Horn of Ammon

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES A few things have changed but for questions like the above, the A6 skill reference I made will usually be accurate: http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191192&page=1 So for resistance, it says it's 3% to only the non-armor resistances in this A6 chart. In A5, is it 4%, and does it apply to both the non-armor resistances and normal armor (i.e. like Hardiness) or is it only the former?

So, I ended up picking option 2, with a Slith DT/EW, Slith DT/NM (started with 5 Mage and 5 Pole Weapons), Nephil DT/PS (started with 6 bows), and Nephil DT/NM (started with 6 or 7 mage, no weapons skills). I'm just finished with Chapter 1, and I'm loving the damage output of this party! The #2 slith spear-mage is great - he can do nearly as much melee damage as the #1 fighter, and he can also cast Well-Aimed firebolts that equal or exceed the damage from my pure mage. Having two PC's that can cast Haste and Augmentation is also great. I didn't know that you can get a dual mage-priest to near full levels by the end of the game. If I decide not to build weapons skills on the #4 mage, I'll add some priest spell levels, probably starting in Chapter 3. So far, my strategy is to kill most enemies before they can do much damage to my augmented fighters, which is really different from my more defensive strategy in the last game.

Just to make sure - "hardiness" is not exactly the same as H.E.R., right? From what I've gleaned, it basically adds another piece of armor for physical damage with an armor value of 2% per level (so Hardiness 2 would be the same as adding an extra wearable with 4% armor); and also adds 2% to each of the resistances. Also, does the skill resistance work the same way, except with 4% per level? Thanks.

Originally Posted By: Øther If you are a beginner to this, I would stay with a pack of four and finish the entire game before you really start messing around with party creation. In this game, melee characters don't deal too much damage, so mostly the would be used as meatshields for your casters. A slith is good to have as your shield, as they have higher health (or they should) and higher resistances. Possible give a few points in priest or something, to make him slightly more useful. Then the others should be any combination of priests, mages, mage-priests, and priest-mages. Its really your choice on what to do. But I would recommend not using thrown weapons. They aren't all that great. You can if you want, but thats my opinion on them. Archery isn't to good either, but at least now you don't run out of ammo. I wouldn't have any characters put many points into archery/thrown weapons, but a few if they are going to use them (and I always put a bow on all my characters) just so they can use them and let them focus on something else. Also, make all your people sliths or nephils (if they aren't going to be up front melee fighters, it may be a better idea to go with nephil because of the bow bonus) because they will get free battle disciplines. While not necessary, they are helpful to any kind of character. Well, since I'll probably only have time to play this game once through, I'm trying to make the best party I can for the run-through. I've beaten the 2 Avernum games before this, so I wouldn't say I'm a total beginner on this. I'm leaning toward my second option now, due to the superior damage I've seen from Slith pole-arms in my first game. 2)Divine/Elite Warrior Slith, pole-arms and tool use Divine/Priest or Mage Slith , pole-arms and medium priest or mage Divine/Priest Nephil, archery and strong priest Divine/Mage Nephil, archery and strong mage I'd probably go with a mage on the second guy to get the two hastes a round, though I wonder if having only one priest will be bad later on since he'll have to cast all the expensive buffs (enduring shield, steel skin). I'm also not sure if I should make the #4 a dual mage/priest, since I do want to have the strongest mage attack spells possible on at least one character. Anyway, curious about responses.

I'm considering a re-start after reaching the end of Chapter 3 on my first play, due to 1) lousy brainwashing geas and 2) realizing my #2 PC, a priest-swords-missiles nephil, sucks lizard ass. Here is my current party, which I feel was mostly strong except for the annoying #2, who critically did not have Divinely Touched and oddly enough does the same average 40 damage with a sword, javelins, and Smite! Divinely Touched/Elite Warrior Slith, pole-arms and tool use Pure Spirit/Warrior Nephil, medium melee (??) and medium priest (and then missiles ) Divine/Priest Nephil, strong archery and strong priest Divine/Mage, light archery and strong mage After reading a few dozen posts here about party creation/optimization, I've come up with the following combos for a new party. I'll be playing on Torment and doing 100% of quests/exploring, but I'm not overly concerned about min/maxing and will be mainly spoiler-free in terms of making decisions (which is what got the damn geas on my head, of course). 1) Divine/Elite Warrior Slith, pole-arms and tool use (is same in all) Divine/Priest Nephil, throwing missiles and strong priest Divine/Priest Nephil, archery and strong priest Divine/Mage Nephil, archery and strong mage 2)Divine/Elite Warrior Slith, pole-arms and tool use Divine/Priest or Mage Slith , pole-arms and medium priest or mage Divine/Priest Nephil, archery and strong priest Divine/Mage Nephil, archery and strong mage 3) Divine/Elite Warrior Slith, pole-arms and tool use Divine/Priest Nephil, throwing missiles and strong priest Divine/Mage Nephil, archery and strong mage Divine/Mage Nephil, archery and strong mage 4) Divine/Elite Warrior Slith, pole-arms and tool use Divine/Priest Nephil, throwing missiles and strong priest Divine/Mage Nephil, archery and strong mage Divine/Mage Nephil (or Human?), strong mage and medium priest, no fighting skills Let me know which combination looks best - I suspect 1 or 3 may be the most powerful and straightforward, but I'm interested in hearing what you think of how 2 and 4 would play. Of course, any new combinations are welcome too.

I'm a bit surprised that no one has mentioned ... using walls to ROB TOWNS BLIND! Quite literally, when you cast fire or force walls (sp?) to block the line of sight of storekeepers, guards, etc., and then could steal stuff right in front of their noses. You could also use this to block the line of sight of guards to loot boxes (or simply push moveable barrels to other rooms to loot them). The greedy capitalists deserved it anyway - why wouldn't they just give their best stuff away for free to the saviors of the world?

Avernum 5's economy seems to match the recession quite well So, I'm wondering what consumable items you guys save to use, and which you sell to pay for the expensive skills we all seem to like. I'm up to the end of Chapter 3 on Torment, and so far these are the only items I'm keeping, based mainly on price/effectiveness: Potions and Crystals: Curing Potions Healing Potions Energy Potions/Elixirs Augmenting Potions Invulnerability Potions Assault Crystals Piercing Crystals Wisdom Brew/Crystals Scrolls: Group Haste Group Heal Raise Dead Wands Dispel Dead Daze Terror (haven't used yet) The defensive items fall into 3 rough categories: fast healing that only takes 1/2 turn; saving (e.g. augmentation) or gaining spell points; and group buffs for surprise or tough encounters. I nixed elixirs and curing crystals due to their high costs. The invulnerability potions seem too useful to sell, although I haven't used one yet. I've gotten rid of all offensive spell items except dispel dead and daze, which have really helped in a few battles. I've yet to try terror. How does this compare with your game styles?

Next question, on when to switch my Nephil Archer/Priest from a shortbow to a longbow. So oddly enough, the best shortbow I currently have is a Blessed Bow (11-22 dmg) while the best longbow is just a Cavewood Longbow (2-6 dmg). Please check these proposed calculations: For damage ONLY, I assume the number of dice rolls = base dice (11 blessed SB, 2 for cavewood LB) + X (bonus dice from PC), where X = Dex + Bow Skill + Sharpshooter. So I believe the equation for when the average damage output of the cavewood LB will equal the blessed SB is: [(x+11)+2(x+11)]/2 = [(x+2)+3(x+2)]/2 Solve to x = 25 Currently, my archer has Dex 6, Bow, 11, and Sharpshooter 5 (x=22), so the Blessed Bow will be better for pure damage output until I gain 3 levels of these, assuming the Cavewood LB is still my only LB (no spoilers please). Now, for to-hit %, I found a post from Slarties earlier saying that the weapon's base dice is also added to the PC's bonus dice for the purposes of adding to-hit bonuses of 5% each (which is mentioned nowhere in the instructions ). Let's assume I reach 25 bonus dice (x=25), and that I have -20% TH from armor items. So if Slarties is right, then I would would have the following to-hit's for each bow : Blessed SB = 50 + 11*5 + 25*5 - 20 = 210% TH Cavewood LB = 50 + 2*5 + 25*5 - 20 = 165% TH I'd clearly want every shot to hit, though I suspect there is a 95% TH max. For the longbow, then, I would drop below 95% TH if my target had "evasion defense stat" > 14. I don't know how the latter stat is calculated - I know each level of enemy Dex adds 1, but not any other bonuses (defense? parry?). So guessestimates on average monsters' evasion stats would be helpful, at least in Chapter 3 on Torment where I am. If you guys can help me with the specifics, I think we can make the above into a useful generic formula for deciding when to switch from a weapon with higher base dice but a lower multiplier and an alternative with vice versa, which I think is a common situation. (So no need to tell me that there's longbows better than the cavewood around ). Thanks, from an old-school dice RPGer.

Originally Posted By: Dantius Originally Posted By: Horn of Ammon For example, my level 9 slith, endurance 6, with Divinely Touched, has 24% armor naked. I then add: iron helmet (4%) plated vambraces (+6%) coated cloak (+4%) iron bracers (+8%) nimble sandals (+2%) blessed belt (+5%) ring shield (+4%) (total = 33%) and reach 48% (not 57% as expected). Then, if I add an iron breastplate (+22%), I hit 62%; with a blessed breastplate (+34%), I only get to 68%. Adding a blessed shield (+12%) only improves it to 71%. So it seems there's a limit that I'm coming to quickly. Multiply armor %'s as decimals- don't add them. To makethe matt easier, just subtract the armor % from 100 and then multiply that instead. So you'd get: base (.76) iron helmet (.96) plated vambraces (.94) coated cloak (.96) iron bracers (.92) nimble sandals (.98) blessed belt (.95) ring shield (.96) Multiplying this out gets about .54, which corresponds to what, about 46%? Attribute the difference to rounding errors or a math mistake on my part. The limit you speak of is mathematical. You're multiplying together numbers that are smaller that 1 and larger than 0. In order for you to reach 0 (100% armor), you'd have to multiply an infinite amount of numbers together, which means that you'd need to be wearing infinite pieces of armor. It's impossible to actually hit 0, but I think you can reach about .1 with all the best armor, corresponding to 90% protection. EDIT: Not counting luck/hardiness/resistance/race bonuses/trait bonuses, the best most protective armor in the game gets you 0.175753, which is about 82% armor. But I think you could get it up higher with Good Constitution and a ton of skill points. Fantastic! I originally considered that it was some sort of multiplicative formula, but I didn't consider subtracting each % from 100% to find each of the multipliers (was instead trying to add the products of each each armor value multiplied by the original, which was way off ). And yes, under this system it would be better to have one slot have very high armor % rather than several slots with moderate armor %, assuming the same sum of armor values. I suppose the marginal 1% gains I was getting by switching from 3% to 4% in some slots was just due to rounding. Perhaps someone should link this post to the Strategy Central sticky - I did a number of searches looking for armor % values and could not find a similar discussion as done here. One more question on weapons follows. Thanks.

Thanks for the responses guys! Bought the full version and am in the Drake Pillars area now. Armor % is still confusing though - after hitting 60% armor for most characters, I've just noticed the +Armor % for each piece of equipment is not strictly additive. There seems to be an upper limit which becomes harder and harder to reach as the values go higher. For example, my level 9 slith, endurance 6, with Divinely Touched, has 24% armor naked. I then add: iron helmet (4%) plated vambraces (+6%) coated cloak (+4%) iron bracers (+8%) nimble sandals (+2%) blessed belt (+5%) ring shield (+4%) (total = 33%) and reach 48% (not 57% as expected). Then, if I add an iron breastplate (+22%), I hit 62%; with a blessed breastplate (+34%), I only get to 68%. Adding a blessed shield (+12%) only improves it to 71%. So it seems there's a limit that I'm coming to quickly. But interestingly enough, it seems I can still make marginal gains of 1% by making small improvements on the other slots. E.g., by switching the iron helmet (+4%) for a steel helmet (+5%), I can raise the 71% to 72%; then to 73% by switching the sandals (+2%) to boots (+4%). Distributing weight/+armor across different slots rather than in one slot may have strategic implications, then. SO - could someone let me know how this all works? Is the upper limit based on my stats / level, or some arbitrary number? I'm a nit when it comes to mechanics in RPG's (and also playing on Torment for the first time), so help is appreciated Addendum: Interesting enough, the increases in resistances (1/2 * +Armor for worn armor) are strictly additive. E.g. my slith's cold resistance went from 4% to 37% after adding 67% worth of armor (sum of item info +armor).

-Raise Dead: Thread- I saw in another post a poll about holding off raising skills from skill points until after you buy levels at a trainer. What is the advantage of this? Does having higher levels of those skills from normal training increase the price of more levels from trainers? Or does raising them from skill points prevent you from buying all three levels from trainers? From reading the walkthrough it doesn't seem that the trait/race bonuses affect purchasing skills, so I'm just a bit confused. Thanks!

Hello, from a first time poster. I've been a very long time fan of Spiderweb games, from Exile 3 back in 1997 through Avernum 4. I'm about finished with the demo for this game, and I do have some questions I couldn't find the answers for in previous posts. 1) Your party can only start with the first five spells for mage/priest, not the first seven mentioned in the instructions, right? 2) Do the negative to-hit modifiers from armor go directly into the same formula with the positive to-hit modifiers, or do they apply afterward? I assume that the max TH is 95%, so in the first case if you have more than 100% from skills/items, the -TH will subtract directly and can still result in 95% TH. Whereas n the second case, any -TH armor would effectively make it impossible to reach 95%. From playing it seems like it's the first case since my skilled fighters almost never miss despite heavy armor, but I just want to make sure. 3) Same question as above but for enemy dexterity, parry, and other -TH modifiers. Once again it appears that they apply in the same formula, since my fighters seldom miss. 4) Without too much spoiling, how tight is gold later throughout the game? In the GamesFAQ walkthrough it says it's very tight and needs to be conserved for later constructed items and training. So will I regret it later if I ever buy an item or improve an early spell level now, or is there some room for spending? Thanks!