Sappho

Do what you wish with it Micro. -Euphoria-

Quote: Originally written by Azuma: Avernum 5 was supposed to be enjoyed raw. No script-editing side dishes. Quote: Originally written by Azuma: Quote: Originally written by Sappho: tl;dr We know that already. We're just saying that script editing(modding if you want it... ) removes the essence of the game. We don't play the game to edit it. We play it because we play it. Hypocrite. You are supposed to enjoy the game in the raw without any "cheats". Does not using this cheat "remove the essence of the game?" Play the game because you play it eh? Yeah right, thats what I thought. An exploit is a cheat no matter what you tell yourself. If you cannot be honest with yourself don't go judging others. Just my .02 cents.

Over and over and over again I see the same recurring error when talking about unlocking the special skills. Everyone talks about them in terms of the level needed in this skill or that skill to unlock them, and then need to back peddle to adjust for bonus stats from items, or skills bought at trainers, or skill levels from traits. Here is the basic simple (and if you look carefully, the one place that gets it right is the walkthrough) fact....to unlock the special skills you must look at THE COST to train skills, not skill levels. It is all about skilling COST. Once again, for those who need repetition, it is the COST to train a skill that you need to look at, not the skill level itself. Doing this should adjust all errors of every possible character development scenario to come out correctly for each unlockable skill. Oh, and this fella made this very same observation in post #6 of this thread: Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Really, the most sensible measure would be in terms of how much each base skill has to cost before the special skill becomes available. People on these boards really need to start READING posts in threads before firing off replies. I suppose I am just telling the old timers what they already knew though, even though they completely fail to make these obvious observations over and over again. As for me...this post marks my last effort here. This place is far to unfriendly. Peace.

Quote: Originally written by Azuma: Quote: Originally written by Sappho: tl;dr We know that already. We're just saying that script editing(modding if you want it... ) removes the essence of the game. We don't play the game to edit it. We play it because we play it. Do you bother to read posts before replying? Based on most of your forum comments it seems you do not.

I must say, I am quite disappointed at the above three responses. At best they seem dismissive; at worst they seem to be making some negative judgment about modding. First I would like to ask...if you have nothing constructive to add to this topic, and only wish to poo poo the mere idea of modding, please don't bother to leave a comment. It adds nothing useful to the conversation, and only servers to derail this as a useful thread. My next observation about the above three responses is that they seem to completely overlook the potentially wonderful applications of modding. The entire point of this thread was supposed to show how to go about modding certain aspects of the game with a fair amount of ease. Granted, the example I chose to post would amount to no more than a mere cheat, but that does not render the methods used, nor their potential outcome, necessarily cheats. If anyone were to bother reading the entire post you would notice the end of it, which hints at the possibility of creating a much more sophisticated crafting system that enhances game play. Indeed, many aspects of the game could be expanded by modding the scripts. I have been taken somewhat aback by the prevailing anti-modding attitudes here on the Spiderweb forums. Every other game I have ever played, and that is many, that could be easily modded have been; enthusiastically, and copiously. Why are most players here so against a little script exploration? <---rhetorical question; if you want to answer, start a new thread please. Just to expand on my point a little bit...with script modding: -You can add new quests. -You can create new items -You can create new spells -You can create a much better crafting system And, if someone with much better programming skills than I -which are nearly nil- it may be possible to: -Create new maps -Create new towns -Create new monsters -Create new graphics -Create new skills/attributes -Add enormously to this game we love -Etc... I just wanted to try to open up people's eyes to what IS possible.

Here are some generalized tactics for altering scripts to make crafters more friendly. I will use, as a general example, Gorp in Exodus. These same types of changes will have similar effects at any crafter, FYI. I will bold sections of interest that will/should be edited. Ok, here is an unaltered part of this crafting script: begintalknode 77; state = 75; nextstate = -1; condition = num_of_item(296) > 0 && num_of_item(295) > 0 && coins_amount() >= 200; question = "Make a shortsword. (Give 1 fine steel, 1 focusing crystal, and 200 coins.)"; text1 = "Gorp takes the materials, inspects them, and nods approvingly. _Good. Good. Now I make thing._"; text2 = "Gorp gets to work, heating up the steel and nimbly smashing it into shape. What he lacks in training, he makes up for in raw strength. You back up to keep the waves of intense heat coming off the anvil from searing you."; text3 = "Soon he is done. He cools off the blade in a barrel of water and hands it to you. _Good thing. Gorp do good._"; action = REUSABLE; code = take_num_of_item(296,1); take_num_of_item(295,1); change_coins(-200); reward_give(65); break; Ok, this is the part in the conversation where you ask for a shortsword, Gorp takes your materials, and you are given the sword. Look at the first part I bolded...the condition line. The function of the condition line essentially means that this text option only appears if your party meets the proper conditions...in this case the correct materials needed to make this item. Since it is always better to see all the options available...even if you don't have sufficient materials, I always DELETE the condition line. That is step #1. Now look at the next few bolded lines...the "Code =" lines. This basically could also be called the action line. This tells the game what to do specifically. Here you can see the script saying to take items from you, take some gold, and reward you with an item #. Delete both take lines, and the coin lines, so that all that is left is the reward line. This is step #2. What you are left with should look like this: begintalknode 77; state = 75; nextstate = -1; question = "Make a shortsword. (Give 1 fine steel, 1 focusing crystal, and 200 coins.)"; text1 = "Gorp takes the materials, inspects them, and nods approvingly. _Good. Good. Now I make thing._"; text2 = "Gorp gets to work, heating up the steel and nimbly smashing it into shape. What he lacks in training, he makes up for in raw strength. You back up to keep the waves of intense heat coming off the anvil from searing you."; text3 = "Soon he is done. He cools off the blade in a barrel of water and hands it to you. _Good thing. Gorp do good._"; action = REUSABLE; code = reward_give(65); break; Now you are just given this item for FREE, no materials needed, no money needed. You will need to perform these same edits to each "Talk Node" ala "begintalknode" for each item that is possible to craft (they each have seperate talk nodes that is). Now, if you want to push the script cheat further there are more available options for you. I will just present altered code = lines to shorten my examples. This: code = change_coins(30000); reward_give(65); break; would give you the item AND 30,000 gold. This: code = change_coins(30000); reward_give(77); break; would give you an Oozing Sword, AND 30,000 gold. This: code = change_coins(30000); reward_give(81); break; would give you a radiant soulblade and the $$$. Etc... Just change the # in (x) on the reward_give line to the begindefineitem # from the av5itemschars.txt file. Now, many of you may be thinking...wow! this is some major cheating, and you are right, it is. BUT, there is an obvious other issue at work here. Anyone who cared to take time to script a much much more advanced, and involved crafting system could do so. If you alter the conditions line, instead of deleting it, you could change what the crafter is looking for to make more advanced items. Lets say you changed a condition line to needing a blessed breastplate, emeralds, focusing crystals, and fine steel as the condition to be offered an Emerald Breastplate then there could be an advanced level of crafting added to the game. Take this info and do what you will with it. Enjoy.

I have not tested this, but I think this will suffice as a script hack that will allow easier raising of the dead. Open the av5itemschars.txt file: find begindefineitem 252 Replace: begindefineitem 252; it_name = "Mushrooms"; it_which_icon_ground = 14; it_which_icon_inven = 14; With: begindefineitem 252; it_name = "Mushrooms"; it_ability = 187; it_level = 7; it_which_icon_ground = 14; it_which_icon_inven = 14; This should give mushrooms the same abilities as a Raise Dead scroll. Now just be sure to pick up all the mushrooms you find. Enjoy. Just as a side note...this same method can be used to give any item the powers of any other item. Or, you can change the appearance of any item to look like another. Or alter the sell values, etc... All you need to do is "find" the item with a power or property you wish to emulate in another item. Copy those lines, and then paste them in the define section for the item you wish to alter. It is very easy to do, and as long as you keep a save of the original file, completely safe to try. Doing some things (such as altering appearances might need a few trial and error attempts to get right, but most things are quite straightforward. For example, if you wanted mushrooms to look like a raise dead scroll then you'd put this in instead: begindefineitem 252; it_name = "Mushrooms"; import = 120; it_ability = 187; it_level = 7; it_graphic_coloradj = 64; I still have not tested it, but that should work, though they will still be called Mushrooms. Alter the it_name = "Mushrooms" line to it_name = "Raise Dead Mushrooms" or whatever other name you'd like them to be called and that would change as well. Etc...