The Lurker
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Originally Posted By: SlartyWhy the Shock Trooper in G4 would ever rate above the Servile is beyond me. G5 is a different story, but in G4 the Shock Trooper really was an inferior class.
Do remember that this was *before* I started this replay. I no longer rate the Shock Trooper above the servile.
Anyway, I kind of liked the Shock Trooper - okay, maybe she wasn't teh greatest character evar, but being able to fight alongside your creations was IMO pretty fun. -
Making special spells and abilities is pretty simple (although it *can* get tedious, it isn't nearly as complicated as, say, BoR) and nowhere near as buggy as it was in BoE (remember that San-Racku's special spells could turn allies against you due to an engine bug?).
Now, making *good* special spells, that's another story.
My current project (scheduled for mid or late 2009, 'cuz I'm slow) has enemies with special abilities, and will have at least two special spells for the player.
...And despite this, it's currently being balanced for parties that have just finished A Small Rebellion.
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Thuryl : The Unstable Firebolts were pretty much the only charged creations I found to be somewhat interesting. Heavy fire damage, AP boost. Fun to make, but only occasionally. Charged Vlish aren't that good. Charged Thahds... I believe I used them on one playthrough. Shock Tralls... What's the point of Charged War Tralls? War Tralls are mostly meat shields, and even then you're usually better off with Rots. So, yeah. Charged creations were an interesting idea, but they should have been more useful.
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Originally Posted By: ThurylPresumably Jeff decided it was a good idea to get rid of charged creations because everybody hated them.
When playing a Shock Trooper in GF4, I found some of the charged/unstable creations to be somewhat useful. At times. Rarely
. The problem with charged creations is that they just aren't much help in battles that you can't win in a few rounds.
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Well, maybe, sorta, yeah
. And since some powerful creations don't really require many points in Shaping, I will probably really kick butt when I get the Shapemaster Boots.If I can successfully charm the Titan's creations at the end of the game, the Servile just might end up becoming my second-favorite class (I'm still a big Lifecrafter fan right now).
EDIT : I believe part of why I found the Servile to be weak last time may have been because I wasn't nearly as careful with item management as I am now.
Right now I've got 6 Spellcraft, and I've yet to spend a skill point in that category.
I've just put a single point in Healing Craft, since my healing was really getting weak.
Just so you know, before this replay, this was how I rated characters :
1) Lifecrafter, by far. Even newbie players shouldn't have much trouble playing this class, and there's a fairly big margin of error with how you spend your skill points.
2) Infiltrator. I focus heavily on battle magic, mental magic, and melee, and usually ignore missiles.
3) Shock Trooper.
4) Servile. Yeah, I know, I had underestimated this class.

5) Warrior. I think most people will agree that the Warrior isn't all that great.
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Eh, balancing super-high-level scenarios shouldn't actually be much harder than balancing "normal" scenarios. It'd be somewhat different, but as Ackrovan said you could just rely on giving the party more powerul items and giving the monsters special abilities. Exodus shouldn't be used as an example, since there are too few high-level scenarios right now.
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The Maddened Rotwhatever, the Oozing Sentinel, Nakel, Eliza, and Shaftoe are no more. And I made the Legs of the Tyrant.
The first two were a joke. Channelers you know. I single-handedly defeated Nakel, since I didn't want the fight to be *too* easy.
Eliza was surprisingly easy after sabotaging her power spirals. Having a Drayk for this battle proved to be quite helpful.
Shaftoe required two Essence Pods to take down (hey, Dominate is a costly spell - gotta keep that golem charmed), but he wasn't too hard - I even killed him before he could use his aura attack. I fought him in melee, since his missile attacks are so powerful.
I can destroy both the Imprisoned Soul and the Soultaken Twins right now, but I think I'll wait until I can afford to use fewer Essence Pods.
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"One of them"? Why am I suddenly thinking of the Old Golem?

Anyway, yes, ghosts are super-bad for a singleton. Much like Mystithus (I probably could have beaten him/it without abusing the engine, but it would likely have taken quite a few reloads and blessing crystals for the avoidance enhancement, and I was feeling lazy).
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I'm very fond of the Shapemaster Boosts too, but they come very, very late in the game.
Anyway, quick update - the Western Rise is the only Chapter 2 area I haven't fully explored. I've finished looting Moseh's Bunker. I think I'll keep the Gruesome Charm, since I gain more skill points than I lose. Cormac has been defeated, he was a total pushover. Mihzera and Mose have left the fens. I can't foresee any problems in Chapter 3 thanks to the Channelers.
Killing the Forgotten One's merry band of ultra-powerful creatures is going to be painful. Don't you just hate enemies who slow you down?
I think I'll take care of Shaftoe and Eliza at some point in Chapter 3, once I get stronger spells.
Two interesting facts : although I fought Moseh, I told him I could repair him before he attacked, and he didn't drain me at all. After I killed Moseh, both Shaftoe and Eliza turned hostile, but not the Barrier Zone creations. Go figure.
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Oh, I will, Ackrovan.
I'm almost done with Chapter 2. I breezed through most of the areas, and when Daze didn't work often enough, (like against the Turabi Gate clawbugs), I just ran, went back to a friendly town, and finished off the remaining enemies.
Neither the Parasitic Shade nor the Malformed Drayk were much of a challenge. I weakened both from a distance with both missiles and spells, then finished them off in melee. Moseh is now dead, he was ridiculously easy.
Mind Alpha was somewhat troublesome, I'm glad the Plated Clawbugs don't attack if you're far enough away from the servant mind. I killed the Mind with Ice Spray spells, then dealt with the bugs in melee.
Mystithus would have been extremely difficult had it not been for the fact that I abused the engine's flaws to prevent two of his images from appearing.
For those who want to know, the weapons/spells I'm using right now are :
1) Oozing Blade (aka Munchkin Sword).
2) Venom, Acid, Submission thorns (I haven't used any submission thorns yet, but I have a feeling they're going to come in handy soon).
3) Firebolt, Burning Spray, Ice Spray, Lightning Aura, and to a lesser extent, Searer.
I think I will keep my Thahd Skin Tunic until I make an artifact, like, say, the Legs of the Tyrant.
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Hmm. It sounds like it hasn't always been that way. Interesting. How did Torment work in BoA? Did it increase Level too? It seemed to make the monsters' regeneration more efficient, as well as increase their hit rate and damage.
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Randomizer : Wingbolts aside, the last half of the game is more about endurance battles than about killing your enemies as fast as possible. As long as my hit rate remains decent (and I can't foresee any problems with it any time soon), I'll be satisfied.
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Well, I'll admit I kind of forgot most of the rest of the thread when I replied to your post. My mistake.
And you're absolutely right - I think playing excellent, technically impressive scenarios is far more likely to teach you how to design well than playing buggy, unbalanced scenarios.
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Whoops. I somehow managed to misread your post, Slarty. The reason why I'm using both battle magic and thrown missiles is this : variety. There is no submission bolt, and there is no lightning baton either. That said, it's not like I'm greatly increasing my battle magic skill or anything - right now I'm using the Ring of Eye's Purity, as I said before, and if necessary I will use a few other magic-boosting items.
(And Vlish is right - disintegrating helpless enemies is fun).

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Because Vlish said 1)I would need good sword skills and 2) he also said he likes missile weapons. Besides, fighting skills are cheap when you play as a servile. Missiles can be great, but they're just not as useful as melee in some fights (*cough*quickactionagainstwingbolts*cough*).
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So. After arguing with Delicious Vlish in the GF5 forum, I decided to try to make his "omnipotent" servile. He'll be very good at mental magic, and I want him to be a decent spellcaster when it comes to battle magic and blessing magic as well. He will also need to be good at swordfighting and throwing missiles. I will only put points in Healing Craft if absolutely necessary. I will not neglect Mechanics and Leadership, but I will try not to use them too much in the hardest battles (for example, I will try to fight Moseh without having the Alphas). I will also try not to put points in any Shaping stats. Instead, if I feel I need to make a decent creation, I will use boosting items like Delicious Vlish suggested.
My character will be Soulflayer. I want him to be a treacherous backstabber. He doesn't have particularly strong moral beliefs and will fight purely for the pleasure of kicking butt. He does not like Trakovites. He will side with the Shapers at first, but betray them once he reaches Moseh. I will play on Torment.
Soulflayer started with 6 in Mental Magic, so as to make Daze more powerful, and spent most of Chapter 1 putting points in Leadership, Mechanics, Melee, Missile, Parry, Quick Action, as well as one more point in every primary stat. My, isn't heavy armor painful. I will sure miss my high strength from the last time I played as a combat-heavy servile. I've become addicted to the Thahd Skin Tunic.
I actually dealt with Master Thell, despite siding with Crowley. I wouldn't want to miss the powerful sword, after all.
I didn't have any major problems completing Chapter 1, with the exception of a few optional fights. The shaper soldiers guarding Spirefield were very tough, and the battle required quite a few reloads. I had to make a Thahd to distract my enemies and I used Greenfang for a bit of extra power. Speaking of Greenfang, I actually think he can be decent with lots of Dexterity. The two Alphas in Chickweed Bridge were quite tough, but they could actually be dazed, which allowed be to heal between hits. The battle against Shaila's creations and the one that occurs when escorting Shaila were very easy. The Runewarded Thahds weren't actually all that bad after I hit them with Venom Thorns. I did need to use a few healing pods. The spinecores should never be a major problem as long as you take out their buds from afar before engaging them. The Shaper guarding the Cairn Gates was actually pretty powerful (I actually fought him *before* finishing the Dumping Pit), so I used an item to haste myself in order to make the fight easier.
I'm currently playing Chapter 2 - right now, I've got 9 Mental Magic, so that's one less problem to worry about. I also bought those two Spellcraft points from Burkes. Expensive but worth it, in my opinion. Oh, and I love the Ring of Eye's Purity. I had no problems when I fought everything that stood between me and the Illya Safehouse.
So far I've won three hard battles in Chapter 2 :
1) The one against the monsters in the Purity Workshop B. I had to lure the monsters into the healing pool room so I could beat them.
2) The one against Alwan's Wingbolts. I had to make two Thahds to distract the Wingbolts, and even then it wasn't easy. I think I got a bit lucky.
3) The one against Jadetree. Once again, I had to lure the enemies into the corner of the forest path so I could pick them off. I find that depending on how you make Jadetree get mad at you, she and her bandits may or may not give you a free turn before they attack.
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Thanks again. And don't worry, if my servile's adventures get interesting enough, I'll make a thread in the GF4 forum instead.

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Thanks for the advice - I've started the Mental Heavy servile replay. I'm almost done with Chapter 1 - I just have to finish the Dumping Pit.
Do you use missile weapons? I think they're pretty helpful right now, since my thorns and javelins hit more often than my firebolts.
I haven't had any real challenge so far, with the exception of those nasty shapers guarding Spirefield. And I hate these turrets.

Then again, the player isn't really supposed to attack them before the caravan quest, so I guess I was asking for it.
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The former, I think. Maybe a bit of both.

Seriously, I don't know what's the deal with mazes. I would probably strongly dislike a scenario where every dungeon would be a maze, but a good maze now and then? Not so much. There are ways to make mazes more interesting than mere twisting halls.
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Well. Now you really made me want to know more. I'm going to try a GF4 Servile again on Torment. I'll focus heavily on Mental Magic and Spellcraft. We'll see if it's really easier to play that way.
The reason why I'm being so skeptical is this : every time I played GF4, Mental Magic didn't really help in Big Boss fights (like Matala, the Old Golem, Scourge Vossizon, the Maddened Trall, and so on). But maybe there are ways to still be strong even if you play a mental-heavy servile. I'll just have to be more careful with how I spend my skill points.
Although I seriously doubt the Servile can be better than the Lifecrafter in any way (I never had any major problems while playing as a Lifecrafter, Torment or not), it could be than I underestimated it.
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Some people get it' date=' other people don't./quote']
I hate you.

Seriously, I'll try to find some time to replay GF4 with your strategy. If I do find some time, I'll let you know whether I get killed as badly as before. Happy?
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Well, mental magic in GF4 *is* strong... But only if you spend a *lot* of skill points to make it efficient. How do you manage to keep your servile physically strong if you focus on mental magic? Is mental magic less effective on Windows? I tried your crowd control strategy the very first time I played as a Servile, and was forced to change my strategy because I got, like, totally obliterated. That's why I think the Infiltrator is best if you want to use crowd control tactics. A servile has to waste a lot of skill points in mental magic to make it effective, especially on powerful magical creations like Wingbolts and Glaahks. The last few times I played as a servile, I never even bothered with mental magic and did just fine.
(Of course, maybe I didn't reload enough times when I tried the mental magic strategy... but I felt it was just too frustrating.)
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Still, due to the very nature of the mazes, I think they're just fine. Not having the mazes together would IMHO have reduced the surrealism in the dreams : "you sense the bitter taste of Bloodroot in your mouth/you see blackness/you smell sweat, blood and decay" and so on.
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Well, actually, that's exactly my problem with the servile. No real weakness, but no real strength either...
Even after getting used to distracting (and later in the game, damaging) my enemies with shaping, learning that Daze becomes useless later in the game, making my Servile physically pretty darn strong, hitting my enemies from afar when necessary...
...I came to the conclusion that I've seen more powerful classes. I mean, I did just fine with most dungeons, but it literally took me forever to understand how to make a Servile that could handle many Wingbolts at once, Matala, the Turabi Gate, the Western Morass... you get the idea.
Sometimes there's just nothing that can beat the good ol' "make many powerful creations and reduce everything to paste" shaper tactics.

The Chronicles of Soulflayer
in Geneforge Series
Posted
Well, Chapter 3 was a joke, and now it's over. On to Burwood Province. Before I killed Monarch, I bought two Create Kyshakk points from Shaper Dannell. It was expensive, but hey, there's at least one area in GF4 where you can get infinite money, so that's okay.
The Wingbolts guarding the road were surprisingly easy, I picked them off one at a time and didn't even have to use mind control. A few Ice Sprays spells took care of them.
Agent Yngrid was very easy, and I got her Infiltrator Charm.
That Shaper guarding Valeya Road was much trickier - I had to dispatch every hostile creation nearby before fighting him. Then I fought him in melee, dazing his worms when necssary.
The Brutal Wight was tough, so I made a Kyshakk to help me. The poor ghost literally killed itself on our Spine Shields.
Guardian Kantor wasn't much of a problem since I destroyed his rear guard before fighting him. However, this made the townspeople mad at me for some reason, and I forgot to buy the Demon's Bile before fighting Kantor. Ah well.
I charmed the creations guarding the path to the Maddened Trall, and they completely destroyed each other. It was very fun.
The Maddened Trall was difficult. I fought him in melee, since his missile attacks are quite dangerous. I wanted to charm the Kyshakks, but I didn't even have to - because he was cornered, he was unable to make the two Kyshakks. He did make the two Battle Alphas, however.
Guardian Dameron summoned two War Tralls while I was fighting him. I managed to charm one of them, making the fight much easier. And I have the Frozen Blade. Neat. I think I'll stick to the Oozing Blade most of the time though, I'm really fond of it.
Shaper Horis summoned a very powerful Burning Kyshakk while I was fighting her. I successfully charmed it, and she died in no time. Then I finished off the Burning Kyshakk in melee.
The Uberoozebeast took a while to die, but it wasn't too difficult. I killed it from a distance, since it does quite a bit of damage in melee. And I love the Ornkskin Gauntlets.
I managed to defeat both the Imprisoned Soul and the Soultaken Twins without using any Essence Pods. They were no match for me and my Kyshakk. I can kill the Old Golem, but once again, I'll wait until I'm a bit stronger. Wouldn't want to waste too many items, after all.
I gave two Puresteel Rings to Orois Blaze, but chose not to pay him for the (expensive) canisters. I just unlocked the three remaining doors intead.
I've got 8 Spellcraft right now due to various enhancements and items. I still haven't spent a single skill point on Spellcraft. Delicious Vlish was right - charm spells are great, but it takes a very powerful spellcaster to charm the most powerful creations, apparently.
I'm *still* using the Thahd Skin Tunic, but physical damage is starting to hurt. I may have to replace it with something that provides better protection.
And in case anyone wants to know, I'm using the Girdle of Genius from Southforge Citadel. Powerful mental spells can be pretty costly.
Ackrovan - I plan to make the Gloves of Savagery and Shapemaster Boots at some point. Maybe the Cloak of Shadows, too.