Retlaw May

The Taker "simpithy" that Waylander is refering to, is probably that of that town on Gull Island. He makes the generalization that all towns are treated like this, but that is a bad generalization. The only reason that they treated humans like this there was because it was so remote and small (also the dirrect will of drakons was missing there). If you look at the ending of G3 you will see that drakons are ruthless to their targets (not to mention the diseases they manufactured) and set everything "aflame". Also, I found that the Taker leader, Ghaldring, lacked empathy to all (including the Shapers, regular humans, serviles, drayks, and even his own drakons) when he looks on deaths and losses, which even the Shapers hold some remorse for their own regular troops.

ET you talk as if a mighty ruler is a good ruler, that is often quite false, and even if he is both mighty and good, he will still be overthrown by other power hungry people. I don't think that you really can argue that good rulers wouldn't be constantly killed.

It is kind of funny when you talk of captains because usually (at least until the 20th century) captains of national vessels were usually only there because of connections and in pirate vessels they were voted in by the whole crew, and only had power in the heat of battle.

First on the original topic:

I'll admit that in G1 I liked helping the Obeyers first and then I used the Genefoge and went rampant on the Taker city. In G2 I like playing as a no canister loyalist, because it is the most orderly way to go. And in G3 I am a Shaper that agrees with most of the Shaper answers except I let those two serviles who have been "tainted" live because they still want to serve the Shapers.

On the current topic:

I guess I'm a moderate here. I would exile all the intelegent serviles to a reasonably remote and decent island, but keep the regular serviles as is. My reasoning is that most serviles (until stired up by the rogues) like what they are doing. I don't like the intelegent serviles' policy of forcing many reluctant serviles to follow them. Oh and ET may be pleased to here that everytime I play a Shaper loyalist in G3, I always kill Learned Darian (why did Darian get a sex change after G1 anyways?)

I can just imagine the human body parts floating around in that pool...

Maybe the human Geneforge is like the Holy Grail, it should only be used by the pure (such as Galahad).

I would say that this topic is dead considering the one asking the questions is now banned (for good reason).

I forget what you get for turning in the canister, I'm playing through G3 for the 4th time as a no canister loyalist, and I would like to have an excuse to kill the rebels, but I won't do that if I get something good for it later.

The problem of the plants growing too much isn't that they will take the land over, but that they will suck all the nutrients out of the soil.

Mmm... Calamari...

No servile could plant in the dead ground that would result from your philosophy.

I'll tell you something ET, there would be no food in the Geneforge world if your philosophy was adapted. As for your belief of all these suto-Shapers creating a way to fix that 1)they wouldn't have the training 2)anyone with any power would be using it for destructive purpouses.

Also, as for your coment as you being the only one keeping the boundries between the real world and that of Geneforge, that is a joke. What you may interpret as the others blurring the line is just reponse to your eratic jumping of topics and examples. You concede something in one post, but are using it again in the next.

ET, for all of your talk of eventuall progress is faulty, progress (or at least non-military progress) cannot come if the world is in constant turmoil and death. You know what usually instates progress? Surpluses: surplus of food, surplus of money, etc. But with your philosophy, there will be non of this. Crops will die from diseases created by random people with no true Shaper training or the soil will loose all nutrients because farmers are creating plants that grow to fast and too much. People will be afraid to form their own oppinions in fear of being killed by an unstable person in the area who is vying for power.

Do we really know if she wasn't the equal of Garzahds? And even if he was stronger, wasn't it only because he consorted with demons? And as for power what are the rankings between the three great mages: Erika, Garzahds, and Rentar-Ihrno?

My guess:

Erika

Rentar-Ihrno

Garzahds

And how about among the (lesser) great mages: Patrick, Solberg, Linda, X, Rone, and (add any if I forgot some).

My guess:

X

Linda

Rone

Solberg

Patrick

And while we are at it, is Athron or Khoth more powerful?

My guess=Khoth

Also, I wouldn't be too surprised if Erika was 100+ years old, I mean, she was the greatest of the human mages.

I'm not sure if anyone has dirrectly addressed this, but do people think that the melee system will be fixed in G4? And if it is how do you think it would/could be done?

There is a required section that talks of technical experience... Besides playing around with my computer and learning things by experience, I've only taken an intro to computers class...

Have you ever read The Prince? I have and I can tell you that while an interesting read, it is way outdated. The basics it outlines barely even fit to our time period anymore. If you were born 400+ years ago, your way might have worked, but in this age it never would. Also, it can't deal with the Geneforge world either since he never really thought of a world where there are hundreds of individuals who, if one went out of control, could wipe out all humans if he/she wanted or was simply absent minded.

My problem with your argument is that you have absolutly no regard for the consequensess of actions or the long term reprocussions.

So should everyone have access to nuclear technology? (I'm not just saying countries but say for kicks decided I wanted to buy some warheads). Or mabey I'll go to the liquor store and buy some anthrax or other bio-weapons.

Well G1 had an area that had "Old rogues" which they were either 200 year old vlish (which I somehow don't think it is likely vlish are made to live that long) or decendents.

You are fogetting that unsupervised shaping of anykind can result in things like new diseases. I believe that it is the fear of this and not of rogues that truly scares the shapers about letting people learn how to shape.

In G1 there are indications that vlish, battle alphas, and clawbugs could mate too.

It'd be interesting to see their reaction when you whip out a canister and chug it right in front of them.

I'm not one to advocate war, but war is what often leads to jumps of technology or change. Besides canisters and the Geneforge, Shapers seem to have remained, more or less, unchanged for the last few centuries (except for a few changed laws), this war (as Jeff seems to have hinted) is causing the Shapers to make some jumps that may never have been made otherwise and (if the Shapers win) will cause them to probably be even further advanced than they were before. Whether this is good or bad is yet to be seen.

How many people have beaten torment with no canisters in G1?

Hey, Shapers may be arrogrant, but they are also very cautious.