A less presumptuous name.

You may want to post this in the tech support forum.

Meaning you play the factions so that you get the Shaper/non-drakon ending and then switch? And why can't you get the Taygen area that way?

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity And if you play it right, you can enter every area in the game except for one small part of the Lost Dera Vault, so you don't need to miss much of what you see in the other plots. What about inner gazakii uss (or whatever it's called now)? Last I knew, only non-drakon followers could get in there, ironically.

Talk with Astoria a bit more. It seems to be a common thing for people to miss. You have to talk with her a bit (I can't remember the exact dialogue) until you actually get the quest to search his room.

Shaper. Suits my style and I feel important.

The best thing to do with poison is, I'm assuming you're in the Okavano fen, is daze. Make sure that your mental magic is strong enough. Then you can pick them off one by one.

As for tedium, all I can say is this. Move all of your loot to a city in the lower map. Use the travel breaks to get a snack. Don't carry things with you that you won't use. Creations: get used to it. You're a shaper, you're only good for buffs, healing, and mental magic. Stats: None that I'm aware of.

Yes, while it would be more doable (although still very difficult) to change a similar structure to an elephant trunk, getting one to sprout out is very difficult. Although, the can grow human ears on the backs of mice... Not really sure how this relates to geneforge anymore, but genes and development is always fun

And as for the PC playing a key role in the cleanup and the cleanup never going as planned: That's called setup. If the council cleaned everything up perfectly, there would be no game to play...

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug "Then I shaped new serviles, trusting, happy, mindless creatures, not knowing the life of miserable labor that awaited them, and I put them to work." For all we know, she and the watcher person she was with collectively sat down in a shaping hall and made a bunch in vats. This is how the unbound were made, and we don't see people running around shaping them, do we? In the very beginning of the original game, I think it is when you inquire as to how the serviles have survived, they say that they can sexually reproduce because they are so hard to shape.

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug Originally Posted By: Master1 When's the last time you've seen someone shape a servile or servant mine with the wave of their hand? And these are two very useful creations. We haven't. But it's implied by Litalia that even a freshly minted Shaper can make entire groups of serviles. I must have missed this. Can you site a line for me, because this goes against everything I have ever thought. Quote: Quote: He's saying that the virus will stay around for a while, continuing to kill newly Shaped creations. It doesn't. It causes one wave of destruction, and that's it. Right, because the flu never comes back. It is in the vary nature of viruses to mutate and stick around. Now, the Shaper world may be different, but there are still genes. Unless you can find a place in the games where the mode of action of viruses as well as their virulence is discussed, I think it is safe to say that they are similar in mode of action and such as real-world viruses are. Quote: I'd argue that since the Barring of Sucia, the Shaper Council has been unable to rule efficiently and act decisively. They made blunder after blunder, and the situation continued to spiral out of control until they had open rebellion and Unbound scorching their lands. The way the Shaper Council of Geneforge 5 reacts to some pressure demonstrates that they are unfit to rule. Actually, the Shapers have only been messing things up since Sucia was rediscovered. It can be argued that the baring of Sucia was a mistake or was done improperly, but the method employed there as worked numerous other times by the Shapers and worked just fine. Also, since when does 20 or even 50 years of trouble undo peace and prosperity for centuries? Looking at the math, it seems as if maybe 5% of the time has been bad. Seeing as how in 4/5 of the endings the war pretty much ends, I'd say the Shapers have a pretty good track record as far as safety is concerned.

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug Quote: Also if you played through all the geneforge games you would know that some creations are more complicated. Which ones? Glaahks? Kyshakks? Because in the final battle against Ghaldring, three regular Shapers are just conjuring them up in minutes. When's the last time you've seen someone shape a servile or servant mine with the wave of their hand? And these are two very useful creations. Quote: Quote: The shapers shape new creations a week later. The purity agent is a virus.It is not a one second event. The atomic bomb effected japan for many years to come after the bombing and the purity agent will have the same effect considering that it is a virus. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. He's saying that the virus will stay around for a while, continuing to kill newly Shaped creations. Quote: It's obvious that Jeff made an effort to demonstrate how insular and slow to act the Shaper Council is, and he succeeded to such a degree that it boggles the mind. Despite possessing an enormous amount of power, top quality Shapers hide behind fortress walls while outsider humans do the fighting and dying (just witness Perkalia Orchards. Not ONE Shaper or Creation is present to assist the outsider humans). I really despise that sort of weakness, and it's also nauseating that the Shapers would deny creations and outsider humans the ability to defend themselves, and then hide behind those same disempowered creations and outsider humans when they meet any serious opposition. Contrast that behaviour to the Drakons, who are proactive and willing to take calculated risks. No one says you have to like the Shapers, but please keep in mind that they have kept the people of the empire safe and secure for hundreds, probably thousands of years. They have shaped plants for places like the Dera Reaches, allowing for increased habitation. (Also note that all of the shaped vegetation would likely die as well, further decimating the food supply on the entire continent.)

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug Except that the Shaper Empire is close to destruction. Unbound and rogues are running freely throughout the lands, drakons are lodged firmly in the Dera Reaches, there are Secret laboratories under the Shaper capital cities, and both routes to the Shaper citadel are blocked. First, have you been to the storm plains? Second, have you played through any end-game scenario other than the Drakon's? I think that just maybe a bunch of people end up going to the Shaper Citadel, meaning that it's not completely surrounded. Quote: Things are pretty desperate for the Shapers in GF5. Granted, they are in a stalemate with the Rebels, but their people are suffering horribly and rogues are everywhere. Stalemate? Again, have you seen the storm plains? It is true that, after the release of the unbound, the Shapers did lose a good amount of ground, but they have started to take that back and, again, see the storm plains, beaten the rebels back to their stronghold and prevented them from making another wave of unbound. Finally, the Shapers would suffer more than they would gain from releasing the purity agent. With most/all of the body guards and patrol units in many places dying, the Shapers are going to be in a pretty tight spot. What would happen to the U.S. if 90% of our military died in the course of a week as a result of our own actions (and this is not a debate on the value of creation v. human life)? Yes, there are plenty of people to replace them, but that would take time. The same holds true with the Shapers. They can make more creations, but that takes time, and while that is happening, the Drakons, who are not, if I recall correctly, completely affected by the agent, will wreck havoc on the Shapers.

I'd like the blue pill please.

He is asking whether you would chose the life of your fellow Shapers or ... I think creations, but I'm not sure. Anyway, this is another reason for not releasing the agent. What makes up the bulk and front line of the Shaper armies? What happens when all of them go bye-bye? Everyone who has a beef with the Shapers can just march up and do what they want. There aren't nearly enough human soldiers to maintain the peace, especially since the Drakons (I think) aren't completely killed by the agent. The Shapers would loose all of their security within their own territory.

Quote: Creations can easily be remade Yes, because the thousands of ornks that the Shapers and others farm for food can be remade in an instant. And all of the Shapers want to just sit around Shaping new creations. Also, serviles, perhaps the most useful animal-style creations, are a royal pain to shape, as mentioned in gf 1. Reshaping all of the creations, even if only the animal-like ones die, would take years upon years as well as massive amounts of essence and other resources, like money and Shapers. I agree with the Shapers, but Taygen seems to be a bit loony. The Shapers have spent hundreds or even thousands of years making Terestia (sp) what it is today. To have all of that undone in a week? Not smart.

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug The serviles *are* rebelling in Geneforge. If the Shapers of past generations were justified in targeting all drayks for extermination because *some* drayks rebelled, why isn't Taygen justified in doing the same for serviles? Taygen is just as justified as the Shapers of old, or so it seems. However, just because both have the same amount of justification, they are not necessarily justified. We don't know the exact conditions leading up to the ban on drayks, but it may well have been an overreaction. Also, the ban on drayks affects just drayks, whereas Taygen's agent would destroy all creations (or at least the animal-esque ones), including the ornks used by many as a primary source of food. Quote: The Ashen Isles is an island fortress. Trying to take it would be the equivalent of an assault on Japan, there would be massive casualties. First off, comparing the Shaper world to ours really doesn't work. When's the last time you saw a fyora hanging around outside your window? Also, who says that the Shapers will make a move on the Ashen Islands any time soon? If I were in their position, I would leave it alone long enough for all the currently living creations and humans to die out, and then consider diplomatic relations with them, with the long-term hope of reuniting the whole place.

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug Quote: Shapers are not nearly as bad as the rebels in creating un-controlable rogues such as the unbound. No, they just create the Purity Agent. As to the Unbound, hey, whatever works, right? Just so you know (this also applies to your other thread, but fits in better here), most Shapers disagree with Taygen. You'll notice that Astoria, Alwan and even Rawal all give you quests designed to hinder or completely halt Taygen's work on the purity agent. It would seem as through all three of them do in fact care about creation life, even if they find it less important than human life. I'm not saying that the Shapers are perfect, far from it, but they aren't all (or, based on my interpretation of the Shapers' responses to Taygen, most of them aren't) cold, heartless taskmasters.

I suppose I could benefit from using the crystals, but as a heavy shaping Shaper, it never seemed worth it. I always sell them right away. Maybe playing on torment would change that...

I would guess that it has to do with the sex changes of a few of the serviles between geneforges one and two, although, having not played them entirely in years, I cannot be sure. And yes, it does seem as if the reviewer does have some link to the community, if only as a brief lurker. (but hey, that's all I did for the review)

I can just see this becoming a shaper v. rebel thread, if it isn't already. Anyway, in choosing an in-game ideology, I currently would go with Alwan. I've always had a thing for the Shapers. However, I haven't done an Astoria run through yet, so that may change. Now for my personal ideology: I believe that intelligent, peaceful creations should be allowed to exist, likely even coexist in the future, with people. The biggest thing that the Shaper world needs is a new government. Something along the lines of a central bicameral legislature. The Shaper council remains and governs all shaping, essence, and maybe regular magic things, while a democratic congress of sorts keeps the show running. They come together for the big things like war, trade, exploration, and so on and so forth. (Yes, I do spend my free time living in my custom geneforge world where I am the most powerful Shaper and I personally help to reform the government about 100-150 years after the war)

Ooooh, the blame game. Well, the rebels themselves ultimately chose to rebel, but the Shapers definitely didn't make it a hard choice. Then again, the drayks kind of started it, but the Shapers drove the drayks to it. The researchers at Sucia kind of left things in a mess, but the proto-Shapers started the whole thing. You know, I blame the ancestors to humanity for giving rise to humanity. But then, natural selection caused that. I blame life! My point, it doesn't matter who started it, but who ends it. History is told by the winners. Also, the way each side deals with the rebellion is important, but a whole separate topic for debate. In short, I don't think that any one person or group can be blamed entirely.

Either that or, seeing as how he frequently admits he forgets a lot between games, he is just amazingly lucky. We love these games, so anything that doesn't make complete sense draws our attention to it. We then create a logical explanation for it, whether it was intended to be that way or not. Just saying...

In my current playthrough, my first on hard, I noticed that this area is actually kind of difficult. The only reason I survived was daze. The minefields are probably your friend. Although, if you have trouble here, I can only imagine what the stoneworks will be like. All I can suggest is daze and leveling.

I really should make a note in my signature that my spelling of non real words is always going to be horribly off. I glance at the word when I first read it and then say it to myself that way, if I ever say it aloud at all. So yeah, my spelling sucks (I actually just typed "speeling" on accident).