spyderbytes

How big a value can you stuff into a creature's memory cells? I didn't see it listed in the docs... I'm looking for (semi-) persistent storage for the game ticks when a certain event happened, and it could easily be bigger than a SDF could hold. Only one creature in one town needs to know when it happened, and I would want it reset if the party leaves that town, anyway. Anyone have any suggestions, if memory cells won't hold it? -spyderbytes

The trap.txt script doesn't work "out of the box" as stated in the opening comments. It never checks to see if the party has a special item to help disarm it. To fix it, look for the two spots that say: Code: if (get_highest_skill(15) < get_mechanism_difficulty()) { print_str_color("The trap goes off!",2); and change them to: Code: if ((get_highest_skill(15) < get_mechanism_difficulty()) && (get_memory_cell(1) == 0 || (has_special_item(get_memory_cell(1)) == 0))) { print_str_color("The trap goes off!",2); Of course, if you never use a special item for disarming a trap, it won't matter. (NB: It's only the if that changed--I included the next line only to help establish context.) EDIT: Typo... had a misplaced close parenthesis that would have made the trap always disarm, even without the special item. -spyderbytes

And here's another... the docs say there's a void move_to_loc_x_y(short x, short y). Try to use it, though, and the application tells you it's an unknown call the moment it tries to load the script (both in 1.0 and the new beta). On a hunch, I shortened the call to move_to_loc(), and the application doesn't complain... until it's ready to run that line of code. Then it tells me wrong number/type of parameters. It doesn't work with the syntax above or move_to_loc(short char, short x, short y) (still wrong number/type). The really odd thing (of course) is that move_to_loc doesn't exist at all, as far as the docs are concerned. Yet it's there, if one only knew what sort of parms it expects... So... until this gets sorted out, anyone have any suggestions for getting an NPC to move to a specific location? Waypoints maybe? -syderbytes

Confused me, too. I suppose he's saying because it lists it as returning a short when it (in all likelihood, at least) has no return value. I suppose it MIGHT return a 0 or 1 based on success/failure; but if so, the docs don't elaborate. At any rate, I gather he was searching for something with a void return value, rather than a short. -spyderbytes

I've never tried using it from a terrain script, but in a town script, it appears to be one of those things that only works from a user-defined state, and not any of the predefined ones. I started a thread here when I was trying to call it from EXIT_STATE and couldn't make it work. -spyderbytes

Total shot in the dark here, but could it be choking on empty slots? I'd try putting a check to make sure there's something in the slot in front of the destroy_char_item() call, to see if that helps. If not, it definitely seems like a bug in either the implementation or documentation of the call... -spyderbytes EDIT: Left out a word.

I'd like to see either: A.) A "fade" parameter added to move_to_new_town(), so we could optionally make the screen fade to black before the move and fade from black in the new location; OR (better yet) B.) fade_to_black() and fade_from_black() added to the cutscene calls. It's the best way I know of to let the player quickly grasp the cutscene has changed the time and/or location. I can put up a dialog to "fill the gap", but it still feels rather odd to just suddenly be in the new town when you dismiss the dialog. To "feel" right, in a (more ) perfect world, my cutscene needs to fade to black, put up a dialog with brief text about the transition to the new location, then fade back in with the party in the new town. -spyderbytes

Yeah, that's what I was trying, but by the time you're in EXIT_STATE, it's too late for the move_to_new_town call to have any effect. I guess I'll expand my town boundaries by a square and then set up a special encounter running the full distance of them, one square inside. If the party goes that far outside the town gates, I guess I can safely assume they intend to leave instead of just poking around outside the walls. -spyderbytes

When the party attempts to leave my starting town for the first time, I want them to be, essentially, abducted and forcibly taken to a different town. I tried using the EXIT_STATE of my town script, but while I can run my nifty little cutscene of the abduction there without a hitch, I can't seem to make the party end up in the other town instead of the outdoors (or ANYWHERE other than the outdoors square they would normally exit to, for that matter). So... what's the best way to do this? Set up a special encounter on all the squares just inside the town boundary? I don't particularly like that solution, since the party could, at least theoretically, go there and turn around back to the town proper without intentions of exiting. Anyone have any suggestions for some other way I haven't thought of? -spyderbytes

If you want to assume I'm just some young pup who hasn't earned a right to run with the Big Dogs, fine. I don't know the Sooper Seekrit Handshake of the local branch of designers, so obviously my viewpoint is worthless. Players don't know what makes a scenario fun? Yeah, I'd agree with that... sometimes. As with any producer/consumer symbiosis, you give your players what they need, not what they say they want, if you want to achieve the most success. But players are durn good at pointing out what's NOT fun (though, of course, the specifics of what's not fun might vary from player to player). If you've successfully discovered a fanbase by producing scenarios where plot is the end-all and be-all, great and wonderful! Just don't make the mistake of assuming that your fanbase is the entire fanbase of BoE/BoA consumers. Or even that just because no one wrote you and said "this suxxors--there was too much plot!", that every last person who played it thought it was terrific. I've never advocated phat lewt as a substitute for plot. The irony here is that I'm sure most would place anything I design squarely in the "plot is god" camp, looking at it from the "outside". All I've ever said is that plot CAN BE (and has been, at least according to some) carried too far for the good of the fun of the scenario. I'd agree many game/scenario designers (and especially most first-timers) don't carry it far enough. So telling them plot is the single most important aspect might conceivably spur them to produce a scenario with just about the right amount of it. But that doesn't make it Universal Truth. Also, I never said "outdoors is bad", and if I read TM correctly, he didn't either. TOO MUCH outdoors is bad (as in vast stretches of outdoors with not enough happening in them). By definition 'too much' of ANYTHING is bad (including plot--or even my own 'god', gameplay, which I realize is a rather nebulous term that subsumes most everything, including plot ). Achieving a proper balance to make a scenario fun is a tricky thing, indeed. If you have a formula that works for achieving balance, more power to you! But don't assume your formula is the only one. I stand by my viewpoint that said balance is more important than plot, however, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. -spyderbytes

Hmmm... yeah, I'd think initialization would become QUITE expensive, especially considering the modest system requirements for the game (any Mac running 8.1 covers a lot of ground, meaning it's going to be running on a fair number of, face it, obsolete boxes). Still, it's worth bearing in mind for situations where nothing else will do. -spyderbytes

Quote: Originally written by Boots: Yet set the law after me, and I'll be happy to have a world with as many obscure nooks and crannies as I can find. Hehe... I'm working on a "push" scenario with just that premise, and the odd thing is, it will be farily smallish (as far as nooks and crannies go). Or, I should say I have both the "push" (the law is on your heiny) AND the "pull" (you have certain well laid out things you need to do to get the law off you, which you discover as you go along). It's also intended to be a comical scenario, however, so the "push" is never allowed to become all THAT dire (even though you'll be hanged if you're caught). Think of it as laughing all the way to the gallows. That IS an interesting recast, Boots. I think we would be well served to re-examine some of the more successful BoE scenarios (again, I never registered it, so I'm not the one to do that ) in light of of the "push vs. pull" debate. -spyderbytes

Just to clarify one further point (yes, I know I said I wasn't going to post more on this thread--so sue me ): I'm part of the BoA designers community, but not the BoE one (I never even registered BoE--I didn't have the time or interest in designing scenarios when it came out). And I certainly don't hold the view that "plot is god". We just had an entire thread (I suppose I should look it up, but I'm too lazy ) where several people disputed that it was. My point: it's entirely possible to become so involved in plot that you're asking the player to do things that aren't fun, simply to service the plot. The very fact that it services the plot might be fun to some, but not to me and others. As someone pointed out in that other thread, there are other vehicles better suited to strict story-telling (e.g., novels and movies). To me, games are about having fun. Insofar as plot advances that, it's well and good. But the moment it comes into contention with my fun, the plot had better "give" or I won't be playing that scenario any more. -spyderbytes

No one is jumping down anyone's throat here, Creator. I think Shyguy and I both expressed our differing opinions in a very civil manner. Heck, we both said it was a well-written and insightful article (or words to that effect), even. As to how to write an article "without expressing an opinion", neither of us said that's what should be done. I said an article is not an appropriate vehicle for PUSHING an opinion (to paraphrase myself). That can be avoided by a) stating the opposing opinion if/when you know one exists; and not stating an opinion in a way that makes it appear to be accepted fact to a casual reader. Drakefyre indeed does at least some of (a), which is what led me to say I think he was making an attempt to present a fair, unbiased article. However, I think he failed ( in a few places. AFAIK, the "opinions" you say TM is pushing in his article are accepted as fact by the community. Too much fighting IS bad. Too much outdoors IS bad. And a scenario without an ending (of some sort) would hardly be worth playing. No one that I know of holds a differing view of those things. So presenting them as "fact" is fine. However, there ARE several people around here who dispute that "plot is god". It CAN be, quite sucessfully. But it certainly doesn't have to be. Therefore, I would tend to think that a fair and balanced article shouldn't state plot is the most important thing in a scenario without clearly indicating that it's the author's opinion and others feel differently. The whole point of articles is to teach fledgling scenario designers the art of the craft. If we tell them "plot is god" without offering any opposing views, all we're ever likely to see coming down the pipe are plot-intensive scenarios. That would suit some around here just fine, I'm sure; but I, for one, would rather see a variety of things. I don't intend to get into a shouting match here. I've politely stated my view and will be moving along now. -spyderbytes

I hate to say this, as much as I respect you, Drakefyre, but this whole article DOES seem a bit more like an apologia for the supremacy of story than a general article on good scenario design. Statements like "Open-ended scenarios that follow the first model are more likely to be well-received, based on the high favor that a plot curries in the community" are not above dispute, given the heated debate we just had over just how important plot is. They're more likely to be well received by you, and some of the more vocal others around here; but I don't think we've established the community as a whole feels that way. You then go on to say, "Never forget that the main plot is the focus of the scenario, and everything else serves to flesh out the world and offer a break from the general plotline." Again, this is what we just had a huge debate about, in another thread, and no consensus was reached that plot is the overriding consideration. Creator, yes Drakefyre is indeed entitled to his own opinion, and I doubt anyone here would dispsute that. However, I don't believe an article ostensibly dealing with the proper way to design a scenario is the best vehicle for expressing that opinion. I would hope article authors would strive to take an unbiased view. For the record, I believe Drakefyre did just that, but fell a bit short of the mark in this particular instance. Overall, it's a well written article that makes some good points. I just think a bit of rewriting to remove some of the more flagrant pushing of one person's view as the "best" way to design a scenario is in order. Now my own apologia : That, of course, is all just my own opinion and can be taken or discarded as desired. -spyderbytes

I saw it announced on the Inside Mac Games site, but not here. -spyderbytes

Considering 1.0.1 is already up for download, I doubt it. -spyderbytes

Yes, I definitely found Kharl irritating, to say the least. I made your suggested change, Isaac, as an alternative behavior based on the value of memory cell 5, and edited the first post with it. -spyderbytes

In the "Item, Special Item and Gold Calls" section we have: short has_item_of_class(short which_class,short take_item) I'm saying that JV needs to add a complimentary call like this: short has_item_of_variety(short which_variety,short take_item) so that we can just directly check for food (or weapons, or armor, or whatever), without all the special class rigamarole or the expensive item by item check to see if there's anything that matches. -spyderbytes

Sure, that'd work. I just (personally) tend to hate having initiative taken away from me, as a player, unless there's a DURN good reason for it. Still, I could see circumstances where there just might be a durn good reason for it. When I get a few spare moments, maybe I'll code an alternative that either waits politely or interrupts, based on the value of a memory cell, and replace the script in the first post with it. -spyderbytes

Quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: Any food from other scenarios will not have the special class. Good point... and YA reason we need has_item_of_variety() to supplement has_item_of_class().

Here's a script for a simple messenger NPC. This NPC will follow the party, at a distance specified in memory cell 4, and occasionally put up a text bubble saying "Psst! I want to talk to you!". If/when the party speaks to the NPC, a flag specified in memory cells 1 and 2 is set and the NPC reverts to standard behavior (as per basicnpc). Pretty basic stuff, but someone who doesn't know how to script might find it useful. Code: // cmessenger.txt// A simple creature that follows the party until his message is delivered. // After that, his behavior is identical to basicnpc.// Memory Cells:// Cell 0 - How creature moves after delivering his message.// 0 - If 0, wander randomly. // 1 - Stands still until a target appears.// 2 - Completely immobile, even if target appears.// Cell 1,2 - Stuff done flag. If both 0, nothing (and messenger will continue// following the party forever). Otherwise when the message// is deliverd this is set to 1. (Example: If cell 1 is 3 and cell 2 is 5, when// message is delivered, sets SDF(3,5) to 1.)// Cell 3 - Dialogue node to start with if talked to. If left at 0, this// character doesn't talk, and will just follow the party forever.// Cell 4 - How closely to follow party.// Cell 5 - Messenger behavior. If 0, messenger follows and politely waits for the// player to initiate dialog. If 1, messenger initiates dialog as soon as he is// within the range specified in Cell 4.begincreaturescript;variables;short i,target,near;body;beginstate INIT_STATE; // our creature is always mobile to start with, so remove mobility check present // in basicnpc break;beginstate DEAD_STATE; // by default, nothing to do here for a messengerbreak;beginstate START_STATE; // if I have a target for some reason, go attack it if (target_ok()) { if (dist_to_char(get_target()) <= 16) set_state(3); else set_target(ME,-1); } // Look for a target, attack it if visible if (select_target(ME,8,0)) { do_attack(); set_state(3); } // Have I been hit? Strike back! if (who_hit_me() >= 0) { set_target(ME,who_hit_me()); do_attack(); set_state(3); } if ((get_memory_cell(1) != 0 || get_memory_cell(2) != 0) && (get_flag(get_memory_cell(1), get_memory_cell(2)) == 1)) { // message already delivered // Just peacefully move around. Go back to start, if I'm too far // from where I started. if ((my_dist_from_start() >= 6) || ((my_dist_from_start() > 0) && (get_memory_cell(0) > 0))) { if (get_ran(1,1,100) < 40) return_to_start(ME,1); } else if (get_memory_cell(0) == 0) { fidget(ME,25); } } else { // just follow party. If we're within range, either fidget or put up a text bubble near = maintain_dist_to_char(ME, 0, get_memory_cell(4)); if (near == TRUE) { // already within range, didn't need to move if (get_memory_cell(5) == 1) { // initiate dialog as soon as we're within range if (get_memory_cell(1) != 0 || get_memory_cell(2) !=0) set_flag(get_memory_cell(1), get_memory_cell(2), 1); begin_talk_mode(get_memory_cell(3)); } else { // politely wait for the player to initiate dialog if (get_ran(1,1,100) < 60) { text_bubble_on_char(ME, "Psst! I want to talk to you!"); } else { fidget(ME,10); } } } } // if we're in combat and the above didn't give me anything to do, just // stop now. Otherwise, game will keep running script, and that eats up CPU time. if (am_i_doing_action() == FALSE) end_combat_turn();break;beginstate 3; // attacking if (target_ok() == FALSE) set_state(START_STATE); do_attack();break;beginstate TALKING_STATE; if (get_memory_cell(3) == 0) { print_str("Talking: It doesn't respond."); end(); } // talking, so we can deliver our message... set the flag if (get_memory_cell(5) != 1 && (get_memory_cell(1) != 0 || get_memory_cell(2) !=0)) set_flag(get_memory_cell(1), get_memory_cell(2), 1); begin_talk_mode(get_memory_cell(3));break; -spdyerbytes EDIT: Changed script to affect messenger behavior, as suggested by Isaac, depending on the value of memory cell 5. If Cell 5 is 0, the messenger follows and waits politely for the player to initiate dialog. If Cell 5 is 1, the messenger will initiate dialog as soon as he is within the distance specified in Cell 4.

Thanks for the list, Newtfeet! I already decided it would be better if my NPC wanted a particular food item in this instance, however. Especially since the NPC is a talking dog (who would obviously prefer meat of some sort--it's a comical scenario so I can get by with such things ) and if I add food items (and I'm sure I will) I'd have to ensure my lists stay in synch. The "any food" was just a compromise I was willing to make if there was a simple way to do it. Sorry you went to the effort and I'm not using it. Maybe it will help someone who comes along after me, though. And yes, I'm well aware of the distinction in interpreted and precompiled languages, and probably should have worded my post better. Still, there's no public call to access JV's private function, regardless of whether one is an apple and the other is an orange. -spyderbytes

has_item_of_variety(short which_variety, short take_item) Just like has_item_of_class, but works with variety (food, armor, weapon, object, etc.). -spyderbytes

Yikes! That's way more work than the importance of this exchange to my scenario. I'll either figure out something different or make the NPC picky about what he eats. I would have thought there would be a simple single call for this, since Jeff is most likely grouping all food together somewhere internally (to facilitate taking some when the party sleeps or enters certain terrain types or whatever). I mean, if all food has the same value for 'variety', he's bound to have some way to query inventory by variety, I would think. It's likely just not public. Thanks for explaining how to do it, though. -spyderbytes