Suspicious Vlish

Mega-different.

The plot and the maps are the same, but the experience is totally different. The gameplay is the major difference. The spell system in Avernum has been mangled, as well as the alchemy (do NOT call it potions...).

I'd play Exile first. That's what I done (had no choice, Avernum wasn't out when I played Exile).

I'm old school, and prefer Exile over Avernum. Call me crazy, but nothing beats the original (and being able to wield two dual waveblades dipped in killer poison).

I have always been, and always will be, a Drayk fan. They have been solid creations throughout the entire series. Pity that the Drakkons order them around. Down with the Drakkons!

Does anyone here think that the difficulty of GF 3 is higher than that of GF 1 and 2? It's pretty tough of the first two isles, but then the difficulty soars when you reach Dhonal's Isle, in my opinion.

 

I'm not complaining. In fact, it's good that Jeff has made a game which tests my intellect, strategy, and resolve.

I've almost finished the game as a loyalist, but I couldn't resist looking.

Ohh boy, that is quite a depressing (yet realistic) ending. I like it!

As they said in Geneforge 1, you can't unring a bell. It would be obscene for Jeff to create a 'nice' ending for the Loyalists, since the infection has spread to far. For better or worse, the Geneforge and its secrets have been discovered by the rogues. The Shaper Council reacted poorly when they first realized the danger of the Geneforge. They should have destroyed it immediately...

In Geneforge 4, the only way I can see the Shapers gaining an upper hand is by mimicking the Barzites. Use the forbidden knowledge. Perhaps then they could control it, and ensure that it doesn't get out of hand. Or perhaps it would consume them...

Better to consume yourself, than be eaten by Ur-Drakkons. That's just my opinion.

That statement is 100% true for the Drakkons, who only wanted power and revenge. Congrats to the guy who mentioned 'Animal Farm', since the Drakkons definitely remind me of Napoleon. In fact, the slow migration from creation rights in GF 1, to the abuse of creations to fight the 'enemy' in GF 2, reminded me of the slow migration to facism/tyranny in Animal Farm.

However, I think that Lilita and Master Hoge did want justice and equality for serviles. The canisters merely made them more dispassionate (like Phariton in GF 2). It would have taken a lot of strength, courage and determination to turn your back on an ancient establishment which could kill you for your treachery. And will they TRULY be rewarded for it? To the GF veterans here, remember the Taker ending for GF 2. People like Lilita and Master Hoge may be respected and even accepted by the Creations they fight for, but deep down, they are still Shapers. The Creations will always remember that.

Although people are bound to disagree, I think that Master Hoge, and especially Lilita, are not really responsible for their actions. Those canisters are like drugs which strip away their humanity... how were they meant to know that until it was too late?

Hmmmm... the Drakkons addicted Lilita and Master Hoge to the canisters, so that they could have them in the palm of their hands. Clever. By the time Hoge and Lilita had their doubts about the power mad Drakkons, it was too late to walk away. Loyalists don't give canisters.

This is why I hate playing as the Rebels. The Drakkons are not only more evil in my opinion, but also more manipulative.

Question 1: Can I find Create Drayk on Dhonal's Isle???

 

Question 2: I've noticed a difference between GF 2, but I need to have it confirmed. If I want 4 in a particular skill, can I use two canisters first and THEN train to reach 4 in skill level? In Geneforge 2, you couldn't do this (had to train to skill 2 first, and then use canisters), but I think I done that with the spell 'Heal'. I brought one level, read a spellbook, and then brought another.

 

3. Is it possible to get more than 4 in Create Fyora? I can create Battle Alpha's and Glaahks, but I've always had a soft spot for the humble fyora. 8 essence, and they really pack a punch. If so, where do I find the canisters/spellbooks?

 

Thoughts:

It seems the Cyroa is far more powerful and useful than in GF 2 and GF 1. I was wasting Vlish and another annoyances on the second isle, whereas my pet Vlish weren't dishing out much hurt (yes yes, I know that magic Creations don't do much damage to other magic creations.)

 

60 Essence points for a Glaahk. What the...?!?! When I saw that, I was rightfully mad. My favourite Creation has been nerfed (no stunning against battle creations), and costs far more.

I feel that the Loyalist Shapers have the moral high ground, for many reasons.

 

1. The Shapers have brought life to countless places. Their main work basically includes making new colonies which are pleasant to live in. They try to turn deserts into paradise.

 

2. Yes, the Shapers are very restricting, but now we see why such a policy is necessary. Human mages complain about the restriction on magick, yet we see the results of not restricting that power in GF 2 and GF 3.

 

3. The Shapers may have a bad attitude towards Creations, but it IS improving. In Geneforge 1, you visit an Arena. It mentions that once creations used to fight in the Arena, but it was banned due to being 'inhumane'.

 

4. In Geneforge 3, the entire aim of the Loyalists is to kill rogues. In fact, a true shaper will eliminate rogues, not matter what.

 

However, the Rebels have no qualms against placing rogues where ever they want, even if the rogues kill indiscriminately.

 

5. It is quite clear that the Rebel leaders have no noble intentions. They are merely power mad.

 

The Shaper Council are dictators, perhaps, but the leader Drakkons are warlords. What is the difference? The Shaper Council seems to at least be partially concerned about the civilizations they control. The Drakkons only care about personal power.

Walter:

You didn't make a mistake. You can get one point of create thahd from the mage at South End, AND one point from the testing ground. Hence, you can have nasty thahd shades which are difficult to hit.

 

The battle creations have sure been ramped up in this game. Thahd Shades evade attacks, Clawbugs seem tougher, and Rotgroths are very endurable.

That's actually quite weird, Rosie. I've played through Geneforge 1 a thousand times, and never had that problem!

 

I wouldn't throw those living tools away... you can most likely use them somewhere else.

 

Do you have the spell 'Unlock'? Perhaps that will work.

 

As to the message 'living thing will behave differently', that should have NOTHING to do with the living tool. That tells me that you hit a switch which affects turrets/pylons/mines.

I go back there when I have brought 2 in Artila, Thahd and Heal. I can make strong Thahd Shades (4 points in Create Thahd) when I'm on the second island... w00t!

And fyoras/cyroas rock in this game. On torment, I totally cleaned house with just fyoras on the first island, and a fyora and cryoa on the second island.

I found Geneforge 1 to be the most enjoyable. I don't like the 'new' creations you make/fight... they are unimaginative and overpowered.

 

I long for the days when Drayks were at the top of the pecking order.

That's harsh. In his defense, the 'search' function is quite difficult to find on this board. Even I had trouble, although I was quite aware it had one (every forum has one).

Perhaps something as important as the 'search' link shouldn't be in microfont, located at the very upper lefthand corner of the page, where no one looks. I'm not blaming you for that, DV, just venting a long-held grudge about search functions on forums which are d*** hard to locate (after all, one cannot search for the search function).

EDIT BY KEL: Even mild swearing is technically against the rules.

An all out war between Drayks and Drakkons would sure be interesting. Drayks seem to have quite a bit of resentment towards Drakkons.

 

Another possible scenario I would love to see is a bloodthirsty race from across the sea, who are proficient technologically (guns, cannon, golems) invading. Perhaps they use 'twisted' magick relying on death.

 

For the first time, Shapers and serviles would have to unite to fight a common foe. There would be division in the Shaper council on whether to use canisters, and arm serviles.

It was in Geneforge 2... you got it in Medab for discovering the cure for the servile disease.

Do you use the rest on intelligence?

Stun doesn't come into effect until the round after, I've noticed...

Contra:

 

Total nonsense. If you did this, you would sacrifice the Guardian's major feat, which is massive melee damage. A Guardian can shape, but nowhere near as good as a Shaper. I have made a shaper Guardian, and he sucked.

 

Student of Trinity:

Only three... you only get three attacks per round, max.

I would like to see a 'prequel' to Geneforge 1. Perhaps from Trajkov's perspective...

How much damage can a single Guardian do per round? About 1500 (being generous, if they have three attacks.) A Shaper could do about the same with blessed, hasted Drayks (you assume such a high level of Parry and Melee, so I assume a high level of Intelligence and Fire Shaping).

Also, the amount of HP's a guardian can have at higher levels dwindles... You can have 3600 HP in Drayks...

Even better, a Rotgroth with Parry...

And good luck parrying an Eyebeast/Gazer.

They actually aren't too bad. You can learn to shape good creations REAL cheap early on. In fact, being a Loyalist is the cheapest way to get Drayks. Being a Loyalist allows you to get Drayks earlier than you usually would be able to.

And Drayks are the ROXXORZ!

Barzites are the best...

I disagree. I think that Shapers start out the weakest, but end up by far the strongest.

 

Shapers are rarely hit. Augmentation and Essence Armour also help.

 

How is this a weakness? Yes, the Shaper can't fight for himself, but his 'pets' do a far better job at fighting than a guardian or agent. In fact, I would say that the Shaper's 'weakness' of having to summon pets is in fact his greatest strength.

 

Shaper's can do the most damage against a single target. A blessed hasted agent with three attacks per round could do about 750 damage to one target with kill. Guardians hit for about 400-600 damage, assuming quick action is successful.

A Shaper with 4 blessed, hasted Drayks with two attacks per round each could do about 1,200 damage (assuming each fire ball hits for 120 damage, although my Drayks have reached 200 damage with fireballs). Combined with Mass Daze, a Shaper can pick off opposition...

 

Against multiple targets, an agent has 'Aura of Flames'. However, it is very high cost, and cannot be cast more than twice (unless you have an insane amount of intelligence). A gazer (or is it eyebeast?) is able to cast Aura of Flames more than twice, and has a nifty melee attack.

 

A shaper who sacrifices all for his creations is a powerhouse. I hate to boast, but I wore the finest equipment which would boost my creation's status at about level 34, and my Drayk's had about 600 HP each (without evolving them, or placing anything more than two Intelligent Point's in their stat's). That is more HP than a guardian, and remember that I had about 6, so technically I had a war machine with 3600 HP.

And even better, if they are unlucky enough to be taken out, the game doesn't end.

 

It is expensive to be a Shaper in GF2 (unlike GF1, where shaping power was handed to you on a platter), but it is definitely worth every coin.

I'm not necessarily talking about physical strength. More along the lines of who you can 'powergame' best with.

Yes.

To kick his ass, just bless and haste your creations. Try to terrorize the eyebeast. And go into combat mode first, so you are the first to attack.

Drayks are livesaver's against Gazers. Or you could use an eyebeast... fire with fire.

Correction: It's SEVEN canisters. You also get a canister of 'Create Drayk', which is in Barzhal's room.

In otherwords, join the Barzites early, and you get cyrodrayks straight away.

And the Barzites have the best ending. Joining the Taker's does NOT give you power...

Me too! I actually got it the last game I played.