Goldengirl

And which sides did you choose, grasshopper?

I'm proud to say that I'm consistent with my messages. Awakened fail, which seemed inevitable looking back, then turn to the next best thing ideologically, the Rebels. People are really so quick to go to the bad when viewing the Rebels, painting them with the same broadbrush as the Drakons.

For example, in Southforge Citadel, there is a creation care center where a wounded fyora, Torchlight the Wounded Fyora, and Greenfand are at. The keeper there even says that Torchlight is too weak to go on assaults. A similar scene is seen in the Illya Safehouse, where it says that "lifecrafters generally go to greater means than Shapers to heal there creations..."

And do the Shapers do these things? No. Do the Rebels torture their captives like the Shapers do? No, as evidenced by Miranda, who's only greivance was thirst. Do the Rebels brainwash their Serviles? No, unlike the Shapers. Do the Rebels publically display their defeated or misbehaving off on wooden poles and shackles? No, unlike the Shapers.

I've been keeping track of what people are saying about their reasons for supporting the Shapers/Rebellion are. From what I can see, the common loyalist citizen is brainwashed into supporting the Shapers in their crusade against rogues and terrorists, and just like the sheer stability of the Shapers. On the other side, the Rebels commonly see have simple to severe grievances with the Shapers, be it the treatment of the Creations, a famine they didn't cure, not helping their poor towns, etc.

Before any of you try pulling up the Unbound, realize this: the Rebels were desperate, with, as General Crowley put it in the Forsaken Camp, "Oh yes! The constant losses, of men, of territory, of supplies. Truly the hallmarks of success." And yet, hypocrisy abounds. When the Unbound are released, the Shapers reply in kind with their own monstrosities, on par with the Drakon's creations. And when the Shapers win, as most of you would have them do, the creations are condemned to much worse conditions, and everyone else gets the failure of Terrestia driven into their mind, putting a futility into any planned uprising.

I think I was going somewhere when I started this. But anyways, I support the Rebels over the Shapers, even though I take the Trakovite ending optimally.

Not easily. And besides, where'd he get the music? If it's good enough to merit including, it would cost money. How 'bout you just listen to your own music while playing, okay lad?

Of course, this is all going to be put out of date when Jeff makes even more creations in Geneforge V. And it's already pretty invalid because the first one only had PC-Shapable creations.

 

Anyways, Drayks win for being the forefathers of the Drakons, the only hope for a successful Rebellion, as well as being the leaders of the Counter-Rebellion, strong enough to fight the foul Drakons back into submission.

The Takers aren't the Rebels. The Rebels are successors of the Takers and Awakened. Neither are the Obeyers equating to Shapers. You see, the Obeyers actually reformed the Shaper idea to something more palpable, intelligent serviles supporting the Shapers out of choice. Sure, it's still sickening, but it's an improvement.

 

At the beginning, G1 and G2, I was a staunch supporter of the Awakened. Unfortunately, both sides proved this to be mere idealism at the time, not unlike Trakovism during G4. Going into G3, I supported those that actually had a shot at liberating the Serviles, being the Rebels. Then, in our final installment so far, I fancy myself a Trako-Rebel. I still fight to try and liberate the Serviles and Humans, but I took a Trakovite ending first. Weaken both oppressors of the Proletariat, one by smashing the Shaper's resistance and the other by putting their greatest weapon at the mercy of the Servile Mechanics. Plus, being staunch Rebel up to that point, I even get to live.

This a family-friendly forum, you twit.

Add this to number one and you'll be set:

"1. Contains the Geneforge creation Artila, and sounds like Hillary."

So, from what I can gather, you can play as a Shaper or Rebel from the start, then convert? And five different factions? Of course, there are multiple endings for each... the sheer replaying possibilities brings a tear to my eye.

 

Now, disregard this section, Jeff. I'm going to go on a whim and say the five factions are Awakened, (the Human Rebellion) Shapers, Takers, (Hardcore Rebels, Drakons) Trakovites, and maybe a loose conglomeration of Barzite/Tullegolite* like characters. (A faction of Monarchs!)

 

*Actually naming them the Tullegolites would be very interesting...

I suggest that, when completed, you should give this game to JV. Depending on the quality, it could either be a fun little arcade game for an intro to Geneforge tactics, or SubTerra for Spidweb. Good luck anyways.

Timid Wolf over here's "arguement" fails. Let's see why.

 

Scenario One:

 

Deep in the Other Continent, an enterprising Shaper University is running a bakery with specially Shaped bread that doesn't go bad. Of course, the Shapers don't do the actually work in the blazing bakery, that's for the Serviles. From the Other Continent, a caravan brings the magical bread to Terrestia. Here, they are sold first to the Army, then to the civilians. One of the loyalist soldiers with this bread makes it to Aziraph Camp Gamma, and dies scouting around the Rebel Camp. His killer, a Rebel, victoriously takes it, as it is necessary to feed the soldiers. Therefore, the soldiers are being fed, in part, by the toiled slavings of enslaved Serviles in the Shaper Empire, and are passively supporting it.

 

Scenario Two:

 

The Unbound are released. Terror spreads across Western Terrestia as the Western Morass and the fortresses beyond fall. Mad Drakons kill everyone. The Shapers have to fight to push down minor insurrections and panicked rebellions. Eventually, these are wiped out either by the Unbound. Indiscriminately, the Drakons have killed brethren.

 

The second one is game canon. The first one is never explicitely stated, but fits easily.

 

EDIT:

 

Yes it is.

 

Allies: Did the Allies ruthlessly kill every German they got their hands on? Didn't think so. The Allies didn't even kill all of the Nazis, as they tolerated in the name of political freedom things like Neo-Nazis, and the old Nazis were allowed to surrender. Some were just horrid war criminals that needed to be killed.

 

*A Note: The connection between the Nazis and the Shapers is slight. Stop bringing it up. And I don't care about your supposed Slavic ancestors. You just keep dredging them and the Nazis up to appeal to emotion*

 

Americans: Are we killing every Islamic political group or Muslim? Didn't think so.

 

British: Is every Irishman a member of the IRA then?

 

Somewhat. No one's arguing that the Drayks and Drakons shouldn't fight back, and that the Shapers have the right to simply kill them all. Just because they do it doesn't mean it's right to do it.

 

And "highly aggressive"? I don't think so. If anything, the Rebels are being highly aggressive. They didn't have to go beyond the Ashen Isles, they didn't have to bring the horrors of this Great War to the far flung corners of Terrestia. But they did. Now the Shapers are just taking back their territory, where the civilians (Rocky Point, Dillame, Electrified Fields refugees) are glad for a return to normality.

Southforge: I counted three people by the time you attack, all civvies. Easiest of the lot.

Forsaken Shaper Camp: Ugh. To many initial defenders, and the powerful spawns. Clearly Jeff didn't want us messing around in here, which is reflected by the lack of quests requiring going full on into the camp, as well as the lack of any good gear. Hardest.

Therile Colony: Surprisingly difficult. Most everyone in the colony are civvies, but there are three to four elite guards here that were very annoying. How such a dirt-poor colony could afford them, I'll never know.

Eastern Checkpoint: Drunken Shapers don't fight that well.

Illya Safehouse: This is probably one of the most realistic so far, with a modest but still easily crushable defense. As a loyalist, I usually clear this out during or after Chapter Three.

Dillame: Definitely something to attempt in the later part of the game. A bunch of elite guards swarm upon initial attack, but mental magic is usually enough to scatter and destroy them. Ambush the creations fast, and pick off the seaside Reapers one by one. Perhaps start in a more secluded area, like the inn, where you have a bottle neck.

Rivergate: After the ordeals in Dillame, this is cake. Not a whole lot of movement on the map, or even swarming, so I could pick these guys off at my hearts content. Of course, where my Infiltrators burn this place to the ground with only a Drakon as aid, a Rebel army would probably sustain a lot of casualties here.

Turabi Gates: As this impenetrable stronghold was designed to be actually penetrable, I didn't have too much trouble here. Pick off the patrols before they can raise the alarm, then swarm. Mental magic doesn't work well enough here, so usually I just make some charged Wingbolts to escort me. Mages irritate me more than Shapers, so they usually go first, followed by the Shapers and foot soldiers respectively.

Western Rise: I always find myself drawn into a big battle here, and the terrain doesn't help me much. Mental magic helps scatter resistance, as does picking off the Reapers quick. Once the initial battle is done, the rest flows along pretty quickly.

Shaper Camp Gamma: The walls at the entrance from the north help a lot in stemming an initial onslaught. A bunch of baton fodder foot soldiers swarm, but they fall inevitably. Crowley, maybe due to illness, falls dead fast, but it's the Trainer to the east of him that I have to focus on more. Other than that, sinchey.

Aziraph Rebel Camp: Do I even have to say it? Kill the Spawners to prevent swarmage, and the rest of the place falls just like the Safehouse.

Derenton Freehold: Break the gates, kill the initial horde of soldiers. Pick off the Drakons at your leisure, and buff yourself up before confronting Litalia. She summons far too many quality creations, so I like to get her down as soon as possible.

Poryphra This is one of the tougher camps. Activate the alarm crystals one at a time, to deal with the garrisons. Then, go to either side of the docks, and activate those crystals to get the tralls out of the way. Then, get close to the docks and pick off the shock tralls and the Incantor. Then, buff yourself up and enter the docks. Tough fight that was.

Western Morass: Another of those easy impenetrable strongholds. I find that by killing the gate guards I get everyone to follow me to my battle place back in the swamps. Far from their spawns, they fall like dominoes here, en masse. Then, swoop in, have my Drakon handle the spawns while the PC cleans up the rest of the camp.

Quessa-Uss: By Chapter Five, there are no Drakons to fight! And in Chapter Four, if you try you get the auto-death. So, perhaps this is the easiest fight, with no guardians?

Quessa-Uss and Grayghost Gates: Just a bunch of Drakons, they die easily enough. Divide and conquer usually works.

Khima-Uss Enrage the Drakon, then mass madness. Kill Drakon quickly, and then trim back the cryodrayks. You'll be set after that.

Gesselin Freehold: Take this place room by room, and you'll be fine. They're just a bunch of Cryodrayks, after all.

Northforge Citadel: I've never actually tried this one without the Shapers at my back. But when you do, divide and conquer. PC fights the Gazer and co. up north with Miranda, and Sss-Thsss the Drakon handles Master Jared down south. PC and Miranda wrap up just in time to kill the last few foes.

 

EDIT: Forgot the Western Morass

Of the ones presented, it's a toss between Khima-Uss and Poryphra. In Poryphra, there was all sorts of wiggling around to thin the populace out before the final fight. But in Khima-Uss, you get swamped with Cryodrayks... that can be Strong Dazed and Dominated/Charmed (Whichever's higher, can't remember) to kill each other. After that, the only challenge is killing the Drakons.

 

Eventually, I chose Poryphra.

 

Derenton was actually pretty easy, if done properly. The Aziraph camps are easy to get swarmed in, so just take your time there. Then there's the Safehouse, clearable while in Chapter Three, and Dillame/Rivergate, which I clean up on my way to the Forsaken Camp. Southforge, by the time you can attack it, is by far the weakest of the camps. Which leaves the Forsaken Camp, the hardest of them all.

All of the new suggestions since the necromancy, will undoubtedly. Here's why.

 

Unbound Spawner: "You are now in combat. Unbound Spawner starts making a Pointfire Unbound. Unbound Spawner takes 2,000,000,000,000 magical damage. Unbound Spawner continues making a Pointfire Unbound. *A few rounds later* Unbound Spawner is still working on that Pointfire Unbound. Unbound Spawner takes 1 physical damage, dies."

 

Full-Powered Geneforge: Unlikely, but possible.

 

Drakon PC: Jeff said so. You can only be a Rebel. Overpowered. Too arrogant. There are a plethora of reasons.

 

Sholai: They're normal people, just foreigners. Normal people get crushed by both sides easily.

 

Lordofdc: That is insanely obvious. You do things that support the Shapers, you probably have to take the Shaoer ending. Et cetera. In fact, I don't even think you stated anything that wasn't in Geneforge since the beginning.

 

Stronger Force: Stronger than the 'One Shaper One Army'? Nothing short of an army of invading super-Unbound could do anything like that to make a continental wide truce. Besides, the whole game has been arcing up in an epic for the final conflict between the Shapers and Rebels.

Seconded. Man, sometimes I wish I could have one of those handy, instead of waiting for the trained professionals.

Collect twenty canisters to make it to the next level? Something like Subterra, with environmental problems that need to be solved to get the canisters.

Maybe before G4, but now that there's such a convenient weight system, there is absolutely no need. Anything more right now would defeat the purpose of a limited inventory entirely.

By the way, that animation was actually pretty annoying.

Drayks? Not so much. Drakons? Only if they win. While there are plenty of Drayks/Drakons that want to fight, fight, fight, the Drakons were "madenned by their losses" and pulled into the Grayghosts, and the Drayks were mostly just commanding the Humans.



Not really. The Drakons stated that they would "Protect the weak ones in the Grayghosts" after sending out the Unbound. Weak ones = Drayks, Serviles, and Humans.

Lepus timidus: Your arguements are fail. Stop trying, you only make the Rebels seem worse to everyone with half a brain.

Nope. High school reading would be the great Latin classics.

EDIT: The reason I'm reading the books now is simple, I'm planning. Using these books as a foundation for my One World State...

Animal Farm and Brave New World simultaneously. I'll through Nineteen Eighty-Four in the mix eventually. If only our societies were like that...

Fairy. We've got one of them. It's called the tutorial pop-ups. "This is a dagger. It's for killing your enemies. Eventually, you'll be able to get weapons that can kill even bigger enemies. For now though, you can use this dagger."

Grenades = Throwing Crystals.

Xel'Raga: All of the screens are interactive. The little energy things in G4 move when you click, you have a Shaping platform in G3, acid drops come off the pointer in G2, and everyone knows about G1. The return of the messages, or just better interactivity, would be nice though.

Avernum 5 for Windows barely just came out. It'll be a good year for now for Windows, a few months less for Mac.

Just a small addition. Just because they can Shape more Serviles, doesn't mean the Serviles could do the intended job. These guys are highly skilled mechanics, probably from Derenton Freehold. Because that is where the Servile Mechanics in the Fens were from. Anyways, just because the Drakons make new ones doesn't mean that they are skilled in mechanics.

I believe that the Drakons took the Unbound to the Western Morass, and said: "Go West". West being to the ends of Terrestia, possibly the other continent if they're something of a Asia-Africa connection, pre-Suez. Anyways, the Unbound are going far away, and not coming back. Most likely fighting until the last one dies. Meanwhile, the Drakons are weakened without a new generation of Unbound to make. Rebels from all over, and I suppose Trakovites and a few Shapers, would be able to attack the Drakons. Also, according to some Drakon or another, the humans would be brought into the Grayghosts for protection. So there you go.

Quessa-Uss and Northforge have the highest Drakon concentration, and they're both isolated. Rebellion in Khima-Uss and Gesselin Freehold would be vital. I think, if rapid enough, Khima-Uss could kill the handful of Drakons in their midst, and divide the Grayghosts. Gesselin Freehold and Frostwood could effectively isolate Northforge, where wave after wave of creations, Rotghroths and the like, could be sent to kill the Drakons. Quessa-Uss could be similarily taken.

Anyways, there is a chance that the Drakons can be destroyed. Not really sure about the Ashen Isles though.

EDIT: What does making nukes after WWII have to do with anything?

Yes. A several century trend, very slowly as they felt their subjects could be trusted. Besides, it states explicitely in the Shaper text that the Shapers crack down harshly on their creations. You can even see it in game, where the Shapers start using brainwashed Serviles, far less intelligent than any of the other Serviles in any of the other games. If you go with the Shaper ending, the Great Eastern Rebellion basically ends, and the Ashen Isles are left as a temporary freehold. So, the Shapers winning at this point might as well just be setting back the trend quite a bit.

Yes, but if the Rebels win, there is still a chance that freedom can be won. The Drayks are unified in their hatred, and Gesselin Freehold has already shown this up front. Many Serviles, like those at Khima-Uss, are also disenfranchised with the Drakon oligarchy. The Humans resent being shut out of their own Rebellion so decisively. And when the Drakons extend themselves over everything, they will recieve resistance. Mighty lifecrafters have shown they can kill even mighty Drakons like Salassar. Without Servile mechanics doing vital work, the Drakons can't rapidly make Unbound. Rebellion within and without of the Grayghosts will have Northforge and Quessa-Uss fall, if not suffer staggering casualties. The Ashen Isles would suffer similar losses as well. From there, the Drakons will either be put in their place, be eradicated, or suffer a massive pyrhhic victory. Or, a new Salassar will rise and the Drakons will become isolationist, and form a northern nation free from the others.

So their is hope. With the Great Eastern Rebellion squashed, there isn't much at all.

The War's effects only go on as long as the war does. In the Shaper ending, they crack down immensely, and the creations are even worse off than before.

And I highly doubt the Rebels are going to continue launching wave after wave of Unbound if they win. The Drakons don't like being with the "inferior" sides of the Rebellion, meaning that the Serviles, Drakons, Drayks, and Humans would all form into different countries, with Humans and Serviles sticking together, and the Drayks having a few citizens in the Human/Servile Nation.

Of course, that's basically speculation.