Unbound Servile

It sais on Avernum 3's page that the game will only be available for purchase on Steam an GoG.com ... so does that mean I cannot purchase Avernum 3 RW from HumbeBundle?

I could post it on Github, but I am not sure it will be of interest, as you state it. Lately, I've stepped down from the concept of a game engine or any framework in favor for classes tuned exactly to my game's needs. I'm making a space shooter at the moment, so animations, for example, are fine-tuned to be applied to moving projectiles. Since characters will move around in space, their movement functions rely heavily on trigonometry, something an Exile-like game doesn't require. I could put all classes back into a framework (because that's basically what a "game engine" is) but whether you will find it of interest depends on what your expecations are. If you expect fancy renderers and full-fledged bounding algorithms you will be disappointed but if you'd like to use it as an example for your own games or experimentations or even use as a framework for your own game, you may like it. I have made a couple of small games in order to test out functions for my bigger projects. One of those smaller games is a space invaders clone in which the basics of game programming are presented. For game programming I use mainly Java as language (i've done some game programming in C++, Javascript and Python too, but I find Java best suited for small games). As a little footnote, all game elements (such as animations, moving characters, ...) are updated from a signle game-loop, with minimal threading, however, implementing threaded animations won't be difficult, since I use an OOP programming style. I would actually advise to whip up a program design specifically tuned to your game in question instead of using an engine, if it isn't a powerful, well equipped one. That's also the reason why I came here, to ask for graphics, because mine was perfectly suited for Exile-like graphics, but the game I'm making now requires radically diffrent classes, and I'm not for a chain of abstractions and interfaces to make it work. None the less, I'll be happy to share anything.

Thanks for shedding some light onto this. E-mailing every artist will not be a realistic job but I've looked up on that GPU GPL license, and it seems I'm indeed free to use and distribute OBOE. I've also gotten better at pixel-art and could soon be able to make my own graphics.

Hello Spiderweb, I am an aspiring programmer who would like to make his own game. I have mastered numerous languages and coding is no issue for me. One problem: I'm no Picasso; even pixel-art graphics are beyond me. However, the user-made graphics for BoE found on truesite4blades/PixleProfusion would be perfect for the little engine I have written. Am I allowed to use those graphics in anything but BoE at all? If so, am I allowed to sell a program making use of those graphics (with or without disclaimers)? Thanks for your time, Unbound Servile.

My sound driver itself isnot corrupted, I'm sure, but it might, indeed, be something the driver does that causes the sound to be played abnormally. But if that's the case, other people would have this issue too, that's why I asked if anyone else has this too or even if a diffirent set of speakers (one built-in speaker in my desktops vs. two in my laptops) can cause this behavior. I have seen on youtube that Spiderweb games may look or act a little different according to what system or machine you use, but the strange thing is that it's this sound only (the character walk sound) that is played abnormally.

-Solved-

Sorry I drop in so late in conversation; I was writing a very long post about Lilitalia, but I accidently tabulatored my text away and I didn't want to write it all again. Even less so since it seems we share generally the same opinion when it comes to Litalia. But, Alhoon, you seem to be a hard-core Rebel, why? I mentioned in another thread that I compare myself to Don Deroceras ( ) when it comes to my allegiance in Geneforge. I rarely expressed allegiance to any faction because I found none had acceptable goals.I did like Don Deroceras does, occasionally scratching someone's back with the intention to gain wealth and influence. It was only a few playthroughs later (I must have played through the entire series 4 times by now) until I could honestly fight for the Shapers, with the intention to bring power back to them. Yes, the Shapers have flaws, and yes, even their strict rules sometimes don't seem strict enough, but that isn't a flaw of the Shapers. It's in the universe's nature that, no matter how tight you build the mesh, one mosquito will always find it's way through. And, to be honest, not so many mosquitos found their way through the Shaper's mesh. Many would state otherwise, but this is only an illusion created by the harm one such mosquito can do. Let's draw the analogy to aviation; many proclaim that aviation is in fact an unsafe means of transportation, because of the existance of many more air-crash reports than reports of any other kind of crash. But this is merely an illusion created by the media. Air-crashes are rare, very rare, so when a disaster occurs in aviation, it will reach the front page and everyone will get to know about it, while the thousands of car-accidents that occured globally last month will be disappear into oblivion. On top of that, aviational disasters are natural to attract more attention than any other kind of crash because they are more spectacular and involve more fire and explosions. Also, don't think that air-crashes are more gruesome than any other kind of crash. They are more lethal yes, but in other crashes chances are bigger that you end up limbless in a bed for the rest of your life. In the end, aviation has by and large the lowest casualty-rate and remains the safest means of transportation by far. The same goes for a disaster in Shaping. There are a couple of known disasters in Shaping, true, but chances that a Shaper goes rogue and starts creating uncontrolled creations en-masse are relatively small. It's the nature of Shaping-disasters (rarity, spectacularity, ...) that causes Shaping to seem dangerous and Shapers to be incompetent because of the occurance of disasters despite harsh precaution. Another misconception about Shapers is that they're heartless, amoral and apathic. This isn't true, and if you're able to look futher than your nose is long you'll realize this. Shapers have no patience at all for misplaced empathy, which makes them seem apathic. Rebels have a much easier, tolerant sense of empathy but they seem to lack the more applied, advanced forms. Rebels tend to express empathy more frequently than Shapers do, but Shaper empathy runs deeper than the rebel equivalent. Also, Shapers try their best to keep a precarious balance between practical accessibility of the Shaping arts, sentimentality and juridical restrictions while rebels attempt to concoct an unrealistic amalgamation of the three. To draw another analogy to aviation, it is impossible to make an aircraft that is as safe, fast and comfortable as a plane could possibly be. Aircraft manufacturers have to keep a precarious balance between those three, making compromises on all sides and adapt to diffirent situations (e.g. by investing more in safety and comfort when constructing a commercial plane). But this is where the rebels fail; they're trying to build an aircraft that can't fly. The Rebellion has (or on some points, had) mostly good general intentions, but they're unrealistic and short-sighted while the Shapers see the bigger picture. Many fans on these forums have compared the situation in Geneforge to the American Civil War and even World War II, but I see more simularities with the French Revolution. And I fear that, if the Rebels win the war, the result will be worse than the initial situation. I fear that the Rebels will sacrifice the wealth and safety the Shapers brought upon Terrestia for empathy and morals that can't be realized because of lacking prosperity. The Shapers aren't perfect, no, nobody is always perfect but the Rebellion will do more harm in the long run.

The Geneforge series have many interesting characters. One of them is Litalia. Madman, realist, psychopath, revolutionary ... she's been given many names and opinions about her vary greatly and this is perhaps what's the most interesting about her. Are you drawn towards her charisma or are you aversed by her extremist measures? Are you intrigued by her ever-evolving personallity and moral standing or do you discard her as a dubble-dealing backstabber? What do YOU think of Litalia? Be it concise, elongated or just TL;DR-sized ... it doesn't matter, share your opinion!

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This is an interesting idea. In terms of gameplay for your TTRPG, I would suggest a World of Warcraft Boardgame kind of thing. The setting of Geneforge 2 would be ideal for this. Each player takes the role of one out of five factions (The Servants, The Barzites, The Takers, The Awakened and The Shaper Apprentice). Each faction has a fixed set of goals they need to accomplish in order to wear off the impending Shaper Council invasion, which takes place after a number of turns has passed (just as in the WoW BG; when the main boss hasn't been killed after ±30 turns have passed, PvP fights will take place to determine which faction wins the game). Like, the Awakened have to complete the Barrier of the Wind in order to stand a chance against the Council, while the Servants player has to kill the Barzite player and the Takers player in order to prove the Shaper Council of their good intents. The Shaper Apprentice player has more of a neutral role; he/she determines which faction to help; what rewards to merit and the option to "return to the Council". This can end the game prematurely and determine a winner according to the goals each player has (or hasn't) accomplished. A faction may wish to kill the Shaper Apprentice player, when that faction finds the Apprentice's actions to be undesirable. I would suggest to include a "random event card" system, with which players have a chance to acquire resources to complete their goals, gather troops to defend themselves, loot to tempt the Shaper Apprentice with, ... Random mobs will be spread across the board, and a roll of the dice decides what enemies spawn. Combat is also done in a dice-roll system, just like any classic TTRPG Lore is an important factor in the Geneforge Saga, so it would be a pity to not to include it in this game. Players have the option to explore unique places, each with a special encounters, loot and pieces of lore. Lore can also be implemented as a gameplay mechanic, a "lore dice" can be added, which can determine the outcome of special encounters. As for character progression: each player starts with a customizable character who can earn XP-points throughout the course of the game. After [number of xp points] have been aqcuired, the character gains a certain amount of skill points which can be invested in skills that can add more dices to your pool. Items can also have skill requirements; heavy armor requires a hefty amount of strength. Let me know if you like this idea! Btw, "NaCl Lily", did you mean Salty Lily with that?

Wow, that was a quick answer, and thanks alot!

Hello everyone, In the Nethergate: Resurrection character editor, there is an option called "Reunite Split Party". What does this do? The description also hints that you can split your group up but how do I do that?

Hey, this is pretty cool. By the way, because of your playthrough, I have noticed that the Mac and Windows versions of Geneforge have a slightly diffirent font and graphics. For example, the natural walls in the Crumbling Docks area look more like the walls from this screenshot (http://www.spiderweb...yourownarmy.jpg) on Mac, instead of the more dirt-like walls on Windows (I presume that you use Windows).

This is actually why I started this thread. Whether serviles are superior or not depends on how you define "superior". Our interpretations clearly differ at some points, but I think we share an overall similar opinion. We both put mental development (such as intelligence) as a prime factor for superiority. Adaptation is incredibly important to a species' survival, but is it a hallmark of superiority? Without going to much into depth, I think it is. Adaptation increases the chance for a species to be "succesful", so adaptation is at least a catalyst for superiority. Personally, I find reason, morality, empathy, ... to be important factors for superiority too, and serviles score high in that area. Agreed, this is a good argument for servile inferiority. It is a pity, a flaw in servilekind. On the other hand, we encounter less servile bandits than human bandits. Some serviles have indeed a tendency to become savage, but humans with a similar urge tend to resort to banditry. Cool Now that I think more of it, I'm not sure if the Gauss-curve is a valid representation of servile intelligence distribution. I think that the distribution looks more like χ^2 (k) with k ϵ[3,6] (density function, not cumulative). So with alot of "extremely dumb" serviles, but, compared to humans, also more "extremely intelligent" serviles. Actually ... I agree on the bimodal distribution model. I would say that before Shapers started mass producing dumb serviles around the time of G4 (and after the "rise of servilekind" in G1), the servile intelligence distribution curve looked somewhat like: f(x)=1/π√(x(1-x)) Which is an arcsine distribution curve. It's maybe a bit of an extremist point of view, but examples sometimes need to represent extremes. I agree. This new generation makes the servile intelligence distribution curve look more like a chi-square density curve (with approximately 4 degrees of freedom). When it comes to intelligence, I think, as I said before, that there are far more unintelligent serviles than unintelligent humans, but more servile individuals on the utter right end of the curve. Since, in a chi-squared distribution µ=k, it is more likely that serviles have a lower average IQ than humans, though.

In fact, reptiles are not an adaptory species at all. There are exeptions but most reptiles have gone through very little to no evolution compared to humans (e.g. aligator). And those exeptions are more prone to adaptation at biological and fysiological levels. If we look at the average reptil brain, it consists mainly of a cerebellum, whose main function is to handle motory functions. According to research, the reptile complex isn't all that flexible either. The reptile complex has also little to no cognitive capabilities; they rely mainly on reflexes with poor inhibitory functions. When I stated that the serviles are exeptionally good at adaptation, I was referring to to the serviles' mental adaptational capacities. First of all, I would not make any statements about a fictional race's intelligence score. Moreover, you calculations are wrong. The standard deviation for Wechsler IQ tests is 15, not 10. The Gauss-curve equasion for Wechsler intelligence distribution is: f(x)=(1/15√(2π))⋅e^-(x-100)^2/2⋅15^2 To calculate how many humans are smarter than the average servile, we can use the following equasion (we assume the average servile to have an IQ of 85): ∫(85,+∞)(f(x)=(1/15√(2π))⋅e^-(x-100)^2/2⋅15^2)dx=0,8413447404 We can also use the command "normalcdf(a,b,µ,σ)". This means that 84% of humanity is more intelligent than the average servile. However, I think that the servile intelligence distribution curve is alot flatter than the human equivalent. This means that the Gauss-curve for servile intelligence has a higher σ value than the human intelligence curve and that there are alot more unintelligent serviles than unitelligent humans, but also more intelligent serviles than intelligent humans. I think this to be the case. However, we can only make vague assumptions about a servile's IQ. I never said that the serviles' magical capacities exceed that of humans, nor did I say that I found servile magic to be all that impressive. What is impressive is that the serviles learned themselves magic, while the Shapers tried to shape in the serviles a barrier that would make them incapable of performing any magic. By the way, in game mechanics, the serviles are still average magicians. I never gave servile longevity as an example of servile superiority, since some real-life animals exceed the human lifespan by several decades, but humans are still the dominant race on earth and I dare even to say in existance. EDIT: The Spiderweb forum text editor apparently doesn't like copy/pasted equasions from Grapher, so I had to type them manually. Sorry if they look messy.

I meant as a race. I think they exceed humanity at adaptation. And for that, I gave the example of the Sucia Island serviles. They become basically the exact opposite of what they were meant to be, without Shapers shaping them. Futhermore they learn themselves magic while the servile brain was hardcoded to not be able to perform magic. Examples of this are also seen on Sucia Island (way before the Magus Complex appeared). The Shrine of Defiance is a sect of serviles who teach themselves magic. Their temple is located near Kazg. They were looked upon as being fanatic and so they were banished to the outer reaches of the area surrounding Kazg. But serviles managed to teach themselves magic without Shaper intervention.

Ah yes, there I can find you:) Anyways, what about the original discussion? Do you find humans to be superior to the servile race or not?

It's merely a matter of playstyle. Honestly, I've played a shaping class most of the time and I like them very much, but a servile just fits my playstyle better. If the shocktrooper fits your playstyle, I think she can be pretty powerful, but she doesn't fit me mostly because of her lack of magical potential.

On the servile vs. shock trooper discussion, I have to go with the servile. A servile can be a very powerful and fun class to play, but you have to do it the right way. If you go wrong on your build, you will most likely end up with an underpowered character. A servile can rely on creations to back him up, but only to a lesser extent. I'm not sure whether or not a shock trooper is as good at shaping as a shaper/lifecrafter (I thought she is not), but a shock trooper is weak in magic and this is where she is a let down for me. I found magic (blessing and mental, not battle) to be unmissable in the Geneforge games. The shock trooper is basically a bulky shaper/lifecrafter with less magic, while the servile is a unique build on its own.

I would say that in some ways serviles are superior to humans. First of all, the serviles' adaptational capacities are astonishing. The Shapers made sure that: 1. Serviles would never be able to practice magic. it is even stated in the games that the serviles' brain was modified to be incapable to practice magic, yet they do succeed in overcoming this limitation and learn themselves the magical arts, albeit extremely hard to do so when no self-shaping is applied. This is also an example of the tremendous willpower that serviles can possess. 2. Serviles were made to be a dumb and obedient species, unable to form unique opinions and complex thoughts. Many serviles become exactly the opposite. This barely requires an explanation. Tons of examples are seen throughout the games. However one might argue that natural selection and the harsh conditions on Sucia island played a core role in this phenomenom. Still one cannot deny that this is an amazing accomplishment. Their linguistic capabilities have also vastly improved. Futhermore, the serviles seem to be capable of a certain degree of reason, unseen in many other sapient species. 1. When a servile forms and opinion or idea, he or she can support it with reasonable arguments. Even the "mad" (prone to interpretation) Takers support their beliefs with reason. Or, at least, those who aren't outright insane, but nobody is always perfect. 2. A servile tents to submit to reason, quicker than any other race, when his/her arguments are proven wrong. Note that Rydell (leader of the Obeyer sect in G1) eventually sees his cause to be hollow and joins the Awakened. Evidence of this can be found in G2 in Ellhrah's tomb, where one can find Rydell's tombstone with the inscription: "Came to wisdom too late". Most humans, on the other hand, tend to cling to their initial opinion, even when it has been proven unsupported, unjust, ... Serviles are sentient beings, with a strong sence of empathy and moral compass. 1. From my point of view, whenever I aim for the faction with idealistic purposes in mind or the sect with most moral ground, I find this with the serviles. One can argue that these serviles are foolish and their cause to be in vain but that is also prone to interpretation and opinion. Anyway, serviles generally firmly and zealously support their chosen cause and try to realise their intents. Moreover, their intents were mostly good at heart. 2. When we see violence or malevolence within a servile, it is, in the great majority of cases, directed towards the Shapers or others who mean creations harm. Note the serviles of Stonespire (Gull Island) in G3 when you play a rebel. When you first encounter them, they mistrust you and are disrespectful, but when you prove to them that you are loyal to the Rebel cause, they show respect and treat you as an equal. I must admit that there are some examples of power-hungry, evil or hostile serviles to be found across the games, but this is relatively a rarety to say the least. In general, serviles tent to be more empathic, sentient and nice than the other sapient species. Admitted, the human part of the Rebellion is also, mostly, good at heart. Other relevant servile facts: 1. One cannot come out of the Geneforge series without having noticed the serviles' ... peculiar olfactory organ. Their sense of smell probably overclasses that of humans. 2. Serviles are immensely cute. After reading a random servile saying: "Yummy, shrooms!", one cannot deny the irrefutability of the servile cuteness. 3. Serviles are excitable, generally social and sensitive creatures.

I was wondering ... who do you find superior: the humans or the serviles?

Aaah, the Ogres at the Western Excavation reminded me of the Serviles ... poor Ogres, I dearly sympathize with them.

From my experience on Torment, the default party setting (warrior, archer, priest, mage) can be a rough ride. Your dual-wield warrior is good, his build is pretty close to what I did. I would give your priest some archery skills and equip him with a bow. I would also replace your archer with a second mage, two mages AoEing down enemies will be your primal source of damage.

It's mentioned a couple of times across the games that all Shaper classes (including Agent and Guardian) are generally referred to as "Shapers". So when a character refers to a previous game's protagonist as "Shaper", we don't have to assume he or she to actually be a Shaper of class. Indeed, sometimes the protagonist is shown in the slideshows, and there he/she incarnates as one of the Shaper (or Rebel) classes, but that's just a graphical "limitation". If you have played Diablo III, you'll notice that the cinematics change according to the class you are playing. This hasn't been done for Geneforge, but that doesn't mean that the protagonist has to be that class that was used for him/her in the slideshows. On top of that, in those slideshows, there has never been given a mention of the visualised class' special traits; when a Guardian is portrayed, the text doesn't state the protagonist's physical prowess, the same goes for an Agent and her talents at espionage et cetera. Scourge of the Rebellion: I came to the conclusion that each game continues on from the previous game(s) but only from a certain ending (canon). That's, in fact, true. Some endings are indeed inconsistent with the start of the next game. A good example is the G2 Awakened ending. Without spoiling too much, the Awakened engineer a defense system to protect their home from the impending Shaper invasion. In the latter Geneforges, no trace is to be found of this defense system and no character in the games comments on its existance or destruction. Most endings, though, fit with the start of the next game.

You can RP to be Pol.