Slawbug

Also, since no one else has pointed it out, never having to move to use your attack is really significant in an AP system. This isn't usually a big deal when you have 8 AP, but if you equip two AP boosting items, you can *always* get two strikes with a bow, or three with Haste, whereas melee fighters will only get as many attacks if they are always standing next to the enemy they want to strike -- which may often be the case, but certainly not all the time.

Quote: Originally written by Nioca: Jeff also said there would not be an Avernum 4. I thought he only said that about Exile 4? But perhaps I am mistaken.

Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: That's a fairly standard theory. I can't remember the last time we discussed it, though. Need I remind everybody what happened the last time we discussed it? UDDER DESTRUCTION, that's what!

Huh. I could have sworn that, too. Are you sure your search encompassed all of the data files? Maybe they used a euphemism for it?

Quote: Originally written by Ulation: Relatively few people seem to get fungus lung. I'm quite sure that E/A 1 talks about death by disease and malnutrition in Exile. Hathwisa nearly dies from some cave disease, and there are various other sick folk, including a whole tribe of nephils in E2. What *does* make sense is that the ability of Avernite civilization to defend against disease et cetera improved over time just as their ability to defend against demons and lizards did. The standard of living in Exile seems to have risen promiscuously after E3 (which makes sense). Quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: It would also mean Starrus was crowned in 851 IE and he was born in 838 IE. When Micah was 81. Not to mention the fact that there's never any queen of Avernum or anything. And to say that Micah lived any longer than that is really stretching it. So I think it's fair to say that Micah was dead for the majority of the Second Slith War. I agree with your conclusion, but doesn't Rone (or somebody) mention that Micah gave in to life-extending magic in order to continue to serve Avernum, while he had no heir? That makes his old age seem less improbable. Magic could also answer the concern about the lack of a queen. Avernum's answer to immaculate conception I guess! Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: You think Rentar doesn't have a sizable amount of lines? She has three games worth! What character in Avernum hs more screen time than her other than Erika? Three games worth, yes, but lots of characters can claim that. The problem is that Rentar's personality was entirely one-dimensional. We never really see anything of Rentar besides anger, cold calculation, desire for vengeance, and maybe frustration. Glantris-Bok's small role in E2 alone was more interesting. But you were asking about lines and screen time, so here's my answer: If you just count dialogue, Solberg might have her beat, as he has four games of full (often rambling) dialogue. Khoth has three games plus a scenario, and Athron and Sulfras have fairly substantial dialogue as well. If you count all sorts of references and centrality to a game, then Micah definitely beats her. Quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: There is never any specific mention of a gap government between Micah and Houghton, but I assume that there was something, since the Council ruled alongside Micah but is not in existence in Avernum 4. Something happened that we don't know about... No, no. Somebody in A4 *definitely* talks about the demise of the Council. I don't remember if it was Houghton or Starrus or or Rone or Kelner or someone in the castle or maybe even someone random like Angarahad, but somebody explains it. A good summary is in this Encyclopedia Ermariana article which, ironically enough, you (Drakey) wrote.

Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: And what is this thing with R-I and revenge? It just makes her look hate-filled and spiteful. Again, a cartoon villain. Interesting. Garzahd, Erika, and Rentar-Ihrno (and also a few characters and sects in Geneforge) all have failings because of their obsessions with revenge. Garzahd's and Rentar's are fatal and Erika's isn't, presumably because she's portrayed as more of a hero. Actually, Erika's is interesting; her obsession precipitates the invasion of Avernum, but then redeems herself by defending it and giving her life to stop Rentar.

Copied from EE, where I just posted this. Perhaps others here will have input. Aimee vs. Linda I think we had this discussion a long time ago... anyway, the fact is that there is contradicting evidence in the games as to who the fifth exilee was. The early games refer to Aimee among the five, while A4 (and maybe soem earlier Avernums? I don't remember) seems to have inconsistently retconned Linda into the early cave magic. However, some of those references -- praticularly the one to her as part of the Akhronath assault -- sound like goofs. IMHO, there is a large mass of situational evidence on Aimee's side. Given Aimee's reclusiveness and her lack of eminently practical or powerful magic, it makes no sense that Erika AND Patrick AND Rone AND Solberg would be so close to her, and would talk about her as they do, without her having been part of the Five. There are also numerous statements like "then Linda came to the Tower"... if Linda had been one of the Five, those statements would make little sense, given that she would have been involved in the Tower's creation and would presumably have lived there since the beginning. And if Linda really was part of the assault on Akhronath, why is it that NOBODY -- not her, not Grah-Hoth, not Kelner, no one -- ever comments on that? IMHO, it's safe to say that Aimee was in the Five and Linda was not. At any rate I think it's a mistake to state that Linda was a member; the evidence is too sketchy. --- Slarty 12:13, 12 September 2006 (CDT) Retrieved from "http://encyclopedia.ermarian.net/wiki/Talk:The_Five"

It's pointless to compare the power levels of most of those mages, because they specialized in different areas of magic . Aimee and Patrick were better scriers, Solberg was a master minddueler. That goes for other mages, too -- Mahdavi knew more about teleportation. That said, Erika was obviously stronger than the others, and Rentar-Ihrno and Garzahd seem to be closer to her level. Erika and Rentar were both capable of transforming entire species of plants and animals in ways that would endure naturally. NO ONE else in game canon has ever done that (except for X doing comparatively simple work with it), so I'd put them above Garzahd. The description of the duel between Erika and Rentar-Ihrno clearly implies that Erika's command of magic was slightly superior to Rentar's. Because of X's work with transformation, his second-to-few capacity for teaching magic, and his apparent lack of susceptibility to aging (shared with Erika but not Solberg, Rone, or Patrick) I'd put him a step above the others. Somewhere in there should also go the dragons. Garzahd was apparently able to outmagick Sulfras; otherwise they seem to have similar capabilities to the best human mages (Athron scries like Aimee or Erika) but more of them. So I'd say 1. Erika 2. Rentar-Ihrno 3. Garzahd 4. X, Dragons (most; not Pyrog, certainly), probably a number of Vahnatai 5. Other big name magi -- Solberg, Patrick, Rone, Aimee, Linda, Mahdavi, Enla, Elderan, and so on. Perhaps the strongest, most venerable liches and vampires -- Vahkohs. 6. Powerful one trick ponies -- Pathass, Mairwen, Silvario, Seles, Thompson, and the like. General mages of strong, but not top-level power -- Kelner. As for ages: The Five were exiled in 776. Patrick didn't extend his life magically, and he survived until at least 823 (maybe a bit more, I don't have the dumps here) even in Exile where life expectancy was clearly shorter. However, he and the others were established mages when they were exiled. I'm going to guess Patrick was about 30-35. I'll also guess that all of the Five were of similar ages, give or take a decade. Given Erika's temperament, I can't see her considering herself a "colleague" of a mage who is both weaker and significantly younger than her. (OTOH, perhaps she was a little gentler *before* she was exiled and cursed and had to fight hordes of demons.) Garzahd is supposed to be of a similar age. X joined the triad a long time after its founding, and at least a few years before 817 (=E/A1). 800 seems reasonable, but even if it was as late as 810, that leaves precious little time for him to have been born in Exile and grow up and study magic. Plus, even in 817 and 823 there were very few children in Exile, and fewer adults who had grown up there. Mahdavi was described as young, I think, though that could be magi-makeup. She doesn't strike me as the makeup type, though. Kelner was young in 817, an apprentice. Silverio was an apprentice in 779, and still spry 45 years later. Apprentices must be young... Altogether I'd say some ages look something like this, circa E/A 1/2, and then circa A4. The Five, Garzahd - 70-75, 105-110 or dead Micah - 70, dead Silverio - 65, dead X, Linda - 50, 85 or dead Mahdavi, Enla, Mairwen - 30, 65 or dead Kelner - 20, 55 Prazac - 5, 40

That reminds me. Was anyone else weirded out when they met the mage named Erika in G3 (in Greiner's Camp)?

The thing you have to remember about the skills is that each one is only good for certain things. That may sound obvious, but that's the thing people seem to not realize. Strength is really only useful if you're using melee attacks, for example. (You need a lot of it to wear enough armor to make a difference, and every character will want more encumbrance at a lot of points in the game.) Similarly, if you aren't using missiles, you can ignore Dexterity completely. There is one big exception, and that is Luck. Luck is one of the most potent and versatile skills. It starts out really cheap, and increasing luck adds to your chance to hit with ANY kind of attack, as well as your chance to dodge any attack. (Buying 3 points of Luck for 4 gives you +6% to hit, compared to 1 point of Strength for 4 giving you +5%. Luck doesn't boost damage, but on higher difficulty you'll want the boost to hit!) It also makes enemies drop more items, which is occasionally useful -- and the cash boost that provides, which can be substantial, is great for missile users. Also, certain skills will get more useful with every point -- Strength and Spellcraft, for example, which boost damage output -- while others have a threshhold of usefulness. Quick Action and Shaping skills become twice as expensive for the same effect once you hit 10, while it's not very helpful to pump Blessing Magic above the minimum for spell requirements.

Close. Actually, Ornks are all descended from the Ornkithopter, who was created out of nothing by the Nine-Headed Cave Cow.

You wouldn't have to be an idiot to make that mistake. The items are only a small shade different in appearance and the names are very similar as well.

Bump, because this has links to stuff people have been referring to.

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: By popular request, I have put Khyryk into the game. Also, items in your pack no longer contribute to weight. Items you wear do. I just saw this thread, and I am once again excited about G4. Hallelujah for good design decisions! This game is going to be great, and I look forward to having many inane, nitpicky conversations about character builds on this board.

ALWAYS EDIT ON A BACKUP COPY. *facepalm*

In the long run, it's a disadvantage to have high Leadership. There are a ton of items that provide leadership boosts (Infiltrator vest, cloak, charm, and ring, and shining shield, for a total of +6). There's also the Charisma spell, which with spell skill boosting items even a Guardian can access without much trouble. There are almost no spots in the game where having more than 8 leadership is helpful. Beyond 10 leadership, you don't get anything terribly useful -- you can just skip quests, and really, who wants to skip quests? There are about 3 places where 13 leadership makes a difference and there is exactly one where 15 leadership makes a difference -- with Litalia. So boosting leadership much beyond 6 or 8, while it may be useful in the short term, is pretty much throwing away skill points in the long term. The experience you get for it early on is pretty much meaningless in the long run.

The problem with Parry is that it will rarely let you block missile (= magical) attacks -- it only gives a 1% block rate against them. That was the bigger change from G2, in which high Parry would block all of almost anything. It is still worth investing in for the damage reduction, but it's no longer the most critical skill.

Actually, no, Felix's IP address(es) will be banned so he can't log in at all from wherever he is. So it would be a good idea to stop spamming, sir felix!

The Fort Kentia worms were a huge hassle for me as a missile agent. I cast Daze countless times, and still had to do a few reloads. On Torment, of course. They had been much easier as a regular, spellslinging agent, because Daze lasted longer and one hit from a spell would take out any worm. I suppose I could have been less stingy with my Icy Crystals, but neh...

Dexterity?

The real problem is that stockpiling enough missiles to compete with unlimited Agent magic + essence pods is doable, but it requires carrying a lot of weight. See my rants about encumbrance in every other thread

Except that there area a kazillion essence pods lying around. ...actually, I don't remember if that was as true in G1. Was it? In G3, I've stopped myself from making any attempt at conserving them, because there are so frigging many.

At first this indeed seems like a good strategy -- but it has a flaw. As a Shaper, it is to your advantage to create creatures at the earliest level you can. This is because of the experience your creations will gain. When you are at a lower level, your experience gained scales more advantageously, of course, and therefore your creations gain more levels. A single chance for seven creations to get an extra level up permanently is better than a single level gain for a PC, since by the end of the game that will have eroded into a small fraction of a level's worth of XP. The exception of course is if the skill points a level up will net you will give you points in a Shaping skill up to 10. However, even when your Shaping skills are not optimized yet, it is still to your advantage to keep lots of creations around. Reducing the experience you gain slightly means that better creations become available when you are at a lower level, and therefore they will be more powerful for the entire game.

One of the main problems with killing NPCs -- like Aiglos -- is that if they are tied to a quest reward, you have to talk to them to clear the quest from your quest list and get the experience (and items, if applicable) as a reward. Jeff's way of having NPCs be attackable is yet another holdover from the Ultima games, in which you could typically kill Lord Brittish without any consequences to the game world whatsoever.

The text suggests the body does not much postdate the evacuation, and these kinds of picayune continuity snafus are not uncommon in Jeff's games. I agree with Dikiyoba. Better to stretch science in a game that already does so heavily than to stretch the writing and the designer's intentions.