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Rook

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Curious Artila

Curious Artila (3/17)

  1. Searer tested same as Firebolt Wait, that means I need to check Searer for a shaper... For a shaper too.
  2. Huh, interesting. You're right about base level for a shaper. I tested G1 earlier with a shaper and got 1 for base level. And now I've tested in G2 - also got 1. Tested an agent and a guardian they have 3. 😃 Thought that if so then base for an agent in G1, will be also 3, just checked, nope, still 1. It looks that base levels were changed in G2, and that for a guardian melee base could be higher, or maybe augmentation spell base, and such. However for PC building purposes it matters very little, so I'm not gonna test it. Ok, tested melee for a guardian, base level still 1.
  3. If you look at statistical deviation from formula, it's -2.2, 2.22, and 0.38. Add it together you'll get 0.4. Sure 3 numbers is very low, but still. You're trying to complicate the formula with some percentile bonuses and such. What for? I tested it with 1d1, and it always added 1 with BM, 2 with SC, on low and high numbers. G1-3 works on damage levels not percentile bonuses, even in scripts it's "ab_effect_per_level". P.S. Damage level means another throw of 1d4. Keep it in mind. Battle Magic can't add 1.1768 level and get it to +30. It was 1 additional throw per 1 BM. Spellcraft doesn't stretch 1-4 to 1-5, if that would've been the case, then my 1d1 eventually would've stretched to 1d2 and random numbers would appear. They didn't.
  4. Even if we calculate it your way: (112.22 - 82.8)/2.5 = 29.42/2.5 = 11.768 levels added with 10 Battle Magic (135.38 - 82.8)/2.5 = 52.58/2.5 = 21.032 levels added with 10 Spellcraft Obviously 1 Battle Magic doesn't add 1.1768 damage level, it's 1 level. Or maybe you gonna argue with that? 1 Spellcraft added 2.1032 levels meaning 2 levels. No? I won't be doing more tests. Period. Formula works, meaning changing die size was ok, meaning all other formulas are accurate as well. I will say it again, if somebody wants to prove me wrong they are welcome to try.
  5. Formula: Damage = (base) x (3 + Battle Magic Skill + 2 x Spellcraft + Spell Skill) base = 1-4 (2.5) Battle Magic 10, Spelcraft 10, Firebolt 1 Damage = 2.5 x (3 + 10 + 2x10 + 1) = 2.5 x 34 = 85 Battle Magic 20, Spelcraft 10, Firebolt 1 Damage = 2.5 x (3 + 20 + 2x10 + 1) = 2.5 x 44 = 110 Battle Magic 10, Spelcraft 20, Firebolt 1 Damage = 2.5 x (3 + 10 + 2x20 + 1) = 2.5 x 54 = 135 How is it not applicable? P.S. I've edited previous post... Added numbers from formula and statistical deviations.
  6. agent, level 35, naked, base skills except leadership 3, mechanics 8 target: ornk in Drypeak Testing: Battle Magic 10, Spelcraft 10, Firebolt 1 91, 94, 84, 75, 75, 86, 83, 86, 75, 77, 77, 83, 82, 82, 93, 95, 89, 76, 83, 81, 70, 75, 83, 80, 85, 92, 83, 81, 75, 87, 78, 81, 80, 86, 88, 78, 81, 88, 93, 80, 90, 86, 89, 75, 81, 72, 89, 84, 83, 80 Average damage = 82.8 According to formula should be 85 Statistical deviation = -2.2 Testing: Battle Magic 20, Spelcraft 10, Firebolt 1 116, 123, 128, 126, 115, 109, 106, 114, 118, 114, 98, 118, 108, 119, 113, 127, 119, 108, 99, 113, 108, 119, 106, 100, 104, 110, 107, 120, 111, 124, 106, 108, 108, 111, 116, 112, 100, 106, 120, 114, 117, 104, 112, 107, 105, 115, 119, 113, 111, 107 Average damage = 112.22 According to formula should be 110 Statistical deviation = 2.22 Testing: Battle Magic 10, Spelcraft 20, Firebolt 1 139, 135, 149, 143, 144, 145, 146, 133, 145, 141, 120, 142, 141, 147, 133, 130, 130, 128, 133, 139, 120, 148, 126, 141, 135, 127, 122, 139, 135, 126, 134, 132, 121, 135, 140, 126, 124, 137, 143, 136, 126, 130, 154, 131, 140, 144, 134, 152, 118, 130 Average damage = 135.38 According to formula should be 135 Statistical deviation = 0.38
  7. Cait Slith, I don't quite understand what do you want from me? In a script that applies to Shanti's book in Drypeak, I was adding a code for exp or spell skill gain, which is done throughout the game many many times, so your argument about altering something invisible in a process is strange to say the least. I did write how I've done it, what else do you want? Edited script so the firebolt damage would be 1-1 not 1-4. Launched the game, started hiting ornks, changed stats, hit more ornks, changed stats again, hit more ornks... Again, every increase by 1 in Battle Magic gave +1 damage level, every increase by 1 in Spellcraft gave +2 damage levels, every increase by 1 in Spell skill gave +1 damage level. Is it really that hard to understand? Funny thing about broken record=)
  8. Come to think about it, those formulas actually are wrong. As I wrote in my previous post, the die is thrown as many times as there are damage levels, so what you can calculate with them is average damage, but for that you need to multiply damage levels not to base damage but average base damage.
  9. There is no need in doing thorough testing to establish that spellcraft is more powerful than battle magic, difference in numbers can be easily seen. With those stats it'll be ~40-50 against ~60-70. You see, the die is thrown not just once and then is multiplied, no, it is thrown as many times as there are damage levels and results are added. So you'll see pretty much average numbers every time, and the more damage levels you have the more average numbers will be.
  10. Well, I have one more conclusion I can with all responsibility state: In this thread https://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/16643-geneforge-2s-instruction-manual-is-a-house-of-lies/ you wrote completely unfounded and in some cases simply wrong formulas without any proof or testing and put in G1-2 strategy peripheral. Maybe you got it right for hit percentages, but definitely NOT for How Damage Works. Only game mechanic I edited through a script was die size. Other script editing like gaining exp or stats through a book, you encounter it playing the game meaning it changes nothing. Checked again without using cheat engine, only scripts - same results for battle magic.
  11. After I've discovered that PC Level influences Augmentation spell, I've checked for Battle Magic damage - no dice. Base damage between spells: I've tested Firebolt and Searer in G2 - no difference. The reason I've found it in G3 was because it was added in a script. In the beginning I've been testing without changing the die size with Firebolt 1 and got ~110 and ~65. According to formula it should've been 107.5 and 62.5. I admit it was nowhere near thorough testing. I only did maybe 20 or something trials and on fyoras and thahds. I'm not interested in dealing hundreds of iterations and in the end still guessing the exact formula for damage calculation because one average damage level for 1-4 equals 2.5 (too small to differentiate from statistical error). Changing the die size affects some parts of the equation differently from others: from what I've seen it's very doubtful, so it's good enough for me. If somebody wants to prove me wrong they are welcome to try. As for Spellcraft applying only to maximum dice roll, in G1-3 it's definitely not true. With 1-(1 x Spellcraft multiplier) die random numbers would appear. They didn't. Anyway I just wanted to emphasize that Spellcraft give far more damage than Battle Magic does, non-believers can quick test it and see with "unarmed eye" for themselves. P.S. Large or tiny numbers? Arithmetic progression is clearly seen, why would I test it differently? And I did mention about 10-caps in G1. P.P.S. I was using cheat engine to change skill points. Spell skills and experience changed through book by adding into relevant script few strings of my own.
  12. Tested formulas for Battle Magic damage in Geneforge 1 & 3. Geneforge 1: Damage = (base) x (1 + Battle Magic Skill + 2 x Spellcraft + Spell Skill) Works 10 points diminishing returns cap. Geneforge 3: Here for every spell in formula was added base spell multiplier. For Firebolt it would be 4, for Searer - 8, Essence Orbs - 20, etc. Look in gf3objsmisc script for ab_effect_base. Damage = (base damage) x (3 + base spell multiplier + Battle Magic Skill + 2 x Spellcraft + Spell Skill)
  13. With 1d1 dice you don't have random anymore. It'll be always 1. So now you can calculate actual damage levels added with stats. For Battle Magic 2, Spellcraft 0, and Firebolt 1 I thought to see 3 damage hit, but it was actually 6. I checked it couple more times, it was still 6. Then for every point in Battle magic or Firebolt spell damage is increasing +1, and for every point in Spellcraft damage is increasing +2. Meaning that Battle Magic 2, Spellcraft 0, and Firebolt 1 gave me 3 damage levels and other 3 is some kind of base. Just checked with Battle Magic 30, Spellcraft 30, Firebolt 1 and as expected ornk was hit for 94. Battle Magic 30 = 30, Spellcraft 30 = 60, Firebolt 1 = 1, and 3 base levels. Fractional coefficients detected - 0. Everything else is pretty much the same. No random with 1d1 dice, and adding different numbers to stats checking results. The only way I could've made a mistake is if I didn't find some additional stats that weigh in. Like with Augmentation spell your PC Level adds +1 to spells Max HP. That would be easy to overlook. But when you add 1 point to Spellcraft and see +2 increase its pretty obvious. Then add 20 points and see +40 damage increase and you're sure.
  14. Well, with 1d1 damage there is no averages. If you have say 2 Battle Magic, 3 Spellcraft, and 1 Firebolt, you'll always deal 3+2+6+1=12 damage to that poor ornk. For every additional Spellcraft point it'll be +2 damage, for every additional Battle Magic or Firebolt skill it'll be +1 damage. I've tested further and that's what I've got: Terror damage = (base) x (3 + Mental Magic Skill + Spellcraft + Spell Skill) Healing points = (base) x (3 + Healing Craft + Spellcraft + 1 level if you know Heal) NO Spell Skill! War Blessing - +4 damage levels and +40% Hit Chance, doesn't matter how skillful you are, only duration is increasing. I'm pretty sure same goes for Protection. So there is no point in buying, if there is a book. Augmentation = +(28 + PC Level + Healing Craft + Spellcraft + Spell Skill) Max HP Yes, every stat point will give you whole +1 HP 😃 Those f...... trainers. Don't waste your money! Essence Shield = +(13 + 2 x (Blessing Magic + Spellcraft + Spell Skill))% Dodge Essence Armor = +(20 + 2 x (Blessing Magic + Spellcraft + Spell Skill))% Dodge and +(26 + 2x(PC Level + Blessing Magic + Spellcraft + Spell Skill)) Max HP So for mental, blessing, and healing Spellcraft works as advertised. Also: Melee damage = (1-8) x (1+ Strength + Melee Weapons + Weapon level) Missile damage = (base) x (1 + Missile Weapons + Weapon level) Crystal damage = (base) x (Missile Weapons/2 + Spellcraft + Crystal level) NO Dexterity! (OR Strength) for missile damage. Forgot to test wands. Didn't have one in a vicinity anyway... For those who doesn't know: Weapon level equals your minimum weapon damage in description. Base = damage in description divided by weapon level. P.S. Wands damage = (base) x (1 + Missile Weapons + Spellcraft + Weapon level)
  15. Ok, did some additional testing. This time on ornks in Drypeak, hoping that they don't have any armor. Also edited script, so that firebolt and searer will deal 1-1 not 1-4(5) dmg per level. The exact formula would be: Damage = (base) x (3 + Battle Magic Skill + 2 x Spellcraft + Spell Skill) So Spellcraft equals 2 points of Battle Magic or Battle Spell Skill. It's probably also not true for Mental and Blessing Magic. Shame all those spell canisters actually don't worth much.
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