Garoth

Actually, I haven't touched my shaping skills yet. In retrospect, that was probably a bad move, but it will even out soon since I won't need to boost Mech or Leadership for the rest of the game. I'll definitely make the Shapemaster Boots on and probably boost Fire Shaping a single point to let me make end game Ur-Drakons. In the meantime, I'll focus on pumping Magic Shaping to have uber-powerful Vlish and Wingbolts in chapters 2, 3, and most of 4. EDIT: My Magic Shaping is now at 5. I've reached Rivergate Keep and shaped three Vlish that are far superior to the Cryoa/Artila combos I repeatedly used to clear out the Cairn Gates. The Dumping Pits proved impossible, as did Burkes' Crazed Drayk. I'll go back for them after I gain a couple of levels. Everything else in Chapter 1 I've wiped clean, though I'm somehow 3 levels lower than I normally am (12 vs. 14 or 15). If that's really the difference between playing the first part of the game solo and with creations, it's another credit to Guardians, Serviles, and Infiltrators. EDIT 2: Having passed Chapter 2 and created Wingbolts, this isn't even a challenge run anymore. 17 intelligence and 9 magic shaping lets me just sit at the beginning of an area, send my creations out to kill everything, then come through and disarm traps and loot the place. I want to come up with something that's actually hard all the way through the game, not just at the beginning. Maybe a Servile that equips nothing, uses no items, never attacks, never casts a spell of any kind, and never uses a canister?

Originally Posted By: Nalyd, Prince of Suicides Indiscriminate dictatorship. Delicious. Drayk Trakovites? Blech, talk about forsaking your roots. Nalyd can see why Trakovism is so popular among the uneducated and insane. Khyryk doesn't count, he was a hypocrite. The drayks in Derenton Freehold, if you remember, insist that they reproduce biologically, rather than being shaped. From there, I don't see a rogue group of drayks having any qualms about fighting the continued practice of shaping.

Bah, logic. xD No healing craft makes the game challenging. No healing craft + no deaths makes the game boring. One of them had to go, so I got rid of the "no death" rule. Anyway, I just finished Crenshaw's Dell. My fyoras did pretty well cleaning out the bulk of the monsters with some super Kaboby support. xD Tycho's pack of worms (go figure) wiped them out, so I ran away, pumped all 46 essence into a Cryoa, and came back. I let Tycho go after some super-Kaboby support kept my Cryoa alive and dealing damage. Then (also go figure) the pack of Giant Rats wiped it out. I came back and shaped an unstable Thahd just out of spite, wiped them out, and then created another full-essence Cryoa. EDIT: This is becoming pretty much a necessary pattern: that I shape as many creations as possible and throw them at enemies. When they die, I run away, rinse, and repeat until the area is cleared out. I did the Forsaken Docks with four fyoras that I had to replace twice (two thahds and a fyora didn't work well). The four fyoras that I ended that area with had no trouble with Shaila's shaped pets, but all four of them died in fighting off the attack on Shaila. I ran off screen, exited combat, and used my last 8 essence to shape another fyora that just managed to shave the last couple points off the last roamer before I was screwed over. *phew* Next up is Sinkhole Bridge, then the Enraged Fyoras in Spirefield, and then Therile Colony. The Dumping Pits will be a pain. On the bright side, I finally got the Girdle of Genius and shaped two Cryoas to accompany me. Hopefully, by isolating enemies as much as possible, they'll be able to survive the next few areas. I really, really can't wait to get ahold of Vlish. EDIT 2: Both of my Cryoas dies fighting the second pack of rogues at Sinkhole Bridge. I experimented with Artilas (I had enough essence for five at 17 each) and cleared out the rogues with relative ease. The Rogue Battle Alpha killed two of my Artilas, and I replaced them with a Cryoa before rescuing Serif's rebels. Another of my Artilas died in the escape. I'll head south to to other bridge now to get some experience disarming mines and turning in Burkes. I hope to be able to swarm the two stray Alphas with Artilas for some more exp. We'll see tomorrow.

Without being able to cast Augmentation, Essence Shield, Essence Armor, Regeneration, or Mass Energize to keep them alive, I have absolutely no desire to keep fyoras around the entire game. Since I can't attack anything, and because the lifecrafter has low hp, I reloaded the tutorial (right after using the Geneforge) about a half dozen times to try and meet the original challenge requirements. My only other option at the time was to create two fyora to help me and, again, I have no way of protecting them later on. I will never cast a healing craft spell because my uber-pacifist is too queasy to get near a wound. xD I will never send a creation off to be killed intentionally, and will attempt as many strategies as I can think of with them before I resign myself to their loss and tackle the area with a different set.

Originally Posted By: Nalyd, Prince of Suicides Shaper=Lifecrafter, if we're only referring to the gameplay, not the storyline. I was referring to gameplay. But Lifecrafters > Shapers because they have sweeter graphics. xD Anyway, I've finished the first couple of sections, and, at least to start, this challenge is a pain. As I suppose you'd expect with a deadweight shaper, I started boosting mech and leadership ASAP, and will pump mech to 12 soon to get the Girdle of Genius. In the meantime, I've cleared out the Citadel Gates and the Boiling Mudpits. I attacked the Brutal Thahd after I convinced it to let me by, and it killed both of my Fyoras and Greenfang. Fortunately, it died from acid before it could come after my PC. I shaped a Cryoa for the Roamer, and it died. I ran out of sight, quickly shaped a Fyora with the little essence I had left, and entered combat again to deal the last few points of damage. I reinforced the Fyora with another, and will tackle Crenshaw's Dell tomorrow.

I don't know, I avoid shapers like the plague. I have no idea what will be a challenge with them or not. Not sure if I want to use canisters or not, or if I want to go pro-Shaper or pro-Rebel.

My Trakovite Warrior got bored of being next to invincible at the end of Chapter 3, so I'm starting a Lifecrafter challenge. I'm thinking something like total personal pacifism: -Will never equip a sword, baton, wand, armor, or shield, as these are engineered for war. Robes, cloaks, tunics, necklaces, footwear, and bracelets are okay. Pants may be worn, but greaves may not. Handwear is fine so long as the name does not contain the word "gauntlets." -Will never use a magical item intended for warfare, including spores, pods, crystals, etc. -Will never cast a battle magic, mental magic, or blessing magic spell. Will never cast a healing craft spell. -Will never reabsorb a creation. If a creation falls in battle and I don't care to reset to get it back, so be it. -This will be played full-clearing on Torment. Thoughts? Maybe something to make it harder? I would like to stick with a Lifecrafter, however, just because they're the class I use the least.

Originally Posted By: ~Nalyd~ One of the games (Nalyd believes G2) states something to the effect of "The spell isn't in your mind, where it should be. Instead, it is woven into your body, an innate part of you." There are also references (such as Burkes in G4) to how what is gained from the canisters cannot be taught, because it is not understood. The canisters, I think, improve your ability to perform a certain action by improving whatever biological mechanism causes that action to occur. They do not actually allow you to understand how you are performing said action. On the other hand, trainers allow you to gain a cognitive awareness of the techniques that improve your abilities (i.e. understanding that adding backspin to the soccer ball will keep it closer to your feet, rather than just being physically able to strike it with more delicacy). This is why it makes more sense for canisters to not count towards the two-training limit. EDIT: If you guys hadn't noticed by now, I <3 soccer.

Point ceded. Dang, I knew I hate hormones for a reason. xD

Originally Posted By: The Ratt Did anyone else notice that there a five factions, each with their own beliefs, *cities*, and quests. Does this mean there will be a town, or maybe city of Trakovites? Not strictly. I remember hearing that there were five game-winning factions as well as some non-game-winning factions. I assume that the five sects he refers to are the game-winning ones. If Trakovites aren't game-winning, then they might not have their own city. EDIT: Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon I like the dark interface. Geneforge is a dark game at times, it fits. I hope that's not the new shaper graphic but instead somethings else, but I suppose I could live with it as it is. Go Jeff! I agree. Maybe it's the missing Strong Magic/Weak Combat class? Not that that would be an incredible unit, but it would be fun for a challenge.

I'd also like to note that the above does not allow us to conclude whether "canister madness" is a genetic or psychological effect of canister use. However, personality dysfunctions tend to be a result of brain damage, which genetic modification would not change after the brain is fully developed. Thus, "canister madness" is likely either a result of brain damage that the canisters or a psychological inability to cope with the new genetic capabilities. It is possible that both are caused by canister use. Litalia in G4 talks about how she had to "relearn" her "humanity:" that the canisters had "erased" her emotions. This does not in itself indicate one issue or the other, since both causes of "canister madness" could create this phenomena and be treated in the same way. Brain damage would create an issue of training different, undamaged sections of the brain to handle the same types of situations that the damaged portions used to. A psychological illness could be treated therapeutically in the same way. Thus, I think that the exact cause of "canister madness" will never be understood unless Jeff includes something about it in G5. It's a shame, too, because it raises interesting questions of morality and would impact the sides I took in-game.

I'm not an expert on genetics, but what understanding I have allows me to draw the following conclusions about Geneforge. Excepting a few fantastic assumptions at the micro level, Geneforge is actually very scientifically accurate. In G1, G2, and (I seem to recall) G3, you find "peering machines" that allow you to observe flesh sitting on a platform. You observe the double-helix of DNA and eventually magnify the sample such that you can see each of the bases within the gene. These are recorded by the observer in a 4-character language, and changes are made to them to observe what effect that specific change has on the organism. In order of largest to smallest, the components of a genetics are: 1. Genome 2. Chromosome 3. Gene 4. DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) 5. Nucleotides (base pairs) 6. Bases Bases are the four different "characters" that the Geneforge saga observers see and record. This is accurate, as there are only four bases in the DNA sequence. Each side of the double helix DNA carries a series of bases. These bases are paired up with another base from the other side of the double helix. This happens in very specific ways: only certain pairs of bases can exist. These base pairs collectively form the DNA. The gene is comprised of a series of DNA. Genes are compacted into a unit of storage known as the chromosome. Every chromosome in an organism collectively forms its genome. The base pairs are themselves not significant. However, the sequence of them is. When base pairs are "read" by an organism to create proteins, a different protein will be created for different genes (a series of base pairs). An estimated 25,000 genes exist within the human genome, each responsible for a different protein or proteins that are produced. These proteins in turn account for each and every cellular function. Different organisms have different numbers of base pairs per gene. Because of this, it is theoretically possible to modify the cellular functions of an organism both by changing and by adding additional base pairs to the gene. However, to add additional base pairs requires the removal and then replacement of caps that are placed on DNA to code that it has ended. This makes it far more complex than simply changing base pairs. Both because it is more complex and because the early Geneforge games specifically refer to "changing" genes, I think it is far more likely that canisters and the Geneforge alter, rather than add, base pairs to the DNA. In regards to fertility and heredity, gene-altered people are still biologically human. The ability to reproduce depends on compatible chromosomes, not the similarity of the genes contained therein. However, the interactions of altered and regular genes in reproduction are subject to the same uncertainties as any reproduction: what traits are inherited and which are not is a matter of recessive vs. dominant and pure chance. While, theoretically, the "canister madness" could then be bred out, it would require incredibly close monitoring and the removal of "canister mad" people from the gene pool. Geneforge assumes that certain proteins can be produced that allow for superhuman cellular functions, and that every magically talented person possesses these genes. While it may be difficult to properly execute a complicated spell, it would be to these people much as trying to juggle a soccer ball is to us: challenging, but completely natural. Genetic modification, then, would in some way supplement these magical abilities by improving one's ability to execute whatever mechanic allows for spellcasting. It would be as modifying a real person's DNA to allow their quadriceps to contract more quickly, thus improving their ability to juggle a soccer ball. This does not, however, impact their cognitive ability to focus on keeping the ball in the air, or their subconscious understanding of the implications of their actions. This fits very well with the Barzite notion of providing training simultaneously to providing canisters, thus allowing control and increasing sanity.

I've always liked the idea of being able to shape in combat, and like the idea of cheaper, rather than stronger, charged creations. I think that the roster limit provides enough limitation on abuse of that to make it a valid idea, though exactly what they should cost is subject to debate. I also like the idea of charged creations being a separate subset. I <3 Rodthizon's.

I've never bothered enlisting help from the Rebel camp, because the only thing I can't handle myself is the level 30 mines, which I can just cast Augmentation + Essence Armor and walk through.

That said, it's counterintuitive that charged creations are supposed to be insanely powerful and deal at best very little more damage than their regular counterparts.

Originally Posted By: Petoffen Thanks; I would but don't think my guys can take the hits from the main flowers while killing the buds. So, new plan, I'm gonna use those blue ice crystals along with the two cryoa's, that should kill them in one round. The haste and move back would probably work too, but I have more crystals than haste:) Compliments to Jeff for coming up with the fresh monster, we've played enough games that you don't see a lot fresh:) If you can take the Spinecore (that's the central "flower") out in one round, the buds can't do squat. Focus on getting rid of the Spinecore, then take out the defenseless buds later for exp. Cryoa are the best early-game creations, though I tend to play as a solo character until I can train in Create Vlish from Rivergate Keep (Lifecrafter runs excluded, of course). The Vlish then become sweet, followed by Wingbolts and (if you're using canisters) Drayks. Kyshakks and all battle creations are pretty meh. Wingbolts are more essence-efficient than Gazers, and Ur-Drakons are generally more useful than Eyebeasts.

Charged creations drive me nuts. I don't think I've ever found them to be necessary or worth the essence cost vs. non-charged alternatives. I don't keep my creations all game, though, I start out playing solo, make a pair of Vlish ASAP, then trade them out for a Wingbolt/Drayk combo in early chapter 3. Sometimes I dabble in Cryodrayks, and eventually end up with an Ur-Drakon or two.

I've always repaired Moseh, just because it's so advantageous for even a hardcore rebel.

Originally Posted By: ~Nalyd~ Except for the cool graphics! ^Win lol I've never actually been able to get Moseh down to one HP to know that he's unkillable, so I guess I know now why he's such a pain. I've always liked the Guardian sect. Even if they're not the easiest (c'mon, Infiltrators are like an auto-win at this game) they always manage to pull through for me to be beastly at the end of the game. In thornflinging, still not inherently better than the Servile, but Gruesome Charm + Nimble Sandles + Archibald training + ultra-cheap Missile Weapons + regular Dex. and Missile boosting starts hitting for tons of damage with Reapers. I don't usually keep save data once I've cleared, and I'm just entering the Fens on my current Warrior playthrough. I'll post a picture of the stats once I've finished up everything in Ilya province (Shaftoe and his ridiculous Aura of Flames-like last ditch attack). EDIT: Inventory: http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6066/tristramsinventoryyq1.th.gif Stats: http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7829/tristramsstatsek3.th.gif I've just entered Aziraph Camp Gamma on a Warrior powergame. I have 108 rep, which will let me get Ossissess' quest by the time I reach her. I repaired Moseh and killed Shaftoe and Eliza. My next level goes into Strength so I can equip the Shaped Breatplate (enchanted with a Steel Spine) without being encumbered. After that, another point of End is in order. Training with Archibald will make handling the fens easy from a damage output perspective, and soon I'll be able to replace my Vlish with a Wingbolt and a Drayk.

It seems that the bulk of people consider the Warrior sect to be useless with the introduction of the Servile. Servile runs are well-documented, but warriors seem to be used mostly in challenges. While I certainly see how the Servile is superior in the early game, after three Torment playthroughs with each (one powergame, one heavily pro-Shaper, one no canister), I find that the Servile is only noticeably superior with no access to canisters. From where I stand, they follow growth curves within the game, with the Servile being far superior at the beginning and the gap narrowing exponentially until they end at more or less the same status. Typically, I'll play to the Warrior's strong Leadership and Mechanics to conserve some early skill points to boost Mental Magic and Blessing Magic to three each. These need little improvement for the rest of the game, since they allow for a strong enough Daze to last through Chapter 2 and the use of all Blessing spells through Speed. As a solo character, the Warrior can get a quick level boost by hitting the Boiling Mudpits before even Crenshaw's Dell, then ride this extra level through handing Shaila over to the Shapers without difficulty. By using the War Blessing, Augmentation, and Discipline Wand (which is useless the entire rest of the game), a Warrior can push through Burkes Drayk for exp. before hitting the Dumping Pits. Icy Crystals, Javelins, and Daze can get you through the Thahds and Spinecores without needing to rely on luck, and, even with only 7 Endurance Augmentation keeps me from being threatened. Clearing out the Caravan areas before you talk to them and using a Venom Baton for the Pyroroamers lets you cruise through the Cairn Gates without any real difficulties. Augmentation and Speed are amazing. He clears out the Battle Alphas at the bridge by himself to finish Chapter 1 at level 15. Points are pumped first into hitting 6 Leadership and 8 Mech, two extra points of Endurance, one extra point of Strength, and a total skill of three each in Mental Magic and Blessing Magic. Dexterity is the next to get a couple points, with enough left over for a point or two of Intelligence, two to Healing Craft, and one to Magic Shaping for later. In Chapter 2, my Warrior hits up the early quests to get another level and some exp. before training in Create Vlish in Rivergate Keep. His six or so Intelligence courtesy of the Girdle of Insight gets him a pair of basic Vlish (only two points of Int.) with enough left over to cast Augmentation. A single of his ~20 stocked up Essence Pods lets him cast enough Daze and Speed spells to clear the anvil in Sandros Mines and proceed without difficulty to the safehouse. Some sneaking around gets him the Essence-Infused skin from the Turabi Gates, and he makes himself the Gauntlets of Savagery. From here, he plays a unique game, blending the best elements of the Lifecrafter and Servile: two beastly creations (at this point the Vlish really are) with decent Daze and Blessing support; and an ungodly hit chance with the Oozing Sword and/or Acid or Submission Batons. Again, choosing the order in which to tackle areas for experience keeps the Warrior out of trouble, and, by the end of the chapter, he's level 28 and back to far-greater-than-necessary essence reserves. The rest of the game is fairly textbook: boosting Fire Shaping by one to take immediate advantage of the presence of Drayks, creating a Wingbolt for some Fens shenanigans, and ending up with either some Wingbolts, some Drayks, a pair of Ur-Drakons, or a combination thereof by the endgame. Problem points: Killing Shaftoe Killing Moseh (after repairing) Western Morass/Killing Matala (duh) In the no-canister run, the lack of a Drayk/Cryodrayk hurts, but isn't at all insurmountable. In the long run, my character ends up with higher HP than in Infiltrator, an awesome band of creation support, and the ability to fling support spells around with reasonable skill. Even without battle magic, they throw around Reapers and the Oozing Sword. So why all the hating on Warriors?