BenS

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel Well, there's a couple hours of my life that I'll never get back. Yes, I actually never finished the final fight on my second runthrough. (On my first runthrough, I went loyalist, so it wasn't an issue.) Not because it was too hard: I think I could have won. (This was only on hard, not on torment.) I had redbeard more than halfway down, and still had a handful of res scrolls and group heals and mass frenzies. But because it wasn't fun, and I realized I'd have to sink another huge bit of time in to finish. I need to think more carefully about what makes a fight fun for me, but I do like a challenge. I don't want an *easier* fight. Seems like you and I had the same experience. I played the 1st time through as a loyalist, but never got a chance to fight Beloch & Zephyrine w/out redoing too much of the end sections. So I tried again, still on Hard, beat them, and then went for Redbeard as a rebellious Hand. I had him pretty close, but ran out of resources, and at that point, the fight had taken way too long to want to attempt it again. And I lost my last character. My worry is that this fight is indeed too hard and/or long for most people (*) who will play this game. I've played every post-Exile game SW has ever done, and never had this kind of experience. It reminded me of those optional boss fights found in certain JPRPG's, for the hard-core types only. I know I could try it on "Normal", but at this point, my heart's not into doing it again a 3rd time. I'll just take the suboptimal ending (rebelled to a point but accepted a lowly post rather than openly challenging Redbeard) and be done w/ it. (*) My guess is a large proportion of those who succeeded at this are regular posters on these boards. That is, not a true demographic for the silent majority that play these games. Finally, you might not have beaten him either. His attacks, and those of his Soul Jars, seemed to get stronger as he got down to the lowest health levels. It was a war of attrition & resources I just couldn't deal w/. I think it was unfair for Jeff to gimp the Shamans (and I had 2) against the Soul Jars.

Well, there's a couple hours of my life that I'll never get back. I still lost, even w/ 5 characters, though I had him at pretty low health. That was so incredibly frustrating that I'm not sure I'm up to try it again. Had I designed this game, I would have made 2 changes to that final fight. One, a reward from beating Zephyrine that directly helped me in the fight against Redbeard. Two, in a similar vein, for siding w/ the rebels, Heart Miranda would have disabled 1 of the 4 soul pillar platforms, so at most I'd be dealing w/ 3 of them, instead of 4. Trying to take out Redbeard shouldn't be so demoralizing that it ruins the game for you. Also, the way the meeting w/ the 4 NPCs is done, most people would never guess they could use them all--when that was impossible for the full game. That needs to be waaay clearer!

Originally Posted By: FnordCola I seem to be the only one who noticed both secret switches the first time, but assumed you could only have three characters in your party like usual. The fight is straight-up unwinnable on hard with the PC and only two others. Um. I just got my ass kicked on Hard w/ a Shaman + Sevelin + Nathalie. I'm really hoping this is true, about getting to use all 4 other characters! Though I'm afraid that Shima & Jenell aren't equipped too well... If this isn't true, I'm not sure I'm up for another try at this fight. For a game that wants to push you to fight Redbeard, it sure seems like a near impossibility to accomplish that. I'll sleep on it and try again tomorrow.

I had posted a thanks and other comments earlier, but the boards ate my post. Shorter version. Thanks for the comments/answers. If I play through again, I'll make sure to attempt those optional boss fights. Randomizer: 1 of those 2 remaining "quest" chests would take about 15 keys w/ lockpick maxed out at 5. No way I'm wasting that many keys on one chest. I think Jeff should remove it from the game since he decided not to use it in a quest. Glad I wasn't the only one who thought the cleave function was off.

Just finished this tonight. This is a rambling post b/c I'm exhausted, so pardon the formatting... First SW game I've ever played on Hard. Mainly b/c I was worried from Jeff's blog that he was going to make the game easier than previous games. The difficulty definitely ramped up nicely before long! Lots to like/love in this game, w/ some minor criticisms/suggestions. Pros: Lively new game world to play in. Liked the PCs/NPCs. Plot twists galore. Rarely a sense of the right/wrong or good/evil dichotomy found in more simplistic RPGs. Love the skill tree concept in general; had a hard time distinguishing between what skills to take in earlier games. Nice variety of locales visited. Better inventory management! Liked the auto-heal function after all. Medals are fun (good luck w/ Steam Jeff!). Boss fights are a ton of fun, even if you get stomped the 1st time or two. Already dying for the sequel. Runestone enchantments. New & improved art. Scarabs! Cons: Not much to say here beyond some minor nitpicks. Would have liked a few more skill points if stuck w/ a hard level cap. Is it even possible to max out a 4th tier ability? The cleave function was wonky. Foes that would miss me b/c of my high defenses in a 1-on-1 fight would almost invariably hit that same character w/ a cleave. Also, I found it weird that a character 2 spaces away would be subject to a cleave, instead of just 1 space. Random items. If a character cannot use it (armor/weapon) or sell it (quest or otherwise), don't bother making it collectible (e.g., bags of meal, bars of iron) in the 1st place. Quests: would like dead quests to drop off (e.g., gave a certain totem to A instead of B...but quest remained). Zhethron's quest reward chests: I did everything he asked and he only opened 2 of 4 (3 of 5??) for me; even when his helper said he'd open another. Reusing the same sprites over and over. Only really bothered me when Redbeard's sprite was used for other bosses. Didn't like entering a map at only 1 location, regardless of where I left the map. Enchanted items should be worth more when you sell them. A few questions unresolved: Does playing on Hard difficulty result in any in-game benefits beyond modest bragging rights and a Medal post-game? Do the flaming sword and corrupted/acid halberd inflict fire & acid damage or just protect against those elements? Is B- the toughest fight in the game? I fought everything except B-, Z- (frosty), and Redbeard. I tried B- at 23rd level and quickly realized he was way beyond me. W/ only 30 levels, and playing on Hard (got to get that medal!), I'm afraid of what it would take to beat him. Ok, time for some badly needed sleep. Thanks to Jeff for another great game. Edited: few things I forgot about.

So much for the late afternoon weekend release at the end of the month. I was really looking forward to diving into this game this weekend. Ah well, maybe next weekend.

(Reads Niemand's insightful reply. Lightbulb goes off at last.) (Mind blown). Now I get it! But I'll wait for the official announcement as you suggest, out of courtesy to Jeff's servers being hammered.

Originally Posted By: Chris I've just got the FTP mounted on my finder pointed to the mac downloads directory. In theory I know what you mean, but in practice...not so much. I guess my Mac skills aren't what I thought they were. Anyway, I appreciate the response. I'll continue to just check back here. I'm sure this thread will explode once it's out for all to see.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer Also Jeff places the game on the servers to test if the game can be downloaded before announcing that it's available. So you will see players posting that they downloaded it hours before the announcement and this page getting updated. How do players know to get it from the servers before it's announced?? Anyway, I've been waiting patiently for the last year for this game, and now it's the weekend, and I'm dying to get it and get started! I guess I'll just check the main page and this forum thread repeatedly this weekend.

Agreed. I shouldn't have characterized the unreachable switch as "in" the Lair of the Scourge; but it was close by to the west.

Hmm, the obvious escaped me. Tool Use. But the other switch I believe was confirmed in another thread as being unreachable (it's the one in the area where you fight all the eyebeasts & gazers, before approaching the dying Nephil warrior).

This was the 1st Avernum game where I tried to play through w/ no traits (and thus no exp penalties). 3 humans & a slith. The humans were I think 48th level by the end of the game; the slith a few levels behind.

There is a switch in the Lair of the Scourge that I was unable to use. Two in fact. One you can see and can't reach, the other--while fighting through the Slith Defenders on the tiered terraces--you can touch but not activate. I had 18 Nature Lore w/ items included, and still got: "You think there is a concealed control here, but you can't figure out how to get it to work." If both were indeed decoys, I found them annoying as such.

Too bad I'm such a completionist freak. Oh well, not this game. Now I'll just have to take out my frustrations on those Honeycomb scum.

Who exactly gives the Honeycomb Delivery quest out of Silvar? If it's the Skribbane dealers down in the sewers, I'll never get it b/c I killed them all. But when I talked to them, they didn't give me a choice for a quest, so I figured they didn't need to keep living any longer. If this is confirmed, I'll go back to the Honeycomb and wipe out that nest of varmints... Thanks in advance.

Ok, thanks.

Or am I remembering something from a different SW game?

I think there are 2 mistakes in this list. Anatomy: under Anatomy you need to buy 4 Intelligence, but under Intelligence, you need to buy only 2. Resistance: under Resistance you need to buy 4 Endurance, but under Endurance, you need to buy 6 pts. If no one updates, I'll try to figure these out in-game. Thanks for the great list. I always miss out on these secret skills b/c I'm pumping pts into main attributes and ignoring others (e.g., I never get Anatomy b/c I'd never think to spend precious sp on Int for my fighter-types).

I had the same problem. You need to get the key from Astoria after the assassination attempt. Talk to her, after you searched the assassin's room, and she should give you the key that will get you in there.

I must be missing something. Where do you order the hint book, printed or otherwise? The order page only lists the game itself.

Looks like I completely misunderstood how the geas was supposed to affect me

Quote: Originally written by nearart: Can't you fulfill Shafrir's request for the Anama scrolls first, which he gives you copies of to hand out, and then give a copy to Gladwell. Or will Gladwell only accept the originals? I don't see how this would work. If you have the geas from Gladwell, you can't leave the Anama lands (i.e., go into new areas). Shafrir doesn't appear until the Azure Gallery, 2 areas later. My problem w/ the scrolls was different. I wanted to retrieve them later in the game after I killed Gladwell, and then either give them to Shafrir, Ruth, or Melanchion. But the game doesn't allow that.

I forgot to mention in my other thread--about finishing the game--that the new way of having secret doors is way, waaaay preferable to the old "walk into every 10x10' wall space you can find. That was too much...

I think I stood there and let them pummel me, but I also had my 2 summoned creatures to act as (short-lived) distractions. Buff spells, and I think at least 1 Invulnerability potion per character. I didn't realize we had the option of killing them to make them stop beating me I guess I thought I'd fail the test that way. Anyway, one of many harrowing moments in this great game...

Slightly on-topic, I wondered why, if you turned over the Anama scrolls to Gladwell, and then killed him later in the game, you couldn't just recover them as loot somewhere in his complex and use them either for Shafrir or Melanchion?