crpgnut

I just found this CD/DVD in my library and I really don't remember much about it. It says Spiderweb Software, so I think this may have been Jeff just helping out another shareware author by printing up some copies on his site. Anyone ever play it or are there any reviews about the game that anyone can point me too?

Cool! I'm going at least 3/1 Int to End then. Maybe 4/1. Thanks, folks.

eaintree, the END isn't for hit points/health. It's so I can spam spells all day long The higher the END, the higher the Vitality. I haven't found Vitality potions to be all that common, though they're not super rare either. This is my one, and likely only, playthrough of the game though. Jeff's games make my eyes bleed, so I'm only good for one shot at them. Fortunately, he makes so many games that playing them once apiece still keeps me playing them fairly often

I like mages So if I go 2/1 Int/End that would work or should I go more like 3 levels Int/1 End? Thanks for the input, folks.

Okay, I'm just playing on normal, but how do I maximize my sorcerer build? I love using all the spells and want to specialize on the left branch, but maybe that's a terrible idea. I know Randomizer and Lilith and others have mastered Jeff's games, so I want to know how to build an awesome spell flinger. I'll probably take the other sorcerer too, so suggestions on party disposition are fine too, if you think that's a terrible idea. I generally put up with combat so that I can watch the story unfold. Curious about the forums too. I've been playing Vogel games since Exile 1, but show a join date of 2002. Exile came out before that, didn't it?

Originally Posted By: FnordCola I think Jeff makes a good point in his blog about "addiction-based design." When I acquire shinier loot, new skills, and so on, it makes me feel like I've accomplished something. This is the allure for me. There is a downside to having lots of random loot though and that is save/reload. I can waste hours in some games just trying to get good loot rolls out of a dungeon. I kinda like the idea of a hybrid system but I think that there needs to be more random loot than what we saw in Avernum. I like the idea of the loot being rolled on your first entrance to a new area. That way, reloading wouldn't work on individual containers, but only by reloading and replaying a whole cell.

@Erasmus A couple reasons at to why I buy: First reason, Jeff is at least trying to make the games I love. He also allows a great big demo, which I like to reward. I have a decent job, so I can afford to buy all crpgs, even if I never play them. I do it to support the genre. I'm a critic, so I come across pretty heavy-handed, but I generally get my money's worth out of a Spiderweb title. I gripe because I believe with a little courage, Jeff's games could be so much better. On story being an important part of crpgs: I'm an avid reader. The stories in any crpg always fail in comparison to a book. If I want a story, I read. I want exploration, loot, spells and stat-building in my games. Story comes in a distant 5th for me. I do enjoy riddles and mazes in my games.

I was thinking along the lines of monster drops per se, but all the containers. Avernum has a very limited set of items and I'm hoping that this will be addressed in his "all new" game. The few released screenshots though are showing the same tired old crap that was in the Avernums. The color palette is different but we haven't seen much else that looks totally new. We have 4 classes but they seem to have a mixture of the same skills from the last 10 games. There are two new icons of a spider looking ring/amulet so I have at least a little hope that there will be more variety. Surely even Jeff is bored of the same exact skills and items being in everything he releases. I hope so!

Too bad. It'd be nice to see a MUCH greater variety of items. Jeff's games have always taken a minimalist view and it'd be nice if he would grow at least in some aspect as a developer. It'd be nice to say that Avadon is completely different than either Avernum or Geneforge outside of the story, which is the least important element of a crpg; in my opinion. We've already seen lots of rehash in Avadon though, so I guess it was too much to be expected. Since he saves so much time and effort by reusing everything, I was really hoping to see items get a massive overhaul. There are millions of tiles for weapons in the public domain, so there's no real excuse not to have the variety. Oh well.

One thing that kinda stops me from enjoying a replay of an Avernum title is that almost all treasure is static. Every replay of the game will give you the exact same stuff 95%+ of the time. Does Avadon create item tables or is everything hand placed again?

Yep, I'm loving my javelins. I went ahead and bought some skill from the priestess lady in Dharmon. I had about 8,000 gold so I bought a level of melee and a level of thrown. I think I had bought a level of spellcraft earlier, not sure. 3000 seems a lot to pay for 4 points of spellcraft.

In previous games it wasn't worth getting up your mage and priest spells real fast. You basically don't find the higher tier spells till much later in the game. Is this the case in A6 too? I've got my mage and priest at level 9 and will soon be heading to the Great Portal, after I finish up some sidequests near Fort Remote Control.

Geeze, I should have searched better. This has only been answered a couple thousand times

It looks like that folks don't recommend buying spell training. Why? Does it just not make enough difference in effect? I'm curious because Mass Healing made a huge difference when I moved it from 1 to 4. Should ANY spell be bought up?

Thanks folks and this particular nut is male for those keeping score at home Let me ask you this then: Should I worry about getting dual-wield from the beginning? It seems like it's a good strategy, but you have to put a LOT of points into melee and a few into dex to get there. Would I be better off going blade and board until level 6 or so? I was going with even my warriors being glass cannons at the beginning but maybe this is a bad strategy. I've played up to the Great Portal area with nobody having a endurance above 4. I'm restarting though, and thought I'd get some input from those who've played through 6 a few times.

Is it better to raise attributes early or late or does it even matter? I've played through the first several areas and I've not bothered to level up since character creation. I'm on normal difficulty and haven't really needed to boost anything yet. Does raising endurance/intelligence in the early game equal more hitpoints/spell energy later on? I built 3 cats and a slith mage for my party and took DT for all and EW for the two kitty fighters, PS for the cleric and the Pure Mage for the lizard. Bought enough melee so that the fighters could get 3 points in dual-wield. Bows are really weak, but they're good for nibbling away a few hit points before the enemy closes to melee range. I'm sure this isn't the optimal build, but it seems to be working fine so far. I gave tool use to the priest because he seems to have the least need for points. At some point he'll have to take some mage skills. I gave everyone one rank of priest for the heal spell. Any tips?

I've been kind of a harsh critic of Mr. Vogel in the past few years and feel that I should give credit where credit is due. I'm really enjoying Avernum 6, after basically skipping Avernum's 4&5. Jeff does offer a type of gameplay that isn't available anywhere else. I just need about a 3 year break in between games I guess. To me, there is way too much repetition in storylines, graphics, skills, etc. in all his games. BUT, if you skip 3 years between games, then the repetition isn't as noticeable. I'm looking forward to Avadon, because while there is still a ton of rehashing of graphics, at least the story will be completely new. No recurring characters. Yay!

Radix, I like the Saga of Recluse. It is basically the same story told over and over. I agree that the author tells his story very well though. I'd love to see Jeff make something with someone else's engine. I've said this before, but I'd love to see Jeff work with Josh Ritter. Jeff loves EQ and Minions of Mirth is a EQ-like game made with the Torque engine.

@Ephesos The point should be obvious. I'm not paying for leftovers. Jeff's games have become leftovers. I loved the earlier games but he keeps making the same thing over and over again. I want a new dish. Stay away from Busch stadium! You might see me :-) If you love Jeff's retreads, you might like a series of books by L.E. Modesitt Jr. It's called Saga of Recluce and almost every book is exactly the same. Give 'em a go.

I just perused a few pages of topics, but it seems like Jeff's fanbase is getting very tired of the same old same old. Old graphics, same stories, same characters, same skills, same lands, etc. I admit that I never bothered with A4 even though I'm a longtime Spiderweb fan. Until I see something totally new, I'm avoiding Spiderweb games. How did Avernum 4 do? Did it sell well for Jeff? I really hope it bombed. Not to harm Jeff, but to wake him up and show him that his stuff is getting really stale. If he can't afford to buy/make new graphics and sound, and if his writer's block is so bad he can't think of anything new, it might be time to just hang it up. Does anyone really want a Avernum 5 or Geneforge 4? If so, seek some counseling.

Add me to the "didn't finish even once" list. I just got bored with the story. The enchanted anvil didn't do much for agents, that I could see. I'm hoping that Jeff changes a few things before making any more games. They're getting to be a maze of twisty passages, all alike.

Don't worry NanaBanana, Jeff's games are very fun when you're new to them. For most of us though, the games are all starting to feel like, "been there, done that". I've played every game that Jeff has made and registered most of them. Sequels are what seems to be killing my interest. I'd rather see completely different storylines even if Jeff uses the same graphics over and over. Geneforge was really cool the first game, kinda old by the second, and monotonous in this game. It also hurts that you have the same spells, classes, etc in each game. I was hoping for real stealth choices this time, but they don't really exist. Does anyone else miss secret doors? I love those!

Thanks, Mok. I'll probably just stop playing Geneforge. I got my money's worth out of it. I'm not really interested enough in the plot to finish the game. I may start over again in a few months and play at a higher difficulty level. That may be the ticket to keeping the game challenging enough to get through the, to me, very familiar and kinda boring storyline. I'm hoping that Avernum 4 introduces stronger character choices for mid-to-late game players. If there was something along the lines of class promotions or prestige classes that might keep my interest level high enough to finish the game. I rarely finish one of Jeff's games but I always enjoy them

I'm running into the same problem with Geneforge 3 that I ran into in G2. I'm getting bored a little over halfway through the game. I'm playing a solo agent as many people here do, yet I find that most cannisters and equipment upgrades are for Shapers or Guardians. It seems like there is nothing to use the Enchanted Anvil's for to upgrade an Agent. I'd say over half of the cannisters are also for Shapers. The plot is almost exactly the same as it was in 1 and 2. I've played that game twice already and it's getting thin. I've also noticed that ingredients are almost always worth more than the finished product that gets created. I found someone who will train a rebel agent finally, but they want several thousand to train me because I'm already highly skilled in magic. If the cost of items made on an enchanted anvil were multiplied by a factor of 10 then there might be a reason for my agent to go to the bother of creating the items. As it is, I just collect all the junk and carry it from island to island when I leave. If I keep playing I may enchant all the acid protection stuff before tackling the Purification Plant. Part of the problem is that I'm supporting the rebels but I don't really like them. As I play the story I feel that the shapers need to be knocked down a peg or two. The methods being used by Litalia and crew though seem over the top. I keep hoping a 3rd party will become available. One that is against the shapers but also against the methods being used by Litalia. Does this ever happen or are there only two factions in the whole game?

I'm in the middle of the third island and still haven't found enchanting items to be necessary at all. I always seem to find better equipment than what can be enchanted. I'm starting to get some nicer stones but haven't found the battles to be tough enough to need good equipment. I'm thinking that because I'm playing on normal as an agent that I could probably walk around naked for the rest of the game except for items that enhance spell skills. I still wear the Artila tunic that I found on the first island. I haven't raised melee or shaping skills at all. I have 2,2,1,0 in combat skills. The 1 is because of some cannister that gave me a free action point. The only tough battle I've had so far is against the Golem that is in the Darkstone mines. It was quite a game of hit with Searer and run with speed.