Death Knight

Originally Posted By: Randomizer Avernum 6 was designed to kill off as many NPCs as possible so there wouldn't be an Avernum 7. The old world was ending with a bang instead of a whimper. Avernum 4 would have been better if the newly introduced Darkside Loyalists had been the main villains causing disaster instead of a rehash of Avernum 3. I highly doubt that there wont be an Avernum 7-9. Jeff even made a comment about not ruling it out under A:EFTP. That basically means 7-9. Its his most popular series and i think that if he does make something, he should go the route of avernum 3 for something new.

Im currently stuck with my two characters that i made. Im taking a duo party of 2 ranged characters (no magic) through normal and everything has been going pretty good so far. I am now stuck on the area before the city where the assassins attack me with mages and melee fighters. Its a tough fight and the only problem with it is not the mage, but the melee guys. I kill the mage in the first or 2nd round. My 2 characters use first aid to the max to survive through encounters. MY nephil archer usually casts shieldbreaker which then allows my human throwing master to get a one hit ko with a well-aimed blow. Are there any tactics that i should use to overcome these guys. Melee seems to be the only area and even so its not really hard-but more mildly annoying. Are there any special attacks that help keep enemies at bay later on?

One cool bunch of perks i was hoping would be in, were ways to combat against dualwielding's awesomeness. They could do this with making sword and shield and even no shield/melee builds better. In baldurs gate 2, they had a weapon skill that caused better criticals called single weapon style. It was probably one of the only other choices you had as it was pretty viable, especially for rogues. Jeff could do something like this as there were people that never used a shield with a rapier (swashbucklers) Sword and shield can also have perks that enhance parry and riposte. That might be cool for a defensive aspect. This whole perk system is very interesting and I have high hopes for this game.

Originally Posted By: Attachment Disorder Actually, Avadon already favors ranged for both the blademaster and the shadowwalker. Mechanically, that's the best build. What would be better is a way to use either class as a melee or ranged build equally effectively. Yes, it would probably need a separate ranged tree, but it would also need to balance strength with dexterity. —Alorael, who doesn't think shadowwalkers need to be so Asian. If their razordisks were replaced with throwing knives and they didn't wear obvious ninja outfits, they could just as easily be called assassins or rogues and fit right in. I wasnt actually in favor of removing the SW or any of that. I just think that there needs to be a sole-focused ranged user class. Thats all.

I found that the classes in avadon were essentially all the same thing when it comes to the type of classes (which were 2). Blademaster and Shadowwalker were in the combat class category and Shaman and Sorceress were in magic class category. The reason that they were so like each other was how they were made-Both SW and BM get melee and missile capabilities though favoring melee a bit more. Both Sorc and Shaman get magic and ranged capabilities, though they favor magic more. Aside from that, there are minor things that each class can do and cant, but in reality-they play very similar to each other. The only games where they are completely different would be the geneforge series and nethergate. Celts play completely different to romans and geneforge is even more so of that. The way jeff is going to need to switch that up would be to adding an almost pure ranged combat class in avadon. If he did that, then i might give it a shot. Aside from that, the shadowwalker plays too similar to BM and i was very dissapointed. Im figuring that he can setup an ultra cool backstab like in bioware games. In the game-backstab was when you are next to an ally?? Made no sense. I found that the blademaster was the coolest character class in the game (which says alot cause i greatly favor the rogue type chars). You can use bows to a pretty good extent and can still melee. However, they still needed more ranged attacks. Jeff has got to add some kind of ranged warrior into avadon. Something with bows/Crossbows would be cool.

I wouldnt say that though. I actually think that jeff would have a better chance of implementing a monk type character in Avadon more than avernum. Avadon is more about crazy/awesome classes whereas avernum is about the group. I would not be surprised if avernum is passed up on the monk idea, only to be passed onto avadon. Besides, avadon has done 2 melee classes and 2 mage classes. The only other classes he could choose would be a "Dedicated" ranged archer class or a monk. I would prefer the dedicated ranged class tbh. When i say dedicated i mean called shot, precise shot, disabling shot, fire arrow. All that. Not just flurry ranged attacks like the bm and sw.

Even if it doesnt get put in, the perk system should get overhauled with possibilities. Its the fricken avernum trilogy were talking about here

There's almost always a character class in games like this that uses his kicks and punches to anihilate people. You dont have to believe me but people with enough skill in real life can punch and destroy steel.

Hey randomizer, would you happen to know if assassination works with fists in the original exile trilogy? Im pretty sure it does but havent confirmed it.

I was reading about perks on the main page and wondered what types would be cool to have in. The only ones we know of so far are backstab (self explanatory) and swordmage (not so much). I think that there should be a wide and large amount of perks that can cater to many aspects. -For example-Single weapon mastery-From day one, i have always wanted a single weapon user that doesnt wield a shield. This would be cool. -A monk type group of feats would be cool. -Poison should be brougt back from the exile series (if it hasnt already) Im hoping that this perk system that jeff is making will be more than meets the eye and affect how you play the game with different ways to go.

It might actually work better with the exile trilogy and boe. The reason is Fists actually work with assassination in the original trilogy, which is a major plus. That and fists can be buffed up through strength and dex. Even though you will max out at 20 quickly, you will get extra points to make him even stronger. That is, if i am correct and assassination works with fists.

Avernum 1 and 2 will be tough to try this. The problem with going with avernum 3 and boa is that i dont know how fists are done with strength and everything else with dies. Still BOA has one advantage that avernum 4,5, and 6 dont have-more skill points per level, plus less costly melee weapons to reach anatomy. Because of this, i am still unsure whether a5 or boa would work better with fists. I will need to find out a bit more.

Damn...that dog has got to be the freakiest animal i have ever seen. It almost looks like one of the imps that you fight in diablo 1

I am thinking of making a monk character in either of the avernum games. After thouykidides info on A1-2, I am thinking of making a 4 man party in which 1 char includes a monk. I am asking besides Avernum 1-3 (BOA) and A4-6, what would be a good game to utilize a monk character? Initially i thought A1-3, but then i remembered that in avernum 5-6, you get quick action, battle disciplines, and other benefits. Has anyone tried a monk in any of spiderwebs games. I would try in geneforge, but i doubt that would work as you are the only char. I think in all of the games fists are 1-3 damage. Any thoughts on the monk class?

A few more questions if you dont mind Thoukydides- 1-would you happen to know if anatomy works with fists as well in your testing? 2-And if your testing with anatomy affects blades of avernum similarly?

This is pretty cool! So fists are counted to hit by dex. That might make it possible to get through with a monk.

Originally Posted By: *i Death Knight -- I agree mostly, although I wouldn't go as strongly as you. When the setting is stated as easy, 95+% of users had better be able to beat the game. Can't account for everyone and all, but you should account for the vast majority. Now, on the other end, when the difficulty says "Torment", that's an entirely different thing. Barzahl -- Don't really agree that torment isn't playable, since we have people around here playing it and beating it. I would go so far as to say torment should not be beatable by everyone. The only reason i say that is because of this-I played and beat geneforge 1 on easy. I played half way through the game on normal until i couldnt go any further. I beat the game, though it was difficult. Spiderweb Software does make hard games, but they are not unplayable and can be beaten. All of this has to go with what is good for you, the player. People say that avadon is mostly easy, I find it to be hard while i find the exile and avernum originals more comprehendable. Because i am more accustomed to the old school games, i have more patience for them and thus more ideas to think of. Geneforge is fairly in the same boat, but keep in mind this is just me. What I dont like is Sigma-Teams games (Alien Shooter) being extremely difficult to the point where most people give up and dont get past them at level 4 of 15 (20% of game). Out of all the reviews i read on them, all reviewers agreed that most people wont get past easy or medium difficulties, and the chances on ANYONE getting past hard or very hard difficulties is more likely to be impossible. That, in my opinion, is when difficulty is too misleading.

facebook Hope this picture upload works.. Edit-I guess it did, cool. Im on the left, with the auburn hair and beard.

The problem i think with hard games is one thing-If you like the game, you're screwed if you cant beat it. If that is the case and you are not the only person that feels that way, then the game is imbalanced. For example, I just downloaded alien shooter 2. i play the game and its alot of fun because the controls are easy to master. However, its also extremely difficult to the point where i want to cut my throat. Im at the 4th level and not only is the game tough, but there ive checked on the message boards and almost no one can get past the 4th level on medium or easy. What that means is that the game is imbalanced and the creators made it with the mindset that everyone should play on easy, which is [censored]. If someone makes a game with the mindset that easy=hard, and medium=very hard, and the rest are even worse-they should refund every customer their money. If you think about it, its essentially deceit, deception and stealing at its best. If most people cant get past a quarter of the game, how arent you a thief. Some of these game makers really dont make any sense when it comes to making games. I cant begin to describe how frustrating it is when someone does that to their customers. Its f* up. Thats my 2 cents.

The point is still missed, if he was that much of a tough guy, he would have acted like screw you! to his lord. He wouldnt cry like a girl. With that much power, how can he be such a coward. If they did it right, he would act all haughty. You see personalities such as this dont make sense. If they were trying to make him have a split personality, then they would have made it work. In baldurs gate 1, xzar is a complete schizo right from the beginning, you can tell. In avadon, moritzkri is essentially a sloppy fool who happens to somehow be tough??? Hes a mage. I should be able to slam him with all my melee guys. Instead, he can take more hits than my whole group. I dont care how much magic he has, hes a mage. And mages are supposed to be annoying, deadly, but not tanks. It would have been different if he was redbeard, but hes not. Im getting ahead of myself. Here is a list of fights where you have to do x to get x 1) Redbeard, 2) The dragon that mindcontrols the soldiers 3) Moritzkri. 4) The beast 5) The zombies that heal themselves 6) The golem that can only be hurt when you disable the switch. Those are 6 fights I can think of before i quit 1 of which (redbeard), i didnt get up to but heard about. I cant stand fights where i cant go fight the boss my way. If the game is trying to tell me that i have to do or disable this to beat the boss, thats stupid. It reminds me of when i used to play zelda. its a great game, but when i have to follow a course, i will forget about it. The games that truly are fun to me are the ones where the boss is there, he or she is tough, find a way to take him down. I learn nothing about him or her and i have to find a way to beat him that works for me. Arcanum had it, so did geneforge 1. What i dont like is this-Put on a pot of water to make moritzkri cry (lowering his defenses) then attack from behind to get 1 hit in. Its just not fun. Avadon is still probably an ok game by most standards. I just cant play it because it is not fun for me as it reminds me of games i just talked about.

Originally Posted By: FnordCola What battles take 30 minutes in Avadon? I can think of two, Zephyrine and the 'beard. Admittedly, it is annoying as hell to lose those. But those are two battles out of hundreds, and both of them are optional. You act as if every fight, or even every boss, took half an hour. Quote: And on Torment, Avadon is DEFINITELY the most challenging game. Hmm. It's high on the list, but I still think I found G5 harder. Granted, I haven't beaten the aforementioned 'beard and Zephyrine yet, but per above they are optional, and I have difficulty believing that they're harder than some of the optional fights in G5. The Pairbond Constructs on torment do horrifying amounts of damage, and unlike enemies in torment Avadon, they also have substantially more HP than normal. A Half an hour is just putting it mildly. I really didnt want to give up on avadon but everything about it really didnt work for me. There are 3 specializations yet the middle is the only useful one, the characters made no sense, for example-the mage moritzkri acted scared to death when i confronted him in front of his ruler, yet he is extremely hard when i fight him at his base. The battles took way too long and followed the path of games like zelda-you do this to weaken the big boss this way, then you've got to do that so that he loses this. What happened to G1 when i can choose my way of fighting a boss and defeating him. There are npcs like bioware, but no actual difference between your character. You can create a character that is a blademaster and he will be no different than sevilin. I will say this though, the skills seemed fun and you could do a bit with each character-even though there isnt a dedicated ranged weapon user.

You are both forgeting that avadon is not your usual type of hard. Lets compare geneforge 1-5 with avadon 1. Geneforge, you do die quite a bit. However the difference is that you almost always die right away. You get 1 or 2 shotted and thats it. You reload-No problem. Now comparing avadon, you could be doing well in a battle, then mess something up, now your 30 minutes into that battle. You lose, and thats 30 minutes....gone. Geneforge is not like that, you get hit once by a beast, you die, rinse and repeat. Although it may technically be harder than avadon, avadon is far more annoying with how it plays out. I dont like or play games that i can really lose time bigtime when i lose. The same reason i dont play jagged alliance series. And you never know how many times it will take to complete. Its really just a waste of time.

Although people say that Avadon takes a short 20-25 hours to beat, I played it for 40 hours with little gained and gave up more than halfway due to frustration. I would recommend the geneforge series out of all. The original avernum 1 is lacking in story and doesnt compare to geneforge 1. Although the party aspect is better in avernum 1, Geneforge's story is by far the most unique. The second trilogy avernums are probably the most likely for you to like and get through. Play Avernum 4 (if it works), if not then avernum 5. Avernum 4 has a bad tendency to not work very well even with excellent specs. Avernum 5 is great, and Avernum 6 I have not played yet. Avadon is probably the least likely for you to enjoy. It really has nothing that the other games dont have better.

I think ive played spiderweb to death. Are there any other companies like spiderweb that offer a roleplaying experience that reads like a book. Ive heard of the krondor series but never played them. Are there any other (possibly indie) game companies that make games the way that jeff sort of does? Im not asking for much, although the high end specs and graphics i dislike. Ive played BG, IWD, PST and all the other greats, arcanum, etc. Ive played it. It kind of sucks that other game companies dont make games this way.

If there was a game that could incorporate the good old bg/planescape days of roleplaying parties, avadon would be the one to root for i think. I think that if the party skills (differentiating making each npc unique) could be enhanced in avadon 2, we'd have a much cooler game.