Goldengirl

My final word on the battle alpha, because I think the tangent has gone off too long. I don't know what makes Avernum's, or even Geneforge's, golems "higher end" than battle alphas, aside from just power. I also don't care too much. Battle alphas look cool, that's their main feature that I appreciate about them as nice. I cannot think of many things that look like battle alphas do. Sometimes, they can talk, which is also cool.

re: Dillame. No, I don't believe it was discussed at length, but many of the games hint at cool places that you then get to explore in other games. Valeya and Poryphra were also examples of that, now that I think of it. re: Battle Alphas. do they have the coolest name? No. But they are still cool, in my subjective opinion. re: Pilgrims. Sure, they were forcibly banished, but in the narrative I was thinking of people were forced to leave due to oppression as well. So, still forcibly ejected, just not to a specific place like Exile. I still think the comparison has some validity. In the end, both games obviously have aspects of fantasy genre and other aspects that are more or less unique. I don't think we can or will agree on which is more so; de gustibar non est disputandum.

I too agree with that characterization, though I disagree with Slarty on the unique backstory for Avernum. It's just a spin-off of oppressed pilgrims making a home in a new, dangerous land. It even has some of the same righteous overtones, though I wouldn't describe Formello or the Castle as a city on a hill. I don't know if Jeff originally intended to have each Geneforge game in a different location, or if he realized that as he went due to how the plot was pushing him, but I have to admit that it gives the games a little bit of freshness. I would have liked to revisit some places, of course, but it was also exciting getting to explore places that had been discussed at length in prior games, such as Dillame. I might quibble and say that the Geneforge setting is more unique with everything being creations, from many of the doors to the livestock and farm animals, but I'd be wrong. On the surface, yes, the setting is very generic (with a lot of swamps). The techno-bureaucracy is kinda a cool fantasy government that you don't see too often, though! I'm also not quite sure that some of the creations are as generic as Slarty says, but many of them - drayks, war tralls, clawbugs - are in fact. Battle alphas, vlish, Drakons (to an extent) are all pretty neat though!

I'll go out on a limb and say that Geneforge is still more unique. What do we have in Avernum? A generic kingdom with generic monsters and an evil oppressive empire, but this time it's in a cave. That gives some fun setting detail, like glowing moss and canyons, as well as some good reasons to cast the Empire as a evil, because of how awful it is to eat mushrooms and sick cow as your entire diet. Your team of adventurers fights demons, dragons, giants, bandits... The nephil and the slith are both cool and unique, especially as their societies are (violently) explored, at least, but their rudimentary idea is just "cat people" and "lizard people". It's not your standard romp through fantasy land, but it isn't too far, either. Later games have some unique improvements (crystal souls, the Anama) and some more generic additions (Vahnatai in general, Valorim). Geneforge has an abandoned, ruined magical laboratory / society. That's not the most unique setting, but the abandoned slave race that has independently formed into three distinct social groupings is. The Sholai, I feel like, are much more on the unique side in general though not totally unknown. My history is blurry, but I feel like the moral complexities that G1 got into were ahead of their time in gaming. The later explorations of Shaper society are pretty cool. Geneforge very well could have been a genre piece, if it stuck to Jeff's original plan of writing it as sci-fi, but as fantasy it breaks conventions. Avadon is the most generic.

For those who need it during stressful times like these, I hope everyone had plenty to drink. Stay hydrated!

Having not played Dragon Age, I don't know. If they are just there to watch over them, though, that doesn't seem equivalent. That's essentially what we're told that the Empire does, after all. The Anama specifically want a full prohibition on magic, within their community if not the world.

I had never really thought much about the disconnect between the two Empires we're told about. I always just chocked it up to Prazac being nice and Hawthorne I-III not as much, but there's still a disconnect. How did the Anama have so much influence over (slightly) more than an entire province, to the point where Ahonar was more important than the governor? That doesn't mesh very well with the line of thought that the Empire was just going around persecuting everyone. The Anama are another part of the Avernum world that really sets it apart, aside from the caves. I don't feel like I've seen any sort of equivalent in other games, aside from Jeff's Trakovites in Geneforge. My two cents, I don't see how tiny little Imperial Silvar (which would have been even smaller when Avernite Silvar was founded) could possibly have served as an inspiration.

My fault for defaulting to seven, the generic number for many fantasy things, rather than checking my memory more carefully. I really like the monster detective aspect of A3, the way that the plagues become a cross-continental private investigator case. I think, in fact, that mysteries combined with the exploration are where Jeff's storytelling really excels in his games. In a sense, all of X1 is a mystery, trying to figure out what's up in the caves. X2 has that aspect as well in the Vahnatai, leading to Alorael's favorite part: the Dark Waters. A4 less so, just because it seems so predictable after X3. A5 gets some of that back again with the cloak and dagger nature of the Darkside Loyalists and the chase. A6 though? I'm not so sure about that one. Geneforge 1 rose on that strength of mystery and exploration, but after that I think the series starts to lack those opportunities. Drypeak Valley is an early game mystery in G2 and the Rebels a vague but straightforward one in G3. The Trakovites and Monarch in G4 are interesting, but ultimately side shows; likewise with the identity of the PC in G5. It is perhaps no surprise that Geneforge is the fan favorite. I guess Avadon has some mystery, though I've never played the second one. Anyway, after that massive diversion, I think the only way that X3 can be redeemed is perhaps by mushing it with A4. Making the events simultaneous, perhaps? Amplify the role of the Anama? Things would get messy, and canon would really have to be altered. That said, I don't really see any other way to prevent Valorim from being a totally generic fantasy land populated with black smiths, cat people, and relatively creative plagues. Golems, giants, and alien beasts (of some form) may be common magical pests, but slimes, roaches, and troglodytes seem less so. EDIT: as one last addendum to this jumbled post, walking into Valorim was always one of my favorite moments in Jeff's games. The buzz of excitement in Fort Emergency, the uncertain menace of the Empire after the Empire War, the beginning text of the party stumbling into the sunlight, the startling contrast in scenery and background noise... It was riveting. I know that many folks don't care too much about X3 in terms of the series, or even the original trilogy, but that moment right there makes it one of my favorite.

There's at least some indication (A5, I want to say?) that some large monsters are magically occurring, therefor there are creatures who probably don't need food directly as nutrition. Do they exist off of naturally occurring magical fluctuations? Crystals? Pure hatred for Avernum? Who knows. It also is my guess that a lot of the larger fauna feed off of smaller fauna, rather than big plants. So, the basic mushrooms, lichens, and mosses that we hear endless description of are still the base of the ecosystem.

How would X3 set up? I'd think it would have to be a TV series (whereas the Empire War could pretty well be a movie), but even that doesn't as easily work. Seven plagues are a lot less easily managed than three endgame quests.

Fair enough, I've always been one to feel that movies / tv show adaptations / plays only need to have loose interpretations of text. And I'll readily admit I let my imagination go wild there. Not even my imagination could omit the GIFTS, though. We've all already harped on the main issue, that an open world game doesn't translate well into a linear plotline, so how we deal with that issue is just a matter of artistic interpretation. I'm sure there's enough debris in Avernum for there to be a gritty story.

I think the better approach would be to use the games as a source material and not stick too closely to the plot line. In Season 1, we have the righteous heroes be drafted into the army, facing success at liberating Formello from the Nephils and fighting on the front lines of the Slith War. They then see that the supposedly Righteous Freedom-Loving government of Avernum isn't what it seems, that in the (expanded) frontlines of the war, Avernites actively abuse Gnass and the Abyss in order to win, no matter the cost. They are saved, perhaps on multiple occassions, by the heroic mage Linda, who feeds their fears about the government by telling them her conspiracy theories that the Kingdom is Hawthorne's pawn, and hints that her magical research will be able to truly liberate the caves. Still, they fight the Sliths, infiltrate the castle, and defeat Sss-Thsss, honorably resigning from the army despite Micah's objections due to their paranoia about the government and their disgust with the abuses the army perpetrated during the war. In Season 2, they are still fighting, doing some of the better side quests and maybe hearing about (and trying to join?) the Scimitar and Erika. When things are looking promising, they are all of a sudden jerked back by vague news that a disaster has struck the Tower. Fearing that the corrupt King Micah may have assassinated their loyal friend Linda, they return, only to find a lot of demons. They valiantly fight and manage to avert the disaster, finding out that their friend was (supposedly) being controlled by demons the whole time and thus much of the information she fed them about how evil the Avernites are was a lie. Adze Haakai retreats, with ominous threats about Grah-Hoth and greater threats. In Season 3, Micah is once again a good guy, and is wishing the team luck as he furnishes them with a ship of some sort to pursue the demon threat. The first half of the season has the team pursuing and defeating Adze, going on to defeat Grah-Hoth, all the while learning more about Avernum's less recent history in the strange waters and sparsely populated caves they travel through. The Scimitar are active in this part, and at several crucial junctures the team makes Tough Moral Decisions about whether to help them or pursue the demons. The demon threat is handled, all the same, probably with suggestions that somehow Hawthorne (but actually Garzahd) has been attracting them to Avernum. The team then follows through with the assassination of Hawthorne. Nix the Final Gauntlet. If there's really a desire to have them stay on the surface, they can escape on foot (but with some sort of magical aid?) once they kill the Emperor.

I still haven't gotten around to playing A:CS through, but in A:EotP there is one whole extra town with some related quests. That said, Avernum 3: Ruined World is going to have all four Ermarian continents, lods of new details in Valorim, and the ability to go into both all of Avernum proper, the Vahnatai caves, and the northern caves from Avernum 5! That's the rumor that I heard, at least. Member numbers are a social construct, but I've been here long enough (yikes!) that I don't care anymore.

It's always a good session when one of the main highlights is a character taking a long time to admire a garbage truck.

Ah. But, you have to consider the following: that is not dead which cannot eternal lie. What strange aeons, indeed.

I mean, according to Freddy Nietzsche and some folks who like to back up his work with actual physics, the universe is recursive. We are all bound in a cycle, and thus we will face the eternal return of everything in the exact same manner as it has come and gone before.

I'm afraid I don't have anything helpful to say, RDR. But I do have a few general comments for the good of the board, including yourself. First, I'm right there with you; I've struggled with major depression for most of my life. Fortunately, for me, the pills do help somewhat. They aren't a magic fix, though, and life is still hard. Money is hard. Being a woman is hard. Being a trans woman is hard. Capitalism and patriarchy need to be abolished for me to ever feel like I'll have a real shot at happiness. Until then, I would ask that folks please use some sort of trigger warning for abuse and suicide. There are certainly many folks that have those issues. Second, for an increased general notice, it's good for everyone to have a therapist they can chat with. Of course, I heard this advice from a therapist, but nevertheless, I believe it. Life gets hard for everyone sometimes, regardless of if they have a mental illness or not. Loved ones die, careers suddenly get ended, disaster happens. It doesn't hurt to have a therapist to talk to, and it can actually really help.

I myself am thankful for sisterhood and sorority, neither of which are referring to proper noun sisters or Greek organizations.

Thanksgiving is today in the United States. As far is holiday go, it's pretty bad for a whole host of reasons. That said, the sentiment of giving thanks isn't bad at all. What are y'all thankful for?

Calendar'd. Hopefully the fault is due to the American holiday season.

Sorry I haven't filled the calendar yet, I've been Very Busy lately. Regardless, it's done now.

Calendar'd. Character sheet:

Humvee + Sundown + Batty, just friends on a roadtrip. I'm fine with recording, and I'd even be fine with those being posted here unless something else comes up. Should we have some sort of short summary of events, absent a written log?

Just an update, I got the postcards in the mail yesterday and they are absolutely gorgeous. The pictures don't do them justice.

I'm very very down. My voice also sucks.