KoalaLumpur

There was a thread about this some years ago, but since Mutagen came out I've been trying to add to the Geneforge Wiki. It is currently very partial; there are some very good articles, but the vast majority of the information is about Geneforge 1 and (a bit) about Geneforge 5. I've added quite a bit of the Mutagen specific content, and lots of information abut mid-Geneforge 1 and early-Geneforge 2. There is very little about Geneforge 3 or Geneforge 4. I don't think I'm the only person updating it, but there are very few and I can't manage it all on my own.

In the previous thread, a lot of people asked what the point of a Geneforge Wiki is. I think the main point is preserving, so far as possible, the incredibly rich world that Jeff has created here. There will probably come a time when nobody is playing Geneforge games any more, but it will be easier to preserve this kind of archive. It might also attract Wiki-surfers to buy the games.

And, anyway, it's fun. The Wiki is here:

https://geneforge.fandom.com/wiki/Geneforge_Wiki

Here's a minor thing: the function of the Discipline Wand has changed. In the original, it did damage; in Mutagen, it casts Daze. I admit this feels like a little bit of a downgrade, given what a big deal is made of the wand and how early the Daze spell is available. If it Stunned, that would be more impressive.

46 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

In general, the codex entries for creatures are new and give information that wasn't in the originals. Like roamers are descended from wolves, apparently.

Ah, good point! Yes, these codex entries are really fun. I hope this carries on in the rest of the remakes.

46 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

The term "commons" also seems to be new, referring to non-shaper humans.

I  think that's right, too. Is this meant to be reinforcing the heavily caste-based nature of Shaper society?

11 hours ago, Randomizer said:

The only real lore fix was the location of Sucia Island with respect to the continent. This was to make it fit with the later games.

Oh, I didn't spot this. What's the change?

11 hours ago, googoogjoob said:

Two centuries actually makes more sense, and one century creates other continuity problems. Sage Clois is described as being over a century old, and later games establish that Serviles regularly live to be over 100 years old. But the Shaper inhabitation of Sucia Island is clearly not in the Serviles' living memory at the time of Geneforge 1- I don't believe any Serviles mention having known Shapers directly, the name of the first Servile to blaspheme the Shapers is forgotten, etc. When Geneforge 1 was first made, the later games hadn't yet established that Serviles regularly live to great ages, and "one century" probably seemed like enough time for the Shapers to have passed out of the living memory of everyone except for some Drayks and Servant Minds.

Clois is supposed to be beyond the designed maximum lifespan of a servile (that's in her description), but you're right, she should remember the Shapers if they've only been gone a century. Maybe we can assume this is rounding down, and they've been gone 120-140 years? Janus says 'over' a hundred years. I think it's also possible that modern serviles live a little longer than the Sucia Island serviles. But, yes, basically I agree with you. Thank you for your careful thoughts.

11 hours ago, googoogjoob said:

 

This would not be the first timeline mishap in the Geneforge games: Drayks are established as normally living for centuries. The Drayk Isss-Ta is presented as newly created in Geneforge 2; but by the time of Geneforge 4 (which can't take place more than perhaps 50 years after 2), she's presented as extremely old and decrepit. Then in 5 she's somehow a Drakon, or at least her name is reused for a nonspeaking Drakon.

The transformation into a Drakon isn't impossible, right? I'm pretty sure that that's what happened to Rhakkus, more-or-less. This is a good spot on inconsistency, though.

I played Geneforge 1 a long time ago, and I'm currently going through Mutagen. Something which has always bugged me is the question of the fourth Control Mind on the island. Control Four is famously in the Spiral Burrow (I'm not actually sure what the original use of the Spiral Burrow was, will have to check that on replay); Control Three is in the Servile Warren; Control Two is alive, but mindless, in the Kazg Ruins. But where is Control One?

My current theory is that Control One is the dead mind in Ellhrah's Keep. This was apparently originally a barracks. A Shaper barracks would probably have a number of creations, so having a Control Mind to monitor them would make sense.

Does anybody have a better idea, or does that fit?

So, here's a question. The dialogue in Mutagen is massively inconsistent about how long Sucia Island has been abandoned. Most sources say a century, but others say two. Is this a lore change? Janus definitely says one, and he's a new character; did anybody say one in the original?

16 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

A relatively minor lore change: dialogue in the Eastern Docks indicates that Wingbolts already exist; in the original games, they are said to have been invented in-between Geneforge 3 and Geneforge 4. They still don't appear in-person in Mutagen, though.

This is a really good spot!

16 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

A bigger lore change- maybe: Toivo and his entire "Servile Origins" questline are new to Mutagen. Relatedly, I believe some of the game's pre-existing text about the origins of the Shapers and the Serviles has been changed to be somewhat less definitive and more ambiguous, probably because it's a bit odd to frontload such important revelations into the first game of a big series. (The original Geneforge was, I guess, intended as a standalone game rather than to start a series, and so it had no problem tucking such important worldbuilding secrets into it.)

I'm pretty sure Toivo was in the original game, but you're right, I have no recollection of that questline.

16 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

 

All the extra above/below-level mini-areas are new, geographically- including the ones associated with the upgradable items, the Shapers in the Eastern Docks, Janus, and Toivo's quest. I'm not sure if this was something the original engine couldn't do, but it's certainly something it was never used to do in the original game.

I wasn't sure about this, thanks! I guess that includes the random artila attack below Vakkiri (and Coale's laconic dialogue about it, which is hilarious) and the upstairs area in one of the Roamer areas, as well.

16 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

Not exactly new: the "Quiet Shade" and "Strange Roamer" scripted encounters in the first map of the game were apparently late additions to the original Geneforge 1; they only appear in the Mac version of the original, and, oddly, the WildTangent Windows version. So these have been around for a while, but probably most players of the original Geneforge 1 won't have seen them before.

I actually played Geneforge 1 on the Mac originally, so I remembered these. Is there ever any explanation for them?

Hi, all! I got Mutagen over Christmas AND I LOVE IT SO MUCH. I really hope that Jeff is able to remake the other four games. That sounds like many years work, but I hope there's enough interest in the fan base for that to happen. All the new NPCs, in particular, are fantastic.

However, it's actually been a really long time since I played Geneforge 1, so I'm not entirely sure what's new and what isn't! There is lots of information about the new game mechanics; this thread is more about other stuff. Apologies if this thread already exists, and if so, please link me to it. This is for new plot elements, changes in lore, new quests, new characters.

Here's what I've come up with so far:

* Drayks are not Barred creations as in the original, but require a license which is hard to get;

* The concept of inutile serviles has changed the dialogue for quite a lot of characters, especially the more isolated serviles in the Junkyard and the Winding Road;

* There are four new areas which all have to do with the new Ascended plotline, namely the Inutile Village, the Ascended Labs, Barrens Research and Barrens Bunker (and there is new dialogue pertaining to them);

* The Cockatrice, obviously, is a new creation;

* Thrackerzod and his people in the Eastern Docks are new,  and correspondingly all the dialogue referring to them, and the two new questlines issued by him and Arixy (I'm slightly horrified she's going to want me to kill Rydell, but I haven't got to that bit yet);

* The two upgradeable items and the four underground or overground areas (Pentil Woods, Quiet Marshes, Central Labs, Diarazad)  where they can be upgraded are new;

* I'm pretty sure Janus on the top floor of the Arena is new (he may be my new favourite minor character, sad and disturbing and also really funny; I hope we see more of him in future games, as unlikely as that may be).

Also all the canisters seem to be in different places, and as we know, it's necessary to take one canister in this game, which it wasn't in the original.

Anything else?

This is necroposting, but I know a lot of people (including me) Google old threads to get answers, so I hope this will be helpful.

You can find Key III in the Abandoned Mine in this way:

* Go down to Level 2 of the mine

* In the Southeast corner of Level 2 are stairs down to Level 3; this takes you to the south of the river which divides Level 3 (you can't cross the river if you go down the other staircase to Level 3)

* In the SOUTH wall of the NORTHEASTERNMOST chamber of this section south of the river on Level 3 is a secret passage that leads to a bunch of goblin corpses

* Head south in this hidden room and you'll end up in a winding path which takes you to another staircase up to an otherwise inaccessible part of Level 2, where there are more corpses and you have to fight a couple of shades; Key III is on one of the corpses here (NB one of the corpses is hidden behind another secret passage on the west wall of this area; this might be the one with the key).

I'm trying to work out which bow does the most damage, but I don't fully understand the item descriptions! In particular, the Bow of Storms is labelled with 'Add 50% bonus'. Is that on top of the damage already given in the description, which is lower than the Farsight Longbow or even just a Yew Longbow? Furthermore, what is signified by the '+5% missile damage' for the Farsight Longbow? Does that make the Farsight better than the Yew, which again, on the surface, does slightly more damage?

Never mind, I just found the secret passage at the start. Was that there when I started, or did it only appear when I'd finished?

There is a closed portcullis gate in the Test of Patience, behind which is a box. I've run through the whole Test of Patience, and nothing seems to make this gate open. Is there any way to get to the box? (I have a save from before I started the Test)

Hi, everyone! I'm a long-time fan of Spiderware Software games; I basically grew up on the Exile trilogy (plus Blades), Nethergate and the Geneforge series. I rediscovered Spiderware Software games for recently, and am finding them very therapeutic after buying the big bundle available on Steam. This was a phenomenal deal. There are so far no Spiderweb Software games that I don't like. (Of course some I like more than others, and I really missed the bestiary when Exile was updated to Avernum).

The three current generation games that are not included in that Bundle are Avernum 3, Queen's Wish, and Geneforge Mutagen. (I'm probably going to buy the GOG Avernum set to get Blades of Avernum, too, which seems to run on my computer). Having recently bought all that stuff, I have many, many hours of gameplay before I'm going to need to buy any of those. But I very likely will buy them at some point. (To be clear, here, I don't play computer games as a rule these days; but the Spiderweb Software games are so good that I make an exception)

The question is: when do people think the prices of those three games will drop? What's the timeframe? Don't get me wrong, they're well worth the price. But if I don't need to play them for a long time, there's not much point buying them now at a higher price, if the price is likely to drop in the near future. (Also, does anybody know why Mutagen is cheaper than the other two?)

Hi, all. I just bought the big Spiderware bundle on Steam (I've been playing these games for years, but took a hiatus, so I'd never played the Avadon series). The bundle includes the Avadon 3 hintbook (none of the others, for some reason) as DLC. But I've never used Steam before, so (although I've been able to log-in and have poked around the Steam app and the website and have been able to play the games), I have absolutely no idea how to access the Avadon 3 hintbook. I know I'm probably being stupid, but I've already spent a lot of time on this so I'll be grateful if anyone can release me from my misery!