Not the ugliest of things

Have you played Geneforge 1 yet? When it first came out on the Mac. Loved it. Did you forget the part about the bell? Someday mankind might master anti-matter as a source of energy. There will of course be the potential for anti-matter bombs. This is not an insurmountable problem. At the very least, rebel methods should reduce destructive testing of new creations.

In what way is Taygen correct 1. It's dumb to create a worthy competitor whose ecological niche greatly overlaps with your own, assuming you like yourself the way you are. 2. They aren't their kids.

Originally Posted By: The Ratt How is forcing someone to be independent worse than letting them continue to be happy. Who cares? Taygen's critique is correct in its essentials. Many a sci-fi writer would agree that making intelligent, self-replicating creations/robots is the height of stupidity. And no, Virginia, they aren't your children. Astoria and Alwan are kind of like childless urban yuppies with chimps and tigers for pets. Well tigers sometimes break your neck, and with chimps there's an uncomfortably high chance they'll one day out of the blue bite off your fingers, nose, lips, and 'nads. None of that "child" nonsense would have ever started if they had stuck to creations with 8 limbs and exoskeletons, even if such creations could talk, or if they had started with Gazers. The Shapers as depicted in GF5 are frankly too stupid to live. I lost my suspension of disbelief somewhere in the Storm Plains. That said, I ultimately went with Alwan. I almost joined Taygen all the way just to see Alwan and Astoria cry -- and had to resort to the influence of a Shaper despite 12 leadership due to my rebel rep -- but Taygen is just far too silly! His critique is right, but his response is as retarded as that "children" nonsense, originating again in 4 limbs and bilateral symmetry. Nobody's ever cheerful in the Dera Reaches, which just isn't realistic. The obvious solution, not to be found in the game, is for the Shapers to shape themselves, and seriously take up the study of rebel science. Which is a kind of crypto-rebel victory, as Taygen's ending is a crypto-Trakovite victory.

Thanks Jeff! That did the trick.

I just noticed it doesn't seem to close at all, i.e. I can leave, and the outer door will close, and as long as the outer door remains open I can see the inner door still open.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl To get through the power core, you have to go all the way in until the doors close behind you. If the door doesn't close, move further in and make sure that all your creations are next to you. I'm just not having any luck with that. The door won't close.

So I talked the old Drakon into letting me go back to sleep. I decided to explore a little before giving the HRIC a piece of my mind. Snuck into the lab and got the greave recipe. Snuck into the furnace closet -- I was kindly warned that it might be a trap, so I entered in combat mode. But nothing bad happened. Nothing else happened either, as the south door won't open, and the side ducts are blocked. Giving up the lab as too dangerous for now, I went to see the HRIC. The flunky told me to come back tomorrow, but helpfully hinted that sneaking in might be possible. Is it through the lab? Because the furnace closet remains inert. Now, I don't mind not joining the HRIC much because I'll probably just betray him anyway, but I also can't join Alwan, if I read the hint book right.

Genau.

I could never shame my mother so.

And yet people, even people who dig ditches, do sometimes sacrifice their own lives for the greater good. Or at least what they believe to be the greater good. (If treason never triumphs, how is it that the United States of America exists?) There's no accounting for taste.

Originally Posted By: Gandalf the Purple Is it "a moral failure" to fight and kill a race that has dedicated itself to eradicating yours, even if you drove it to that point? Treason never triumphs; survival is never wrong. Or to put it another way, a job digging ditches is as good of a cure for deontological angst as it is for solipsism.

Originally Posted By: Blurb If it does exist, control is essential. Otherwise, what happens is what we see: regions filled with nasty rogues threatening the populace. I think Shaping is a highly specialized art and should be tightly controlled. So references to Shapers "hoarding all the magic" leave me a bit cold from that perspective. If a man wishes to master his fate, he must first master himself. The self-interested consequence of shaper law was the assurance of shaper hegemony. The benefits of peace, prosperity, and security that accrued to those they ruled were secondary, but make for a nice rationalization of the status quo ante. At least to other shapers, and even many of those they have ruled. On the whole, the shapers are hypocrites. But that might not be relevant. Originally Posted By: Blurb If Astoria had done the right thing and resigned her post, since she could no longer support the Shapers whom she was helping to govern, she would have a chance of being the *good guy*. That would be a faction I could join. An honest woman standing up for what she believes in and willing to forgo her position of power to do what she believes is right. As it stands, she retains her lofty position on the Council while lying, backstabbing, and causing casualties among her own people. She sits in her little fortress hiding from Shaper assassins supposedly totally unaware that drakons who hate her are ferrying wretched rogues in and out of her territory. These rogues are killing HER people. Is there an excuse for a governing official being so out of touch with her own region? And why do the drakons hate her? Well, try weakness. Remember what was said by drayks and drakons about Astoria? Weak. The drayk in Helft Ruins even disrespects her for not going after rogues on her own lands, even though that permits him to encroach and live in a destroyed Shaper building. Even these oddballs, loners, and villains don't respect her no matter what side she is on. The drakons see the shaper hypocrisy, but do not understand it; they believe the profession of benefits accruing to the ruled to be merely a pose, since that's what it would be for them. In Astoria's case, her hypocrisy does not support the collective power of the shapers, thus their assessment of her. They see no threats to themselves beyond the shaper collective, a blindness which arises from their misunderstanding of the shapers. On the whole, I find the drakons to be more honest with themselves and self-aware than the shapers. So much for honesty.

Originally Posted By: Slarty And she was thanked in the history books, if not in life. Subversive lot, them historians.