get the URL and password.

[Thralni]

So he already chose people? I thought he didn't yet... Sorry. Just ignore that last post then. So everybody who was chosen now already got the email saying that you were chosen? I wasn't chosen. Oh,well. I new I wouldn't be chosen anyway, so what the heck.

[Poit]

Thanks both of you, I just wanted to be sure I didn't stuff up my fax. I'm still not sure of course, but at least I know no one else has recieved the beta yet.

[Synergy]

Hey, anyone finally finished the game yet? I'm stuck in what I believe is the last or second to last confrontation. I'm wondering if others are having the same issue I am—might be a bug, or might be something I missed (not as likely). Email me or IM me ASAP, please: Synergy7167 on AOL. I want to finish this thing.

[Drakefyre]

I've started over with a new party after getting to a bit past the Castle with a few older parties.

[Student of Trinity]

Maybe I'm just one of the slowest testers, so everything is fixed by the time I get to it, but I've found beta testing to be not very different from how I play these games anyway, which is to try to expose every pixel and complete every possible quest. I'm still getting a handle on what constitutes a useful beta report; basically, you need to make purely illustrative save files.

 

With a game as huge as A4, it takes really a lot of time just to play through everything at a reasonable rate. This has been my biggest problem. I can probably only really afford to take three months to complete a game this long, but to beta test you have to move faster than that.

 

If we're mentioning where we are, though, I have gotten my one party into the Abyss, having done almost everything doable up to that point. I hope to finish the game this week.

[Kelandon]

I think I just didn't get very far in the first few weeks, because I've been making pretty good progress but am only wandering about the Great Cave at this point.

 

I'm having some difficulty figuring out how to make a good party here — I feel very weak against the enemies that I'm fighting. There are some people I should be able to defeat whom I can't.

[Alorael at Large]

There are definitely tricks to good party building, and even so I found that the balance was very different from Exile and Avernum. Casters are much more essential and melee much more restricted to just supplying a barrier to protect those casters.

 

—Alorael, who stuck with his starting party through the end of the game but who will construct any new parties differently.

[Synergy]

I haven't heard back from Jeffy as to whether or not there is anything I can do to finish my game which is stuck with a bug at the very end. Meanwhile, I started a second game with a different party construction, and on "Tricky" difficulty. So far, I'm much more effective than I was the first time.

 

Drake, you've never actually finished a game yet? I'm surprised, considering you were an alpha tester too. Why do you keep starting over?

[Alorael at Large]

I don't think the game was finishable in alpha testing.

 

—Alorael, who just realized that he made it through the game without quaffing any potions. This makes him a bad tester. What if there is a reprise of BoE invulnerability?

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Student of Trinity:
Maybe I'm just one of the slowest testers, so everything is fixed by the time I get to it, but I've found beta testing to be not very different from how I play these games anyway, which is to try to expose every pixel and complete every possible quest. I'm still getting a handle on what constitutes a useful beta report; basically, you need to make purely illustrative save files.

No, I believe I'm the slowest. I've been going through things so exhaustively (I read everything, from signposts to item descriptions), that I haven't quite hit Almaria yet. Horrible, I know, but I am still finding bugs and strange happenings. I still manage useful reports (at least, I think they would be useful).

[Delicious Vlish]

I am not sure what we can and can not talk about here, but I am glad to see that I am not the only one that feels that melee is **cough** USELESS.

 

As soon as possible the man that engineered the glass cannon agent will inform you how to properly blow stuff up in A4.

[kuc]

One wonders just how much of this conversation should be public domain....

[Alorael at Large]

I don't think anything substantial has been disclosed. A few opinions, maybe, but nothing that tells you much about the game.

 

—Alorael, who also must caution that there have been a few changes since the posts made. Melee skill is now modified by cursor velocity in klicks (har har).

[Delicious Vlish]

Hey Alorael, what did you think of the heat seeking explosive razordisks? Jeff really outdid himself didn't he... Talk about over powered.

 

However, getting the tarrasque placentas so that you can buy those razordisks from the vendor was awfully hard.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Blademaster in Italics:
Melee skill is now modified by cursor velocity in klicks (har har).

Yes, imagine how hard it's been for me... I use a laptop with a trackpad. No mouse. Now, I distinctly prefer magic to melee.

[Alorael at Large]

I take it that you've discovered that two fingers on the trackpad let you choose twice as many targets for the spells? It took me a while to get it to work right, though. Aiming is tough when you only have distance ratios to work with.

 

—Alorael, who never put enough points in throwing to be any good with the razordisks. The wand that summons explosive chitrachs is a lot of fun, though!

[Delicious Vlish]

I'll tell you what got me... The Exploding Townspeople of Silvar.

 

"Oh, hi!"

 

**SPLORCH!**

 

"Oh dear. Hot entrails everywhere."

 

Those folk did a heck of a lot more than just act funny like the AVIV intro claimed.

 

"My tummy hurts."

[spy-there]

To kuc: This is an interesting topic, indeed

[Poit]

Quote:

No, I believe I'm the slowest. I've been going through things so exhaustively (I read everything, from signposts to item descriptions), that I haven't quite hit Almaria yet. Horrible, I know, but I am still finding bugs and strange happenings. I still manage useful reports (at least, I think they would be useful).

I just got the beta the other day so I assume its hit the second round of testing. Unfortunately you guys seems to have done a pretty thorough job and there isn't much left to alter.

Do you know when Jeff intends to release this?

[Ephesos]

Sometime in December, I believe.

[Igor]

Is there still keyboard movement and aiming, or is it all mouse-based?

[kuc]

Quote:

Originally written by Ephesos:
Sometime in December, I believe.

Note: under a month to go

Speaking of which, it'll be a Mac release, with PC generally some 2-3months behind. Will it be runnable on a pc on any mac emulators for the excessively impatient?

[Alorael at Large]

I don't know of any reliable Mac emulators, but A4 is, like all Spiderweb games, light on system requirements. It's worth a try.

 

Movement can be done with the keyboard or the mouse. No letters appear on targets, though, so all aiming and other selection has to be done by clicking except for spells targeting your party members, who can be chosen by number.

 

—Alorael, who very rarely targeted by letter anyway. Not having to press l in order to search various items is nice.

[Synergy]

I finally finished (the end bug is fixed) and have played a couple partial games with experimental parties (all spell-casters/archers was one—very effective, but boring) and now am trying again as a singleton...a real challenge. In fact, I'm thinkiing it will be darn near imossible in A4 to play through as a singleton. I'm digging some of the improved sound effects...the owls or nightscreeches are spooky.

[Delicious Vlish]

I would dare say that playing a single character is now impossible. You must have tool use and some hefty magic ability. There would be to many skill points involved. If you made a mage, you would be mired down in magic immunes and magic resistant enemies. You would be to fragile for combat. And you must be able to cast Dispel Barriers because piercing crystals don't do much.

 

Jeff did a good job at putting a little something for everybody in the game. There is no super character, and no universal approach.

[Alorael at Large]

I'm not willing to rule out a singleton with Elite Warrior (or maybe Divinely Touched) and Nimble Fingers until someone competent tries it. Where's luthien when you need him?

 

—Alorael, who definitely can see some decent opportunities for doubletons. Challenging, maybe, but doable.

[Delicious Vlish]

Tool use must be raised well in to the 20s or the 30s.

 

That's expensive. You could skimp out, but you would miss out on a lot that you didn't open, and being a Singleton, you would need to open those things for items, spells, etc, because being a Singleton you need all the firepower you can muster.

 

Dispel Barrier must be had. No doubt. There are some areas that you simply can not pass with out this. And piercing crystals are to weak. Heck, there are some barriers that are so strong that even a jacked Dispel Barrier level isn't enough... You must really crank out the magic boosting skills.

 

Some of the final gauntlets where you become immobilised through various means would be your undoing. You would want the Strong Will trait.

 

Heck, there are moments where I get the feeling that four characters are not enough and I wish that there was six again.

 

I gritted my teeth and played a game on torment to see how far I could go. I... Well, I have never been so humbled in a game before. I managed to clear the starting areas... I stubbornly managed to claw my way to the first part of the midgame. And then I had to turn down the difficulty. Death was often and frequent, swift, and brutal. Archer anythings meant that somebody was going to die. If the undead got within melee range, somebody was going to die. Nephil Warriors would chop me up into mysterious meat.

 

Overall, I really liked it. I am going to try a torment game as soon as I figure out how to survive encountering remotely dangerous.

 

Getting killed by a Giant Rat was embarassing.

[Kelandon]

I wish you would stop being so melodramatic. Tool Use doesn't have to be raised anywhere near there. Fifteen is a reasonable amount, and combinations of certain items will boost it at least two or three points, so you can really survive with it around twelve or so.

 

If you think that twenty or thirty is necessary, you're missing some keys.