Old Scratch

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: I think I removed experience drain in Avernum 3. I CERTAINLY made sure experience drain never takes levels away. Nothing takes levels away. What this looks like is a file corruption, either in the game or the saved game. I suggest chucking Avernum 3, downloading a fresh copy, and reinstalling. Then go back to a saved game from before the levels mysteriously disappeared. There is nothing in the game as designed to cause that effect. - Jeff Vogel My copy of Avernum 3 is from the CD-ROM I ordered just a couple of weeks ago. Should I still replace it with a downloaded copy (which would require getting another registration code)?

By opening two saved games, I have managed to determine approximately when Algernon lost his XP. Near the beginning of the lower level of the Pit of the Wyrm, Algernon was Level 39, had 49,692 XP, and had his next level coming at 50,700. Near the end of the Pit (at the altar next to the room with the Fury Crossbow), he was level 40, had 42,503 XP, and had his next level coming at 52,000. Somewhere between the entrance to the lower Pit and that altar, Algernon (and only Algernon) lost about 10,000 XP -- and I didn't fight a single undead the entire time. 10,000 XP lost in a single part of one dungeon? About 15%-20% of all the XP I had accumulated throughout the entire game? No, that's ridiculous. There must be a bug. What sort of insane game designer would allow monsters to dock you 10,000 XP in less than 100 yards of dungeon?

Quote: Originally written by Niemand: There are several undead which do this , I believe. If you see a line print out that says "Algernon is drained" when fighting one of these, it means that some of his xp has been stolen. Enough to steal 10,000 XP (as compared to Ma Gwai)? That's utterly ridiculous, though. Well, I guess there's nothing I can do about it. If someone could tell me which undead do this and how many experience points are typically stolen, that could help me figure this out. As it is, having a fighter who is going to be almost ten levels lower than everyone else is kind of annoying. Very annoying, actually. As far along as I may be, I think I'm going to start the game over again and make sure not to get hit by these undead, because I find this pretty upsetting.

Quote: Originally written by Wonko The Sane: Did he actually lose levels? If it's just uneven experience, there might be an explanation. I think that the person who actually does the killing gets more experience than someone who just sits there. The Ma Gwai character seems more of a "tank" that you would send out to beat up things and get beat up upon. But then again, I know hardly anything about A3. He lost levels. I know he got to level 43, and besides, his next level wouldn't be 7,000 XP+ away in any case, no matter what level he was. Algernon gets as many kills as Ma Gwai, if not more -- at the very least, they're about even. Certainly not 4 levels of difference; if anyone should be behind, it would be Ma Gwai.

So I looked at one of my character info screens -- for my fighter character, Algernon -- and noticed that somewhere along the line, he lost four levels and thousands of experience points. Just to add a little spice to the mix, the game still says that he needs 52,000 XP to level up. Considering that he only has about 46,000 at this point, that could take a long time. Another character in the party, Ma Gwai, has an XP penalty of 30% -- the same as Algernon. Yet he appears to be progressing normally. None of my characters have ever died (well, not without me re-loading a save file, anyway), nor have I witnessed any other event that would cause this to occur. I'm running Avernum 3 v. 1.1.4, on a 600 mHz G3 Mac with OS X 10.3.9 installed. I've never had a problem before now, certainly nothing like this. It's pretty much a game-ruiner for me. As proof (and so that you'll know what you're looking at), I have uploaded two images: one of Algernon's info screen, and one of Ma Gwai's info screen. As I mentioned before, Ma Gwai and Algernon have identical XP penalties, 30% each, and they've all been in the same fights. Both of the other characters in the party are at the proper level and experience, too.

Quote: Originally written by Subliminal Message Here: You get a perfect bell curve and your chance of getting a 3 or an 18 is 1/216, or less than half of a percent. Correct. The total number of combinations possible on 3d6 is, of course, (6 * 6 * 6), or (6^3). Since there is only a single combination that wil give you 3 or 18 (111 or 666), it's safe to assume that the ratio is 216:1, or a .4629% probability (1 divided by 216). That's the easy part. The challenge is in deciphering how many combinations are possible for 4 and 17, 5 and 16, 6 and 15, et cetera. Unless you know a convenient formula (I don't), you have to figure it out by trial and error. Or you can look it up online. After I did all of the math for 3d6 probabilities myself, I discovered that a Web site had a page up that listed them all . . .

I am a roleplaying game packrat. I don't save every item, but I do save a lot of them. I still have nearly every single potion I've ever found (saving them for a rainy day), and I store many pieces of equipment which might come in handy later on (items that protect from petrification, for example, but which I don't wear regularly). I also save all the Spell Tomes and area maps, as well as collectible items which can be sold to specific people (Unicorn Horns, Research Tomes, Pen & Ink, Papyrus, etc.). And I still have absolutely every single alcehmical ingredient I have ever found. Suffice it to say, I have a lot of items stored in Hawke's Manse. I have cleared all the nonessential items from that area (pillows, candles, wine, ale) to make sure none of the important stuff vanishes. I have several questions: 1.) The caretaker says that any item stored in Hawke's Manse will be safe. Does that mean I can store an unlimited number of items? 2.) Up to now, I have been assuming that a stack of items counts as a single item in the eyes of the game. I have quite a few large stacks (herbs and potions), so I'm assuming I'm correct. 3.) Just how many items can be safely stored in one place? Thank you for any feedback.

Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: That's binary. The question is how many bits (ones and zeros) Jeff allotted to store the numbers. If he allotted 16 binary spaces, the numbers can go up to around 64,000. If he allotted 17 spaces, the numbers can go up to around 129,000. This makes a little more sense if you think about it with fewer numbers. If you've got two spaces allotted, your numbers can go up to (2^2)-1=3. 00 = 0 01 = 1 10 = 2 11 = 3 If you've got three spaces allotted, your numbers can go up to (2^3)-1=7: 000 = 0 001 = 1 010 = 2 011 = 3 100 = 4 101 = 5 110 = 6 111 = 7 The pattern continues. Ah yes, I see! Because each time you add a slot, the number of possible combinations doubles. This is one aspect of mathematics which I'm very good at. I play tabletop roleplaying games, and I also design them -- which means that I need to be able to calculate the percentage chance of getting any given number combination on a given set of dice. Take three six-sided dice (3d6), for example. When you roll them, you can get any result from 3 to 18, but what are the odds of getting any specific number from 3-18? Figuring that out is complicated, and I have it all written down. Suffice it to say that 10 and 11 will be the most common numbers rolled, while 3 and 18 each have ~1% chance of appearing (because there is only one combination of all three dice that gives these numbers). The closer you get to 3 or 18, the lower your chances of rolling the number.

Quote: Originally written by Micawber: Yeah, the 64k was illustrative rather than precise; if the limit was indeed of this magnitude it would be 65536 (=2^16). Is that hexadecimal? I'm great at practical/intuitive mathematics (calculating distances, tabulating finances, conversion formulas, et cetera), but my skill at advanced math and especially my knowledge of mathematical terminology leaves much to be desired. I know that the formula above translates to "two to the sixteenth power", or "two multiplied by itself sixteen times in a row", but I'm not sure how that fits into computer programming or what category of mathematics it falls under. In any case, you seem pretty knowledgeable about the subject. Quote: In terms of game experience, my PCs in Avernum 3 have definitely exceeded 70,000 experience, so I would guess that this particular number has a maximum ~128k or even higher. Whatever. Of course . . . because the next power of 2 after (2^16) would be (2^17), or ~128k. Heck, I guess I learned something in school after all! Quote: To get back to the original question, for purely practical reasons there does have to be a limit of some sort, but I do think the limit Jeff has set in all three Avernum games is annoyingly and unnecessarily low. I know! I have never -- NEVER -- exceeded 50,000 coins in the bank. And I sell every piece of loot I can get my hands on (unless it's too cheap to bother with). I make multiple trips, carting it all to the highest bidder (usually Grove the magical weaponsmith). A limit of 100,000 -- or even 50,000 or 60,000 -- would have been more than sufficient.

Quote: Originally written by IT .: PS Old Scratch you never answered my questoin: are you from the ambrosia boards? Yes, I am also registered on the Ambrosia Software boards. I very much enjoy Escape Velocity: Nova; I think it could benefit from a few changes and improvements, but overall it's a wonderful game. The various add-ons and Total Conversion plug-ins don't hurt the enjoyment factor, either (although really there are only Polycon and the ports of the previous two Escape Velocities at the moment). Hopefully, some of the TCs that have been in the works for a while will be coming out soon.

Happily, I seem to be having better luck with the Unholy Wyrms this time around. By casting a couple of Arcane Shields and . . . er, that protective priest spell (I use it so often I forget what it's called), along with Haste and War Blessing, I can pull the Unholy Wyrms one at a time and dispatch them with my fighter. A little backup from the archer and the mage (at a safe distance), not to mention constant healing from the priest, also helps a great deal. It may have been using Arcane Shield which tipped the scales in my favor; I was going to try that anyway, but thanks for suggesting it. I had been shying away from using it in the Pit because it damages enemies, which can cause a lot of Abyssal Slimes to spawn very quickly.

There is no way (save cheating) anyone could defeat Avernum 3 without a mage and a priest, and a strong fighter is pretty much a given. The choice of your fourth character is optional, but an archer is pretty necessary too, because there have been many times when I've really depended on my archer. On the one hand, it's sort of limiting; choosing to make an all-sorcerer, all-archer or all-fighter party would be certain death. An all warrior-priest party might be able to hack it, granted, but it wouldn't be a sure thing. On the other hand, it's nice to see the characters' co-dependence. My archer is my least-necessary character, but he is still very useful, with high Nature Lore and passable defensive and melee skills. Has anyone else had any luck with a non-standard party?

Quote: Originally written by St. Ashby the Martyr: I think the Wyms breathe darkness (magic). I remember that they use the acid damage sound and graphic, but I don't think they actually give the acid-coated status effect. They give enfeebling instead, right? I suggest invulnerability if the fight is troubling you, but that doesn't necessarily mean Invulnerability Potions (read as: what Neimand said). Yeah, I did read that "Unholy Wyrm breathes darkness" during the fight. However, the text always says tht the damage comes from acid . . . I suppose using an acid graphic requires that message text to appear, which is what confused me. I don't think Magic Resistance helps, either, since Firewalker Rings give you that too. I'm no slacker when it comes to tactics, either. The second most difficult fight I've run into was that town full of Rakshasas (nine or ten of them, at any rate), and I only had to reload a few times before defeating them. These critters are insanely more difficult. If nothing else works, I suppose I'll try the Invulnerability Potions.

Quote: Originally written by Niemand: The acid protection or lack thereof thing is weird. I'm afraid that I can't remember having any particular trouble with this fight myself. Is Arcane Shield any help to you? It might help you to not die as quickly. Sanctuary might come in handy too, so that they shouldn't be able to attack you until you hit them. You didn't have any trouble with that fight? Wowzers . . . they overpower me in the same fashion that I overpower Ursagi: instantly and with extreme prejudice. I haven't tried Arcane Shield yet, but I will. Also, I don't think there's a Sanctuary spell in A3, because I know all forty spells already at level 2, or in some cases higher. If Arcane Shield doesn't protect me from their breath weapons, nothing else I know of will. I suspect the Acid Resistance only applies to the status effect (the kind you get from slugs and Fetid Zombies and damages you each round), not pure acid damage . . . which is pretty stupid, since Fire Resistance protects against very similar breath weapons.

Okay, so I purchased the directions to the Pit of the Wyrm for 1,000 coins -- chump change. Eventually, I found the Pit, and have been waging a very long campaign, fighting my way through Augmented Giants and Abyssal Slimes to get to the lower level of the Pit, and then subsequently using insane hit-and-run tactics involving (alternately) hordes of summoned creatures to fight the Dark Wyrms and careful planning to fight the numerous Abyssal Slimes. After much effort, I've come to a bend containing four Unholy Wyrms. I attempted to launch some sort of an assault, and was thwarted by their insane breath weapons, which do 115+ acid damage per shot; they get two shots per turn to boot, so that's quite a lot. I says to myself, "Self, you're taking acid damage. You already have a couple of Firewalker Rings, so just buy a Basic Charm, slap it on your fighter, and send him over there with the Wyrmslayer and many enchantments to deal out some death." I bought the Basic Charm, which cranked Algernon's (my fighter) Acid Resistance up to 90%. That means I should be taking far less damage from their acid breath weapons, right? WRONG. When I put my plan into motion, the damage was the same as before. So now, I have four level 40 characters with great equipment, but unfortunately no way to protect them from a seemingly unbeatable breath weapon. I can't even summon creatures fast enough to prevent instant death. My first question is, why doesn't Acid Resistance protect against acid damage? It doesn't, and that's incredibly stupid. And my second question: I'm going to have to burn up some invulnerability potions, aren't I? Because no amount of leveling up (and I don't have too far to go, really) will protect me from those breath weapons.

Quote: Originally written by Micawber: From a programming point of view, the numerical values are finite and have a fixed length. In the Avernum code I think I am right in saying that no number can exceed 64,000 values. The game enforces a cap in order to avoid weird errors - like negative gold (which has been known to happen in the Exile games). Does that mean my characters can't accrue more than 64,000 experience points? That worries me a bit, since all of them have sizeable experience point penalties -- 35%, 30%, 30%, and 25%, to be exact. I thought that you gained a level for every 1,000 experience points, but the numbers don't seem to add up. Instead of docking XP as they are distributed, the game seems to give you full XP and simply increase the number of XP needed to reach the next level; that is, I'll have 44,000 XP but the character's level will be in the late thirties (instead of 44). If 64,000 is the value limit, then that really sucks, because all of my characters will only be able to get to level 40-something. The game documentation says that the number of levels you can attain are effectively unlimited . . . was that untrue?

Yes, but from a game designer's standpoint, why have a cap at all? I've found Avernum 3 to be wonderfully open-ended, and was unpleasantly surprised when a few hundred of my coins vanished into the post-15,000 abyss . . . no warning, no explanation, just BAM. It took me a moment to realize what must have happened. The "First Bank of Avernum" idea is great, and it's easy to implement, too, so I don't mind the cap that much. And there's another mystery: One can open up the character editor to get one's self out of a tight spot or to cheat shamelessly. (I only use it for "storing" coins and extricating myself from truly insurmountable situations.) Since one can give oneself lots of money for free if one wanted, why bother with an in-game cap? As with the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know. Actually, I've heard that someone did an experiment to discover the secret of Tootsie Pops, but I forget how many licks they came up with.

Quote: Originally written by That hem hath holpen: There're isn't a very common contraction. It has the same number of syllables as "there are," which means the usual reason for a contraction is gone. Unless you love schwas, there's simply no incentive to use it. —Alorael, who are in favor of prescriptivisms matter not how many person use unusual structure. If one eschews the contraction "there're", then the only grammatically correct alternative is to use "there are" in its stead. The incentive for using correct grammar is . . . well, there isn't one just lately in our society; the Internet is a prime example of modern laxity in such matters. In earlier generations, the incentive was not looking like a doofus in front of your peers, but that pressure has gone up the primordial estuary without a means of locomotion (i.e., no one cares anymore).

Quote: Originally written by Micawber: I'm not saying that's what Jeff is doing in this case; but the use of "there's" with a plural is fairly common in speech. Yes, it has become quite a common blunder these days . . . in fact, I do it myself from time to time. I always catch myself and do a bit of self-flagellation, because it's a bad habit to get into. I've heard all kinds of people doing it, from TV weathermen to the clerk at the local Harris Teeter; it's pretty rampant. Still wrong, though, local dialects notwithstanding.

First of all, I'd like to apologize for starting a fairly trivial topic, but I've noticed something about Avernum 3 (and Kelandon's Web site, which is what piqued me -- no offense intended) that I would like to point out publically. Throughout the entire game so far, the contraction "there's" (there is) has consistently been used in place of "there are" (or "there're") when the latter phrasing is called for. I can't give you an exact example from the game because I don't remember any offhand, but this is the gist of it: "There's three ogres in the chamber to the north." This replacement of "there're" with "there's" is becoming rampant in American society, mainly in speech but also occasionally in writing and literature. For the most part, the grammar and vocabulary used in Avernum 3 is excellent, and the typos few and far between -- an astonishing feat for a game with so much dialogue. Spiderweb Studios does need to learn the nuances of a certain pair of contractions, though.

First of all, I'd like to say that Avernum 3 is a great game, and I fully expect that the first two and Blades of Avernum will follow suit (I got them all on CD-ROM quite recently). While I was playing Avernum 3, the Xian Skull made an oblique reference to the Fallout series of role-playing games (a long-time favorite of mine; I still play them to this day), and Avernum comes quite close to matching the fun factor of the great and holy Fallout. Fallout had more attitude and atmosphere, and it was certainly prettier, but Avernum has a lot of depth and a much larger world. Anyway, Avernum 4 was actually the first Avernum game I played, but I left it to start Avernum 3 . . . and I have to say that Avernum 3 is a better game than Avernum 4. I believe the Geneforge engine does detract from an Avernum game, because Avernum 3 seems to have a lot more variety and depth. In 4, you can't make your own potions, you can train automatically and for free, there are fewer character models (which don't match the portraits), and it just seems more barren in general. That's not to say it isn't fun. I'm sure I'll go back to 4 eventually, but I don't think the Geneforge engine does it justice.

Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Dikiyoba likes it too. Perhaps Dikiyoba will see the adventurers in the next section? I find it amusing and intriguing that Dikiyoba chooses to refer to him or her self in the third person; a nice touch would be to also throw in an imperial "we" from time to time for variety. It's a practice which reminds me of a fairly recent ex-U.S. Presidential candidate. You'll have to guess his name, but I'll give you a hint: He's old, and his last name is identical to that of a popular brand of market produce. In answer to the question posed by this topic, I have written several books. None were bestsellers by any stretch of the imagination, but they did get the bills paid. I might go into more detail later, but I'm currently addicted to Avernum 3 and wish to return to it with all due haste.

Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Whenever I hit the limit, I just make note of it and use the character editor to set my coins down to zero. Then if I ever need money, I edit some of it back. Dikiyoba calls it the First Avernum Bank. I did think of something similar to that after I started this topic. The only problem in my case is that I often employ the "spray and pray" method when selling large quantities of unneeded loot, simply mashing the "$" sign on all the loot items without even noting their cost first. (I usually try to find a merchant that gives a good resale price, but after that, it's all button-mashing.) However, your method is more sophisticated than what I had envisioned (simply recording all the excess over 15,000 and awarding myself the proper amount later after spending a bunch of cash), and should be sufficient for my needs. Thanks! Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: Buy spells in the middle of selling your items. You're going to be buying them anyway, and if your gold is maxing out, it's not like you're strapped for cash. Oh, trust me, I have done exactly that on many occasions . . . I've bought all the spells I can currently find and all of the potion recipes, too, not to mention a lot of alchemical herbs. (There are a few simple mage spells I still need to upgrade, but I'm currently not sure where their teacher is located.) ***** Why is the limit set so low? It's kind of a pain.

I seem to have run into an arbitrary coin limit: 15,000 (I'm registered, so it can't be that). This gets to be a severe inconvenience when I have a lot of loot to sell, almost 15,000 coins, and nothing nearby to spend my excess cash on to make room! I assume most Avernum 3 players will know about this already. Is there a way around it? It's getting to be really annoying.