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Hi, I'm Arcane. You might remember me as the guy who was going to make trainers/editors for the series a long, long time ago and never finished. Wait, forget that part. I've been playing the Avernum/Exile games on and off since elementary school, and I've never beaten one. I generally just wandered around a lot. A few days ago, I was going to give a friend of mine Exile 3's demo so he could go through what I used to and experience the series. After a few hours of messing with Dosbox and Linux Mint, I gave up and installed Avernum 3 to give it a shot. After a little while of playing it and forming an opinion, I decided to play through the series from the first game. Since then, I've been burning my way through Avernum 1, and I had a few opinions on it I figured I'd mention. I have no idea if this stuff's accurate past Avernum 1 or in the new Avernum remake. First off... I feel like the game's got a bit more travel than it needs to. Exile 3 had a fast travel system of sorts, using Ernest's portal system which I seem to remember as being pretty easy to get to. It would have been really, really nice to be able to quickly get around, even if it was just between major cities. Lategame, I'd started several major quests and had to just run around, ignoring low-level encounters and mostly worthless shops as I went. The lack of fast travel made alchemy feel worthless, and I kinda regretted taking it on my mage. Combat's good until you start fighting slews of spellcasters during every battle, because something's seriously wrong with their AI. Any time there's a single spellcaster to be fought, I just did it without going into combat mode so I could kill them while they spammed Haste and Slow on themselves/my party without actually harming me. It stops them from running, and most damage they'd actually do can be tanked with Heals. Later on it got even worse. I've got a save outside of one of the final boss rooms and each round in there takes 2-3 minutes since everything in there's got to cast Summon Aid/Slow/Haste multiple times per turn, regardless of enemy slow status/their haste status/summon aid being completely worthless at this point as anything but an annoyance. Giants are fun to fight and challenging. Golems are fun to fight, but their complete immunity to most useful offensive magic's sort of cheap and I'm definitely going to put points into Thrown Weapon on my mage in A2. Black Shades/Guardians are a cheap trick. The spellbook's been absolutely neutered since Blades of Exile, which the game's code is based off of. I understand getting rid of a lot of the spells like Minor Manna, Scare, and Spray Fields, but there's a lot of really amazing spells that're completely gone that I miss. Beast Ceremony's a terrible, watered down Major Blessing with a pointless restriction that only exists to hamstring attempts to stop every major spellcaster in the game from casting Slow twice a round. Priest stuff's significantly better than I was expecting after the early game stuff. Smite was really, really bad, but Repel Spirit's higher levels are absolutely must-haves and there wasn't a single battle in the game where I didn't cast a few Mass Heals. I do miss Exile's priestbook, though. There's also a pretty major bug with the fight/end mechanic that allows you to get Motrax's hoard (which I've seen people post about) and also Athron's (which I haven't). This allows you to skip any ground-based trap, any random event that doesn't block you in some way, and it can let you skip the drain in the Tower of the Magi. I don't regret playing through as far as I have, but I figured it'd be worth talking about what I've experienced.
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This procedure works well. Installing Windows 3.1 on DOSBox.
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Thanks so much for your help micawber! Yeah I actually prefer Exile 3 over Avernum 3, just personal preference and nostalgia. I noticed the name was edited. I'll try Dosbox and VirtualBox! Cheers!
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Original Exile not responding to numpad movement
Milon replied to promethean's topic in Tech Support
I've ran into this issue myself. I find that once DosBox is running, I just need to turn Num Lock off then on and it'll work fine. Hope that helps! -
Original Exile not responding to numpad movement
Harehunter replied to promethean's topic in Tech Support
DOSBOX is very particular about focusing on the proper window. I just fired up my DOSBOX load, started Window 3.1, launched Exile. When I tried the numeric keypad to move aroung, ...nothing... Then I clicked on the DOSBOX window itself, tried again and, voila!, it works. Just remember, for DOSBOX to work properly, regardless the program, you have to click the mouse into the DOSBox screen itself. Note that Alt-TAB will not take you to an application outside of DOSBox; you must move the mouse pointer outside of DOSBox, and click back into the OS environment. Edit: Correction; you have to click on the Exile application within the Windows application. In short, you are dealing with another layer of environment; the OS, the DOSBox, the Win3.1, the Exile. Each level of environment, while spawned from the parent and shares only what the parent process passes down, is a separate entity of its own. -
Yeah, using DOSBox definitely has the potential to do this. I think DOSBox might have a Num Lock function that is NOT accessed by pressing Num Lock on your keyboard. Any changes you make to this will need to be done through DOSBox and not through Exile. It's a shareware Mac game from 1994; it doesn't have any kind of keymap function.
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Original Exile not responding to numpad movement
promethean replied to promethean's topic in Tech Support
Thanks for confirming that it is a working feature. There seems to be something about the dosbox implementation I'm using that's stopping the numpad form working, or numlock. Is there a file in Exile that can be changed to remap what keys it will respond to for movement? -
I, for one, would never have thought about using Dosbox on a mobile computer. It's not that I don't know about Dosbox, it's that I would have never thought of using it on something other than a desktop computer. So, thanks! Something to think about if I ever get a Kindle/tablet/whatever.
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Not quite the same: Android is a new(ish) platform, and dosbox on android is something of an unknown, new itself in terms of support & stability. So, if this is at all like your linux/wine comparison, it is like when Wine was still new & unknown, and someone came a long and said, "Hey, I figured out that we Linus folks can run Baldur's Gate!" Yes, it is obvious to anyone familiar with the state of those tools as they exist now that it could be possible, but it was not obvious in the case of Spiderweb games on android via dosbox. Or let me rephrase that: It was not obvious to me, and after a fair amount of effort, it turns out that it is in fact not possible for some games, not at this moment on the current crop of Android hardware & dosbox software. Speed & Stability are still major issues on Android for any Spiderweb game beyond the Exile series. And, should you find yourself thinking, "Yes, but even that was fairly clear to me." Consider this: It was not clear to me, and there may be others to whom it was not that bennefit from this.
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It's the same as saying that you can run all Spiderweb games on Linux using Dosbox or/and Wine. Sure, they would run - but that doesn't make them a Linux games and most Linux users won't pay for them. On that note, we LOVE to support those who support our OS, I bought many games that I didn't play (more then an hour) just to support the developers.
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Oh, regarding keyboard issues, the Hacker's Keyboard (available in the android marketplace) offers a much more fully-featured keyboard w/ function, cursor arrows, and numbers pad options. This has made many otherwise unplayable dosbox games quite enjoyable.
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This isn't a lame misleading post about how you can actually kind of sort of play games through something like RDP or Logmein or VNC. This is actually running a few of the older Spiderweb games, on your Android. The playable are are all of the original Exile series, including Blades. Here's how: First, this was all done on the Kindle Fire, so you're mileage may vary, but as Android hardware goes it's fairly middle of the road, nothing too cutting edge, so most higher end phones and any of the major tablets should work about as well. My recommendation is for a tablet, but if you can manage to enjoy playing on the smaller screens too, well, good on you. What you'll need: 1. Dosbox on PC. You'll do your setup here, for no other reason than I assume your PC is faster than your Android device. There's no reason you couldn't otherwise do it all native in Android. 2. Windows 3.11 install disk images. Dig out your closets and raid the garage, we're going old school. You'll be playing Exile on windows 3.11 on dosbox on android. I've read SciFi novels (Rainbow's End) which predicted this type of embedded recursive emulation and thought, "Why wouldn't they just use all their technology to find an easier way?" Well, the future's here, and it's just as kludgy as predicted, but in this case it works, and it works really well. There is no significant lag, stuttering, sound artifacts, or anything. 3. Prepare an empty directory to install win311 into, boot up DosBox, mount the install media in one virtual drive and you directory on the C:\ drive, keep ALL of the default drivers and settings the installer recommends, and let loose on the nostalgia because here comes the only decently stable consumer Windows system until XP hit the shelves. 4. Visit this page for links to a few necessary drivers and other useful goodies. In particular, I recommend the S3 video drivers and the SoundBlaster audio drivers. Everything else is unnecessary, but if you want to do anything else in the win 3.11 environment, I recommend Win32S for some basic 32-bit support and WinG for some basic pre-DirectX support: http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=9405 5. On Android you need DosBox Turbo. I tried aDosBox, which is free, but it significantly under performs compared to Turbo and was too slow to be usable. anDosBox is another choice, and their speed is probably about the same as Turbo, but it's interface is not as friendly or configurable. 6. Assuming your Win311 is complete, just transfer that whole directory structure over to your Android device to wherever you choose to run things from. 7. Last, make sure your dosbox.conf is properly attuned to your win311 install. I have removed all the comment lines (for space) from my own and pasted it below as an example. It mounts an additional directory to the D:, but that is not really necessary if you don't want that. Otherwise, it allows you to easily access anything on your device. Beware though: Windows 3.11 didn't have much in the way of file protections to prevent accidental mishaps with your file structure, and it was not uncommon for poorly written programs to ruin or even delete entire disk volumes. So, some sandboxing is prudent. 8. That's it, you're ready to go! Download the demos of any of the Exile series, install, realize they're awesome, and purchase full copies! LAST: You'll be tempted, as I was, to reach too far. To want the Exile remakes, Nethergate, maybe a Geneforge. Near as I can tell, it's simply impossible in 3.11 unless you want to rewrite drivers and perhaps additional work as well. They really seem to require a real version of DirectX, WinG is not enough, and that means Win95. Win95 will run, and run decently, at least on the Kindle Fire. But I spent days tracking down fixes for problems, and while the ultimate result was a usable Win95 system w/ basic DirectX 1 support (yes, version 1 only: 2 & 3 made things unstable) the result was still that Nethergate & Geneforge ran too slow to be at all playable, as in 10 second to move space, and Avernum wouldn't start at all. Good luck! Example dosbox.conf: [sdl] fullscreen=true fulldouble=false fullresolution=original windowresolution=original output=overlay autolock=true sensitivity=100 waitonerror=true priority=higher,normal mapperfile=mapper.txt usescancodes=true [dosbox] language= machine=svga_s3 captures=capture memsize=63 [render] frameskip=0 aspect=false scaler=normal2x [cpu] core=auto cycles=max cycleup=500 cycledown=20 [mixer] nosound=false rate=22050 blocksize=2048 prebuffer=10 [midi] mpu401=intelligent device=default config= [sblaster] sbtype=sb16 sbbase=220 irq=5 dma=1 hdma=5 mixer=true oplmode=auto oplrate=22050 [gus] [speaker] pcspeaker=true pcrate=22050 tandy=auto tandyrate=22050 disney=true [joystick] [serial] [dos] xms=true ems=true umb=true keyboardlayout=none [autoexec] mount d ./sdcard/ mount c ./sdcard/dbgames/win31/ c: cd windows echo type win then return to start
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This isn't a lame misleading post about how you can actually kind of sort of play games through something like RDP or Logmein or VNC. This is actually running a few of the older Spiderweb games, on your Android. The playable are are all of the original Exile series, including Blades. Here's how: First, this was all done on the Kindle Fire, so you're mileage may vary, but as Android hardware goes it's fairly middle of the road, nothing too cutting edge, so most higher end phones and any of the major tablets should work about as well. My recommendation is for a tablet, but if you can manage to enjoy playing on the smaller screens too, well, good on you. What you'll need: 1. Dosbox on PC. You'll do your setup here, for no other reason than I assume your PC is faster than your Android device. There's no reason you couldn't otherwise do it all native in Android. 2. Windows 3.11 install disk images. Dig out your closets and raid the garage, we're going old school. You'll be playing Exile on windows 3.11 on dosbox on android. I've read SciFi novels (Rainbow's End) which predicted this type of embedded recursive emulation and thought, "Why wouldn't they just use all their technology to find an easier way?" Well, the future's here, and it's just as kludgy as predicted, but in this case it works, and it works really well. There is no significant lag, stuttering, sound artifacts, or anything. 3. Prepare an empty directory to install win311 into, boot up DosBox, mount the install media in one virtual drive and you directory on the C:\ drive, keep ALL of the default drivers and settings the installer recommends, and let loose on the nostalgia because here comes the only decently stable consumer Windows system until XP hit the shelves. 4. Visit this page for links to a few necessary drivers and other useful goodies. In particular, I recommend the S3 video drivers and the SoundBlaster audio drivers. Everything else is unnecessary, but if you want to do anything else in the win 3.11 environment, I recommend Win32S for some basic 32-bit support and WinG for some basic pre-DirectX support: http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=9405 5. On Android you need DosBox Turbo. I tried aDosBox, which is free, but it significantly under performs compared to Turbo and was too slow to be usable. anDosBox is another choice, and their speed is probably about the same as Turbo, but it's interface is not as friendly or configurable. 6. Assuming your Win311 is complete, just transfer that whole directory structure over to your Android device to wherever you choose to run things from. 7. Last, make sure your dosbox.conf is properly attuned to your win311 install. I have removed all the comment lines (for space) from my own and pasted it below as an example. It mounts an additional directory to the D:, but that is not really necessary if you don't want that. Otherwise, it allows you to easily access anything on your device. Beware though: Windows 3.11 didn't have much in the way of file protections to prevent accidental mishaps with your file structure, and it was not uncommon for poorly written programs to ruin or even delete entire disk volumes. So, some sandboxing is prudent. 8. That's it, you're ready to go! Download the demos of any of the Exile series, install, realize they're awesome, and purchase full copies! LAST: You'll be tempted, as I was, to reach too far. To want the Exile remakes, Nethergate, maybe a Geneforge. Near as I can tell, it's simply impossible in 3.11 unless you want to rewrite drivers and perhaps additional work as well. They really seem to require a real version of DirectX, WinG is not enough, and that means Win95. Win95 will run, and run decently, at least on the Kindle Fire. But I spent days tracking down fixes for problems, and while the ultimate result was a usable Win95 system w/ basic DirectX 1 support (yes, version 1 only: 2 & 3 made things unstable) the result was still that Nethergate & Geneforge ran too slow to be at all playable, as in 10 second to move space, and Avernum wouldn't start at all. Good luck! Example dosbox.conf: [sdl] fullscreen=true fulldouble=false fullresolution=original windowresolution=original output=overlay autolock=true sensitivity=100 waitonerror=true priority=higher,normal mapperfile=mapper.txt usescancodes=true [dosbox] language= machine=svga_s3 captures=capture memsize=63 [render] frameskip=0 aspect=false scaler=normal2x [cpu] core=auto cycles=max cycleup=500 cycledown=20 [mixer] nosound=false rate=22050 blocksize=2048 prebuffer=10 [midi] mpu401=intelligent device=default config= [sblaster] sbtype=sb16 sbbase=220 irq=5 dma=1 hdma=5 mixer=true oplmode=auto oplrate=22050 [gus] [speaker] pcspeaker=true pcrate=22050 tandy=auto tandyrate=22050 disney=true [joystick] [serial] [dos] xms=true ems=true umb=true keyboardlayout=none [autoexec] mount d ./sdcard/ mount c ./sdcard/dbgames/win31/ c: cd windows echo type win then return to start
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From a discussion on installing it for Windows XP I (Harehunter) have actually installed Windows 3.1 on DOSBox .74 and installed all the Exiles to the Win3.1 Installation instructions.
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I have gotten it work in DOSBox, but you have to install either Windows 3.1 or Windows 98 within the DOSBox shell. I have done the Win3.1 install, so I know it works. I have not tried the Win98 yet, but supposedly it works OK. Once you have that installed, install the game and get it registered. Make a backup copy of the entire directory. You can then move the game into another directory, or re-install it from the backup if needed. At this point you can either play the game in DOSBOX mode, or you can create a shortcut to it and set your compatibility mode there. One caveat; it does require a 16/32-bit OS. XP-32bit works fine, but any 64bit OS will do 32-bit apps, but not 16-bit.
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I am using Windows XP and never have any problems with any Exile game. DosBox does not work, does it work for early 90s games? Does your (64 bit?) machine run anything on DosBox?
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Any chance of working on 64-bit XP (SP3)?
Harehunter replied to Kyronea's topic in The Exile Trilogy
Just to see if I could get it to work. It does take a little bit of holding your mouth just right to install Win3.1 in DOSBox, but the trick is digging up those old drivers for sound and mouse. I would be very interested to find out if it actually worked on a 64-bit machine. -
Originally Posted By: Harehunter I don't know how it works on 64-bit, but I did get a very successful load of Windows 3.1 on DOSBox on a couple of 32-bit winxp's, and all three Exiles copied into into it and they run just fine. Actually, after installing it on one box, I copied the whole shebang onto a flash drive, plugged into another box, and ran directly off the flash. The cursor has a bit of an annoying habit of disappearing when you move it, but settles in nicely when you stop. That is the only annoyance I have noticed. I have yet to work up the time and ambition for a Win98 load. It might work better, but on the other hand, it might work worse. On 32-bit XP, the Exile games run natively if you put them in compatibility mode. Why were you even using DOSBox?
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Any chance of working on 64-bit XP (SP3)?
Harehunter replied to Kyronea's topic in The Exile Trilogy
I don't know how it works on 64-bit, but I did get a very successful load of Windows 3.1 on DOSBox on a couple of 32-bit winxp's, and all three Exiles copied into into it and they run just fine. Actually, after installing it on one box, I copied the whole shebang onto a flash drive, plugged into another box, and ran directly off the flash. The cursor has a bit of an annoying habit of disappearing when you move it, but settles in nicely when you stop. That is the only annoyance I have noticed. I have yet to work up the time and ambition for a Win98 load. It might work better, but on the other hand, it might work worse. -
Any chance of working on 64-bit XP (SP3)?
Emmisary of Immanence replied to Kyronea's topic in The Exile Trilogy
I have limited DOSBox experience. I don't think Steam is your ticket, though. Old games on Steam are usually updated and re-released. If the game won't run, Steam won't make it run. —Alorael, who really would give DOSBox and VirtualBox chances. They have fairly helpful communities even if your technical understanding is nil. -
Any chance of working on 64-bit XP (SP3)?
Harehunter replied to Kyronea's topic in The Exile Trilogy
I see what you mean. I just had not paid that close attention to it. I've tried turning up the mouse tracking parameter in the Windows 3.1 setup, but to no good effect. There are tunable parameters in the DOSBox.conf file. I'll do some research on those. You might do the same. This setup of Windows may be stretching the limits in DOSBox. -
No I know about all that, to be more specific, lets say you're playing E2 and you start a new game, when the pop up with the intro story appears if I move my mouse around inside the pop up only, it will disappear (almost flash) and then reappear when stop moving the mouse. Outside of that window (still within the main screen, and Dosbox) it works just fine. It only occurs with story pop ups, character editor, talking to people etc... Not sure if anyone has a hot clue what I mean, not too sure how to explain it....
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Any chance of working on 64-bit XP (SP3)?
Harehunter replied to Kyronea's topic in The Exile Trilogy
You have to click your mouse into the DOSBox environment. Once there you have too scroll around to find your mouse cursor. It won't be where you clicked, it will be where you left it last when you left DOSBox, or in some default location. Once your mouse is in the DOSBox, you cannot move it outside the Box. You have to Alt-Tab to an application in your XP environment to get out. I hope this makes sense. -
The DOSBox solution works great. Here's how. There is also a way to install Win95/Win98 on DOSBox, but I haven't tried it.
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Exile was written back in the days of Windows 3 so you just haven't set your computer right. Try using DOSBox.
