Brocktree

Originally Posted By: Cynara Maybe I'm missing something, but why would I want to buy weapon skills for my spellcasters? Apart from a few in bows/thrown perhaps. To access battle disciplines. The battle disciplines which stun/curse/weaken/boost damage all apply to spells. Quote: Blademaster requires putting points in two different melee weapons skills, which seems a bit wasteful if a fighter just sticks to one. Is it really worth the investment, or is Elite Warrior enough? If you choose Divine Warrior and Elite Warrior, you don't really need to unlock Blademaster. If you only choose Elite Warrior, then yes, unlock Blademaster. Having a high Blademaster is one of the few benefits of a warrior, as it allows you to utilise battle disciplines more often. Quote: Anatomy sounds more useful for a melee weapon specialist, even with the two mostly unuseful increases to Intelligence (but not all fighters need to be big dumb stupidheads, right?). Anatomy is quite expensive, and does not to seem to add a full level of damage when you invest a point in it. Quote: A little confused about the effects of Quick Action vs. Quick Strike, Quick Action increases your chance of getting a second strike in the same attack. Quick Strike gives you the chance of receiving up to two extra action points a round. Quote: Bows/Thrown vs. Sharpshooter, Equivalent. Quote: and Magery vs. Spellcraft. Equivalent. Quote: and is QA/QS worth investing in? Both are worth investing in for warriors, but don't expect miracles from QA. At 10 points, you will be getting a double attack 25% of the time. To reliably get 2 AP from QS, you will need to invest at least 10 points, and then get a remaining 8-10 from equipment/training. Quote: Part of me still wants to have two mage/priests, maybe I can fudge something up by dropping Magical Efficiency... The only problem with mage/priests is that their skill points will be stretched very thin. In most Spiderweb games, you succeed through specialisation, not via scattering your skill points around.

Originally Posted By: Cynara Okay, now assume all characters build Endurance to at least 6, get Arcane Lore 4, Nature Lore 4, First Aid 4, and Luck 1 (cause they gotta have *some* luck!). That's 44 points. Due to the multiplicative nature of Avernum's armour system, luck is one of those skills that you shouldn't place any points in unless you are prepared to invest in it heavily. +4% to resist all essentially translates to 0% to resist all once you are geared up in plate armour. Quote: I figured I could build up to either Riposte or to Lethal Blow on my fighters, but the numbers on either are... kinda crazy! Oh god, don't bother with Lethal Blow, you'll blow all your skill points to unlock the skill, and have no points left to invest in it. Lethal blow is OK, but not worth sacrificing all of your skill points for. You can gain an appreciable number of points in Lethal Blow from training/items anyway. Quote: Unlocking access to Riposte requires 206 points. I wouldn't worry about Riposte either, it's good, but not worth bending over backwards to get. Just max out parry and be happy with the 50% to block. The points spent to open riposte are better invested in hardiness/endurance/quick strike. Quote: For spellcasters, unlocking Magical Efficiency requires 130 points for priests and 136 for mages. Again, don't bother. Just crank up magery/spellcraft. Quote: I have the feeling my numbers are way off. They aren't. It's just a sad fact of Avernum 5 that you need to blow all of your skill points on barely relevant base skills to unlock the marginally useful upper tier skills, only to realise that you have no skill points left to invest in them. This was fixed in Avernum 6. Originally Posted By: Randomizer One thing you can do is hold off on using skill points for arcane lore, nature lore, and spellcraft. No! Don't hold off on arcane lore and nature lore. Money is scarce in Avernum 5, and by the end you *still* won't have enough to purchase all the training and wisdom crystals/knowledge brews you would like. Only pay for skills you plan to invest a lot of points in (eg. magery/spellcraft), or ones which are good but you won't be unlocking (lethal blow, resistance). Added to which, it's a real pain in the rear to go back opening all the caches you've missed. Bite the bullet and drop skill points in skills which only require a small boost (first aid, nature lore, arcane lore, tool use), it will help you in the long run. By the way, some players advocate waiting to purchase weapon training for your spell-casters. Again, *don't*. It's a huge waste of gold to save a few skill points.

I've recently undertaken a playthrough of Avernum 5, which has given me the opportunity to clarify a number of thoughts I have held regarding the relative value of warriors. Mages. Mages have access to virtually every damage type (excluding physical and disruption), most at a multiplier much higher than the 2.5 multiplier offered by a pole weapon. Area of effect attacks hit multiple enemies, and ignore riposte. With a high mana pool, you can spam Arcane Blow for a reasonable period of time to lay on the hurt. The benefits of mages are so numerous, that warriors just seem to have little relative worth. Warriors can deal reasonable physical damage? Um, ok. Mages not only deal damage (in multiple damage forms!), but can terrify, daze, slow, protect, haste, and summon. Given the numerous benefits of mages, it almost seems like a no brainer to power through the game with a 3 mage/1 priest party, as has been advocated in the past. However, what I have noticed throughout my playthrough is that one also needs to consider the *skill point cost* of mages. Just investing in the bare minimum of mage spells and intelligence to cast an appreciable number of Arcane blows will take up over half the skill points available to you in the game. If you are creating a mage like character, you will have close to *no* skill points to spare on other ancillary skills, most notably parry, hardiness, and strength. The skills which make a decent meat shield. So my first observation is this: A decent mage, and a decent meat shield, are *mutually exclusive*. You cannot have a character which is both. Now let us consider physical damage. Almost every enemy in the game resists physical damage, but these resistances range from low to moderate. Alternatively, only some enemies have resistance to fire or energy (the mage's highest die damaging attacks). However, when they resist, they resist a lot, virtually nullifying the mage's primary attack. Yes, you can get by on archery for such enemies, but prepare for long drawn out teeth grinding fights. So my second observation is this: Having a source of appreciable physical damage is at best, invaluable, and at worst, useful. Finally, there are a lot of ancillary skills that you can purchase/obtain from items which scale up physical damage reasonably. However, one really sticks out. Quick strike. 50 skills points in quick strike, + 10 from items and training, + mercuric plate, will always allow for a third attack when hasted and battle raged. This is not achievable for mages, simply because of skill point deprivation. So, my third observation is this: When playing to a warrior's advantages, they can (and will) do the most damage to a single target. Now, the final question. Melee or pole? Popular opinion gravitates towards pole, simply because of the damage multiplier. However, is it possible that the bonuses from the assassin's shield and radiant blade outweigh the multiplier? To test this, I compare damage output for a slith and nephil who had been developed to level 24/25 (respectively) over the course of a game. They were virtually identical in all stats, except: - The bonus the nephil obtained from the radiant blade and assassin's shield - The pole bonus the slith gains for its level They wore no other equipment. My results? Slith - Average damage per round: 172 Nephil - Average damage per round: 121 Melee does 70% of the damage of pole. Ergo: Actual gameplay supports the math performed in the past. Those few points of lethal blow/qa/anatomy the nephil gains don't make much difference at higher levels. Pole just seems to blow melee out of the water. Or does it? Consider: Defensive bonuses. The shield provides a small defensive bonus. Radiant blade also gives 3 parry (translating into 9% to block melee, 6% to block missiles. On closer inspection, the armour bonus is neglible (due to the multiplicative nature of the armour system). And the skill point value of 3 points in parry is not equivalent to 50 damage (equating to *25* levels of damage for a meleer). As a side note, choose the Hero's necklace as your reward from Melachanion. Flaming sword. Yes, the flaming sword provides an alternative form of damage against physically resistant foes. On the surface, this hands an advantage to a character who invests in melee. However, on closer inspection, this advantage is *tiny*. Because there is absolutely nothing preventing a pole user from wielding the flaming sword effectively! The vast majority of your damage comes from blademaster/strength/ancillary skills, not the melee/pole skill. So, at worst, a pole user will be dealing 20 less damage with the flaming sword than a melee fighter. The quicksilver bulwark. This is probably the most convincing reason to invest in melee over pole. The quicksilver bulwark + mercuric plate + qs sandals means that you don't need to invest any points in quick strike. That's a saving of at least 50 points. However, there are numerous disadvantages on such a character - You have to kill Ruth to get those sandals, meaning you don't get all those cheap trained skills from Tholmen. - One of your mages misses out on three attacks per round, since the warrior 'hogs' the AP boosting items. As I mentioned earlier, mages will not be able to get enough quick strike to guarantee 3 strikes a round. - Finally, crunch the numbers with the values I obtained earlier. A nephil sword user with three attacks per round does 121 * 3 = 363 damage. A slith pole user with *two * attacks per round does 344 damage. Note that those damages are for 'naked' characters. I suspect that when equipped, the damage die would close the gap. So, you're sacrificing a mage with three attacks, and all those awesome cheap skills from Tholmen, so that a sword user gets the *same* damage as pole user. A pole user, with an investment of 50 points to get 20 quick strike (+ items and Tholmen's training), can reach 516 damage a round. Final observation: Swords do indeed suck in Avernum 5. Conclusion: A slith pole user makes a welcome addition to a party with a priest and two mages. This is borne out by my gameplay experience.

Originally Posted By: Death Knight Alright here are the stats- Strength, Dex, Intelligence and Endurance are set at 4 Why is your intelligence so low? What makes agents so powerful in Geneforge 1 is their ability to spam searing orbs. Without a high intelligence (and therefore energy), you have essentially castrated your agent. Quote: Melee is 6 and missiles is at 2 There is no need to invest in melee. Searing orbs is much more effective. Quote: 9 in battle magic, 2 mental magic, 3 in blessings Pump up mental magic so that you can use terror and dominate. Quote: 2 in battle shaping Battle shaping sucks. Make a couple of cryoas, if you have the essence to spare. Quote: 5 in leadership and 5 in mechanics with 16 in luck giving me 49 armor, 90 essence, and 76 health at lvl 14. 16 luck?! Why on earth did you pump luck so high? Agents require several things to be powerful: - High energy/essence - Searing orbs - Haste - Terror and dominate - A couple of drayks

Originally Posted By: Alex Has anyone else observed something like this? A brief look at the scripts shows that the rebel classes are the ones defined for player characters, whereas the only entry for a generic Shaper has 50% resistance to fire and cold. I can confirm it. All I can say is, wow. Geneforge 5 has been out for years, and no one has ever noticed that the Shaper classes receive such huge resistance values. Congratulations on discovering this. I think veterans might have to revise their statement that the Shaper classes are inferior to the Rebel classes.

Originally Posted By: khelvan Is there a combat statistics area/screen that I am missing, somewhere? Thanks! No.

In Avernum 5, I've noticed that PCs with very high resistances get a 'X shakes off weakening effect' when someone attempts to curse/weaken them. Does anyone know exactly what resistance dictates whether the PC manages to shake off negative effects? Edit: PCs can also resist curse and slow. I'm starting to think that this may be related to energy resistance, although this has not been confirmed. Edit 2: It appears to be a function of hardiness and resistance. Each point of hardiness/resistance appears to contribute 1% to spell resistance (which is distinct from energy resistance).

Originally Posted By: Five aces in the hole Right. You can't buff without damaging yourself. The only time it's useful is when you're facing someone who's throwing lots of spells at you and you want to force your enemies to take damage in reaching you. How often is that? Basically never. Huh? Almost every outdoor encounter in Exile 2 is like that (Bladesmen/Dervishes + Empire Archers + Wizards/Mages). Protective Circle could prove invaluable with careful party placement and stacks of razordisks or arrows. Position your PC's around the caster, then fire off a protective circle to protect them against magic. Then pick off all the troops at your leisure. Judicious use of poisoned arrows might also help. If your priest is in the thick of it, it could be handy to shoot off a protective circle as well. This is all theoretical, of course.

Originally Posted By: AndyLandy Dual-wielding one-handed edged weapons really is the bees knees. A pair of flaming damage steel waveblades is awesome. I'm even luckier that I have a bugged version of Exile II where magic waveblades don't actually have the 'magic' bit set. Sure, it's cheating, but I do love augmenting those badboys! :-) The only magic wave blade I have been able to augment is the one you pinch from the Crystal Soul you have you pay tribute to in Chapter 2. Quote: Oh, does anyone know if flaming damage stacks with assassination? You only get one 'spark damage', but I'm not sure if the two effects stack or not. Unfortunately it doesn't. If you assassinate, the flaming damage is ignored. This raises questions as to whether one would be better off with a magic weapon later in the game, as assassination tends to kick in about 60% of the time when you pump that skill. Quote: If not, you probably want to get +3 enchantment instead. (Anyone remember where you get this in E2?) The max you can get is +2, from Camp Samuels. Still, that would give Loki's broadsword a whopping 9 bonus.

Pestilence is useless in open combat, for the reasons you stated. But it is invaluable in towns, where you can wipe out hordes of enemies before they have even noticed you. Given that it only costs 6 spell points, I think that is a bargain. Shockwave is useless, given that it injures your own party members, and is superceded by level 5 damage spells (firestorm).

Pestilence seems to be overlooked here. I find Pestilence to be an excellent spell for thinning crowds before they see me, as it can pass through walls. A single casting of Pestilence can wipe out champions, mages, and priests. Multiple castings will take down wizards and high priests. That's much better than shockwave.

Roughly two months after getting burnt out on Exile 2, I reloaded my save game. I was pleasantly surprised to realise that I had managed to snag the Orb of Thranli just before rage-quitting, so I decided to continue the game. Somewhere within the first few hours, I made some sort of quantum leap. Perhaps it was obtaining Major Blessing. Or dual wielding steel wave blades enhanced with flaming enchantments. Either way, I've been cleaving my way through the game, and having a blast. I scoured the Empire archives for the location of the Great Portal. Sulfras was released from her (his?) bonds to wreak vengeance on her (his?) captors, and granted me the Onyx sceptre as a reward. Then I infiltrated deep into Empire held lands and took down the portal. I have to admit, it is rather exciting to sneak behind enemy lines and deal the Empire a number of decisive blows. The trick is to only tackle an enemy fortress when you are powerful enough to blow through it once, without needing to return. As I observed in my opening post, enemies respawn if you leave town and rest, so it's crucial that you get what you want from a hostile town in one go, otherwise you're in for a lot of grinding. Enemies constantly reappear in encampments, which means that not only do you need to hit a fortress once, you need to smash through it quickly, otherwise you'll exhaust your mana and get borne down by hordes of enemies. Then you'll have to retreat, rest, and fight the same enemies all over again. Ugh. Reappearing enemies add time pressure and a sense of urgency, and actually make you feel as though you are in a hostile area. So I've changed my opinion on the respawning monsters. They aren't there for grinding. They are there to motivate you get your ass in, and out, of enemy lines as soon as possible. My problem was that I was taking on the major fortresses a little too early. I should have got Major Blessing + dual wielded flaming waveblades first. I also managed to retrieve all three Crystal souls. Ahkronath (sp?) is a particularly memorable dungeon, in that you don't fight hordes of monsters. What I particularly like about Exile 2 is how although the game is non-linear, most quests and major plot points all lead up to a final showdown with Garzhad. Despite the vast expanse of Exile, everything ties together nicely. I still stand by some of my earlier complaints, though. This game sorely needed beta testers. I'm picking up a lot of basic errors throughout my playthrough (mostly spelling, grammatical, and incorrect nodes), and this does break my immersion somewhat. I wish the game screen was bigger (even though this wasn't possible with the PC port). Some of the spells are horridly unbalanced, with Major Blessing and Revive All only costing 8 mana points, although to be fair, these overpowered spells make the game playable. In summary, once you get into the swing of things and can kill monsters at record speed, the game goes from being a grind to a pleasurable experience. I'll break from my review now to make an observation or two regarding augmentation. I've read that the Nether Greatsword can be augmented. This is not correct. However, the Loki Broadsword (Damage 9, Bonus 7, defense 1) can be, if it is uncursed first. This means that you can have Damage 9+7, defense 1, and a flaming enchantment. The problem? An encumbrance of five, which effectively drops your AP by 2 and prevents you from casting mage spells. The mithral shortword (Damage 6 + 5) and dragon tooth knife (Damage 4 + 5) can also be augmented. Few other exceptional items can. Magic waveblades cannot be augmented, *except* for the one you steal from that crystal soul from Chapter 2. I'd also just like to remark that 'always poisoned' weapons are a misnomer. They aren't always poisoned. However, they are highly overrated. The poison damage they inflict is trivial, slow acting, and superceded by flaming damage. If you need good poison damage, just apply Killer poison to a blade, which can be bought in Dharmon. In fact, come to think of it, all weapons except for dual wielded blades are cack. Maces are laughable, and halberds, while good, just can't compete with double assassination/flaming + poison. I suspect that I'm simplying repeating what many other Exile veterans have stated in the past, though.

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES Originally Posted By: Brocktree I have no problem with the graphics. What I do find annoying is the GUI. Why the hell does the actual game screen only occupy half of the screen, and the world screen cover 1/4? When you have a whole screen to work with, why not use it, instead of producing a GUI that causes eye strain? Because at the time, standard screen resolution for Macs was 640 x 480, and Macs with smaller screens were still around. So it did occupy most of the screen. Your monitor has just grown. A lot. Why wasn't this changed for the PC version?

Originally Posted By: S M Adventurer Exile was one of my first RPGs I ever played too. I also found it annoying that monsters regenerate everywhere in the Exile trilogy, but there is an advantage to that. You can farm practically all the gold, equipment drops, and experience you want out of the regenerating monsters. Although it's still annoying if they regenerate and you are really battered from a fight with other monsters. I can give myself equipment and gold via the character editor, rather than waste time grinding the same enemies over and over. Ideally, equipment and gold should be a reward for exploration, not doing the same boring schlock over and over. Quote: The Avernum games were a pretty nice conversion from Exile. Exile had respawning monsters, and was therefore a grind. A4 had innumerable generic monsters, and was therefore a grind. A5 had too many subbosses with 1000+ hitpoints, and was therefore a grind. A2 and A3 were perhaps the best conversions. Quote: Still, you probably should give Exile 2 another chance. Nah.

A couple of months ago, I did a quick review of Nethergate: Original. Exile was one of my first RPGs, and therefore the trilogy has lots of nostalgia value for me. I managed (with much persistence) to complete Exile 3, but never the previous 2. I have blitzed my way through all three Avernums multiple times. For the last couple of weeks, I've been investing time in Exile 2, attempting to finish what I started 10+ years ago. After sinking many hours into Exile 2, all I can say is that I can see why I finally tired of it. Avernum 5 is considered a grind by many. But at least when you kill an enemy in A5, it stays *dead*. In Exile 2, enemies continue to respawn *everywhere*. Wandering monsters pop up all over the outdoors, and new monsters are generated indoors. Even worse, all the enemies on a level respawn when you navigate between levels. Having to kill the same exact set of enemies again simply to explore the last 1/5th area of a fortress is like having teeth pulled. I have no problem with the graphics. What I do find annoying is the GUI. Why the hell does the actual game screen only occupy half of the screen, and the world screen cover 1/4? When you have a whole screen to work with, why not use it, instead of producing a GUI that causes eye strain? I won't go too much into the game mechanics, since it's well known that they are easily exploitable. What annoys me is that the game is very rough in certain areas, as though it wasn't beta tested. For example, I've had nodes display the wrong dialogue, which is really jarring. I'm also a convert to the Avernum 1-3 spell system of upgrades. Yes, there are more spells in Exile. However, much like Baldur's Gate II, 3/4's of them are cack. In conclusion, thank god Jeff gave Exile a facelift with Avernum.

Originally Posted By: Anak I'm doing another play through of Exile 2 and there is one thing that has always bugged me. These items that even when identified only say their purpose is ???. What gives? Is there a list somewhere that explains exactly what these things do. Such as Wand of Vorb or Asp Gloves. Some items seem only to poison and disease your party. I've started one here: http://miscrpggames.weebly.com/exile-2-compendium-of-knowledge.html Here are some of the ??? items which have plagued Exile gamers in the past. Serpent Robes - Increases the level of poisoning a poisoned weapon inflicts by ONE (ie. the enemy is poisoned for an additional round, amounting to approximately 12 extra damage) Aspskin Gloves - Increases the level of poisoning a poisoned weapon inflicts by ONE. Note that the effects of the Serpent Robes and Aspskin gloves are NOT cumulative Asp Gloves - Infrequently poisons the wearer while in *combat mode* Amulet of the Cobra - Increases the level of poisoning a poisoned weapon inflicts by ONE. Note that the effects of the Serpent Robes and Aspskin gloves are NOT cumulative Amber Periapt - Reduces the levels of poisoning inflicted on the bearer. This is very hard to quantify. However, the reduction is levels is less than 50%, but large enough to render the bearer immune to poisoning from swamplands.

Originally Posted By: Paragon It doesn't seem like archery is worth very much. Sometimes it doesn't even hit, and then when does hit, the enemy is either undamaged or does little damage. The same thing goes for thrown missiles, not worth putting skill points into. Ranged weapons aren't very damaging vs melee because... 1. It's far easier to get your hands on a melee weapon with a hefty damage bonus, than a missile with a good damage bonus. For example, magic waveblades/broadswords are easy to find, and you can use them ad infinitum. Magic arrows (whose base damage and bonus is close to a magic wave blade) are rare, and are exhausted pretty quickly. 2. You don't get any strength bonus to damage for ranged attacks. There are a number of other considerations (eg. lack of assassination, no dual wielding, inability to poison missiles, inability to augment, etc). But the above two explain why you rarely do good damage with ranged attacks. Bows have two things going in their favour. Each shot only consumes 3 AP. And bows have a whopping 12 range. This is twice the range of a wound spell (Range = 6), and 1/3 more than a missile (range = 8) If you hoard magic arrows, give everyone a bow, and mass bless you might be able to wipe out a Rakshasha before it gets the chance to unleash any spells. In otherwords, bows should be an ancillary means of attack. Alternatively, you could just buy everyone a lot of magic darts from formello. The +5 damage bonus is enough to pick off any regular mages.

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES Nethergate wasn't "a breath of fresh air from the Exile series." There are some SW veterans who prefer the Nethergate engine to Exile's, but there are others of us who prefer Exile's engine just as strongly. I'm not claiming that one engine is better than another. I'm simply observing that the engine in Nethergate was innovative, and worked well. I respect creativity and the courage to go beyond your comfort zone, instead of simply sticking to what you already know. Although I understand why game designers would do this profit-wise.

Originally Posted By: Triumph I wish the original ran on my computer (given the purported inferiority of the remake, according to some on here)... Ah well. I tremendously enjoyed N: Resurrection; it is still my favorite SW game (of those limited number that I own, and it shares of many good qualities described in the original game. As Slarty pointed out, N:R is the better game. However, this is hardly a surprise, as it represents an upgrade to the original game. Jeff changed very little, IMHO. He merely made some modifications to the skill point system to balance it more fairly, ironed out some bugs, and added some additional content. Oh, and he made it so that the game occupied the entire screen, instead of 1/3rd, which makes it *much* easier on the eyes. Older Spiderweb veterans remember Nethergate: Original fondly because it was advanced *for its time*. It was a breath of fresh air from the Exile series. As I mentioned earlier, the Exile trilogy involved Jeff tweaking the Exile engine. Nethergate represented the leap to isometric graphics and a world outside of Exile, as well as a new skill system. Nethergate: Original was to Exile what Geneforge was to Avernum. Hell, Avernum owes much of what it is to N: O. Now N: R owes some of what it is to the Avernum engine. Heh. Nethergate: Resurrection is a better game that Nethergate: Original, sure. But I don't consider it innovative. It's really just a tweaking of N: O, with a small amount of additional content.

Eleven years after first completing Nethergate with both a Celt and Roman party, I have returned to it, once again completing it with a Roman party. When I think back to my early teens, I remember being impressed by this game. It came out soon after Exile 3, and was completing different from what I was expecting. The Exile trilogy reflected Jeff's (successful) attempts to refine the Exile engine. Nethergate was something totally different. It had a different setting, a smaller outdoors area, fewer towns, a different skill point system, a linear plot, and isometric graphics. I was impressed with Nethergate back then. Now that I'm older, I appreciate it far more. Jeff was really ambitious, he took the plunge and made something fresh and original, rather than a remake or sequel. I love how the setting draws loosely upon history and folklore, while having an element of creativity and vibrancy. I admire the linear storyline, and how the Celtic and Roman PC stories mesh together perfectly. The attention to detail in this game is exquisite, with dialogue changing as you progress through the storyline. Not only are the storylines for each side different, the Romans and Celts both play differently as well. I know that some people condemn the isometric graphics, but I find them appealing. They get the job done, that's for sure. The user interface is easy to navigate, and is not at all intrusive. Nethergate also has two elements which I think are lacking from later games. Firstly, the keyword talking system. I really miss hunting for the correct keyword, it's almost like we are spoon-fed with pre-written phrases these days. Secondly, magical items are actually very sparse in Nethergate. This reminds me of Exile 1, where it was also very difficult to obtain powerful magical items. It seems that later Spiderweb games shower you with unique items, which strangely enough, devalues them. Nethergate really is a gem, I honestly don't understand why it is not recognised as such.

Just a quick update. I've added a little more content to my webpage. Of import, I've concluded that Berserker rage would be of benefit on spellcasters, as they shouldn't be getting hit anyway. Also, I have confirmed that Fast on Feet *does* increase initiative, as stated by the in-game description. However, dexterity does *not* increase initiative. Weird. Experimentation has also revealed that Sylak's Enlightening Amber gives the PC holding it a +3 bonus to rune reading, potion making, and item lore. Sylak's etheral scalpel grants a +40% chance to heal with first aid. Miraculous revival is also completely broken. It cannot be targeted on dead characters, but only on living characters, who it 'revives' by reducing their health to 1. And expending a balm of life. Yippee.

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES Do you play with permadeath? In other words, if you die, do you trash any save you had and start over? Yes. Thankfully, most full party deaths occur early in the game. Later in the game, you are powerful enough to take a few hits on the chin, and also Raise Dead if you lose a few characters. Becca also provides very cheap resurrection. Yeah, you're going to blow through some coins, but that's what money is for. Up until that point, you need to play cautiously. I usually play on Normal Difficulty up until the first 1/10th of the game, simply because something like a giant lizard can rip through a character in one round, even when shielded. Quote: For example, in Exile/Avernum 2, there is a fort where you can have one PC lie on a stone slab; if you do, that PC is turned to dust with no warning. It is early in the game and reviving the PC may be difficult or impossible for the time being. Cheap deaths are relatively rare in Spiderweb games. And I think most gamers would have the common sense not to do such a thing, although I see nothing wrong with a save-reload out of curiosity. Sometimes you are hit with ridiculously hard battles early on (eg. The Fomorian guarded bridge). This is where fleeing is an excellent option. I think good strategical planning involves acknowledging when discretion is the better part of valour. Quote: The other thing is convenience. Even in Avernum 4-6, where death can be reversed simply by walking through a town gate, this comes into play: "Gosh, I can walk out of the dungeon, across two zones and all the way back to town, then leave town, cross two zones and come back here -- or I can just reload and do this fight without letting my PC die. Either way, the outcome is exactly the same -- why not save some time?" Anyway, I would argue that Save-and-Reload is very much expected by game designers these days. Games should be played for enjoyment. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no purist. I use the exitzone cheat in Geneforge to cut down on traveling time. I alter the difficulty in Avernum 5 and 6 to suit my needs. If Save-Reload (or even character editing) enhances the fun, then that's what should be done. Personally, I find a no-reload game more enjoyable, as it forces me to think through all my options and take calculated risks, instead of just 'saving-reloading' until I get the outcome I want. Role-playing games could be considered a gamble, IMHO. You and the enemy roll the die, which then determines the outcome. However, you can tilt the odds in your favour with tactical, strategical, and character building decisions. Compulsive save-reload removes the gamble element from the equation, and lessens the importance of the tactical, strategical and character building decisions. Why should I care about having a stock of Balm of Life potions, when I can just reload? Why should I care about fleeing a difficult battle, when I can just reload and avoid it (or continue playing it until the die roll in my favour)? Games, first and foremost, exist to entertain. If you're not having fun, then you're doing something wrong. However, I do take issue with people who complain about earlier Spiderweb games being easy. Of *course* they are easy, when you take advantage of game breaking exploits. Trust me, when you remove those exploits, then suddenly the game becomes a challenge, even on normal difficulty. As Jeff intended it to be. Edit: Just as an example. I've started up a Torment Roman party, and was ambushed near the entrance of the mines by four goblin warriors. I thought my party could handle them, but three party members were killed, although they took three goblin warriors with them. My mage character had to evade the remaining goblin, return with the papers to the Roman Fort, and then scavenge enough gold to raise my three dead characters. This challenge would have been avoided with a simple save-reload.

I do think that the Blessing Pool is a shameless exploit. Personally, I don't use it, which is why I would consider taking Rational Mind for warriors. But to put things in perspective. Wouldn't you consider Save and Reload to be the most shameless exploit in any role playing game? Save and Reload initially existed so that if you had to turn off your computer/console, you could resume where you left off. However, saving and reloading until you achieve a favourable dice roll/outcome is a huge exploit which the AI does not have in its favour. These days, I still save my games compulsively in case of a blue screen, but I only reload if I've turned off my computer. 'Easy' Spiderweb games (such as Nethergate: O and Avernum) become far more difficult when you play them fairly. You approach every potential battle carefully, fully rested. You exhaust your potions. You flee battles. You take advantage of Raise Dead. You actually purchase equipment early in the game to get damage reduction. Suddenly the game switches from optimizing to get the best end-game party, to making short term decisions to just stay alive. This is how such games are meant to be played, where every decision you make has consequences, and you can't just reload when you do something careless. It's far more challenging and exciting, IMHO. Save and Reload makes any game easy.

Hi all. I've uploaded the effects of the negative traits to my web page. http://miscrpggames.weebly.com As you can see, the most surprising results are for Cursed at Birth. The only negative aspect of Cursed at Birth that I could identify was a -10% to hit with weapons. There was NO evidence of reduced spell power, reduced damage input/output, or reduced resistances. That's not to say that there aren't any. It's possible that the effect of Cursed at Birth is so small, that I couldn't detect it with repeated testing of sample sizes of 30-50. I'd argue that if Cursed at Birth does have some sort of negative effect, it is so small as to not be significant in the game. Furthermore, my original hypothesis about sleep and charm resistance was incorrect. I pumped luck to 5 and 10, and found that Cursed at Birth continued to grant immunity to to Sleep and Charm. So Cursed at Birth is probably not granting immunity by pushing these resistance values into the negative integers. Beserker Rage is a mixed bag. It increases your damage by 3.5, but increases your damage taken by 5.5. This effect wears off by 25% for every several rounds. Strangely enough, Beserker Rage grants that character initiative (whereas Fast on Feet does not). Rational mind does *not* work for Potions of Knowledge. It does work for Strength Elixirs and Curing potions. In conclusion, if I wanted an optimal character, here are the traits I would select. Positive: Fast on Feet Negative: Cursed at Birth Frail Rational Mind (for warriors)?

Originally Posted By: Draloraelich Frail reduces damage? Is that a typo or a bug? Either way, that's not much of a penalty at all. A typo, sorry. It increases the damage from an episode of poisoning by 3. Toughness does the opposite (decreases by 3). By episode, I mean from the start of poisoning, until it wears off. So 3 damage over about 4 rounds. Quote: Rational mind looks like another bargain. Loss of scrolls and wands isn't bad. Potions are more of a problem, since casters are likely to use energy potions and healing potions, but for the huge experience bonus it's probably worthwhile. You'll be able to add enough extra energy by stats to get by. It's a bargain for warriors. I rarely use energy potions for druids, due to the long wait function, although having the opportunity to use energy potions is useful. Beast Elixirs are nice too. Hmm, I wonder if you can use Knowledge Brews? Quote: Hitting is rarely a problem. Getting hit is, and from what I can remember it's still fairly possible to avoid taking hits at the end of Nethergate. I never found Berserker, trait or skill, worthwhile. These days I rely on damage reduction, rather than hit evasion. That's what happens when you play more recent Spiderweb games. Quote: —Alorael, who still isn't sold on Cursed at Birth. Alertness works fine against sleep, charm isn't all that common, and the other downsides seem fairly bad. We don't know what the other downsides are, though. As shown by my testing, the descriptions for each trait can be vague (and sometimes downright misleading). If Cursed at Birth gives you a 10% penalty to resistances, which can be easily negated by a few points of luck, then it may be worth taking.